RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord

RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (Full Version)

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luckydawg -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:12:03 PM)
So you want proof that it is a perfect "real marxist" state or something? Its economy is centrally planned. It is a dictatorship, run by A socialist party. It was a USSR client state, now it is engaging in small degrees of economic liberation. BAATH Arab Socialism, is Arab Socialism. Notice you are not demanding proof that Libya is a socialist nation. Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, is of course socialist, and was a client of the USSR. Are you also pretending Iran isn't fascist?

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:22:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg So you want proof that it is a perfect "real marxist" state or something? Yes. Find some. If you're claiming that they're Marxists, that would be a good start. quote: Notice you are not demanding proof that Libya is a socialist nation. No, I'm demanding proof that it's a Marxist nation. That was a Marxist symbol on that poster, not a socialist one. A state's ruling party can call itself anything, and most of the time it's full of shit. The fact that the USSR used to be propping somebody up is more proof that they definitely aren't Marxists than that they are. quote: Are you also pretending Iran isn't fascist? Given that they're a fundamentalist Muslim theocracy, run in a manner that rather predates fascism, yes. They're certainly not Nazis, as the whole country would have been gassed by now if they were. Again, that's a Nazi symbol on the poster, not a general fascist one.

luckydawg -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:35:55 PM)
uh moon, the hammer and sickle is the USSR symbol. Not marx's symbol. I am not aware that Marx had a logo. You are going off into perfect land.... have fun. so no marxists ever existed because they are not perfect...your just being stupid. Have fun with that. I took the facist symbol to refer to facism. so I guess since to you the symbols have no relevance at all, you would find no state has them as characteristics. Just you being stupid. In the real world the symbols mean Socialist, Fascist, Hippie and Islamic. Given those meanings there are certainly Fascist and Socialist Islamic states. If you wish to insist the Symbols have no meaning, then I guess you are right. "Twue Marxists" notwithstanding

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 0bama and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:44:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: It will be a joy, however, to see the effect of $5 gasoline on his approval ratings. Can anyone say "Drill, Baby Drill!!!" If you think more domestic drilling will bring down the cost of U.S. gasoline, then your understanding of global economics is even more simplistic than I suspected. Im not sure what your point is. The cost of crude would certainly go down. Are you saying more refineries are needed before it would bring down the cost of the end product?

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:48:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg uh moon, the hammer and sickle is the USSR symbol. Not marx's symbol. I am not aware that Marx had a logo. It was a Marxist symbol which the USSR adopted as their flag, because they were claiming to be Communists. Plenty of other people have used it. (From somebody who's been bitching about research and misinformation, that's utterly pathetic.) quote: You are going off into perfect land.... have fun. so no marxists ever existed because they are not perfect...your just being stupid. Have fun with that. Plenty of Marxists have existed. None are running Syria or Libya though, I'm afraid. quote: I took the facist symbol to refer to facism. It's a specifically Nazi symbol. The fascist symbol (googles fasces) is completely different. quote: so I guess since to you the symbols have no relevance at all, you would find no state has them as characteristics. The swastika has a very specific historical significance, as a matter of fact. But good luck finding a middle eastern state full of semitic nazis. quote: In the real world the symbols mean Socialist, Fascist, Hippie and Islamic. No, they mean Marxist/Communist, Nazi, CND and Islamic. (I haven't even mentioned the trouble you'll have finding an islamic state in favour of nuclear disarmament at the moment...) quote: Given those meanings there are certainly Fascist and Socialist Islamic states. So why can't you cite any? quote: If you wish to insist the Symbols have no meaning, then I guess you are right. In fact, the symbols have very specific historical meanings, which you're choosing to ignore. Which is why I took issue with the bullshit you were spouting in the first place.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 0bama and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Any increase in supply lessens price. That's an incredibly naive and ridiculous thing to say. You seriously do not understand anything at all about economics, do you? Have you ever heard of something called "production costs?" Have you ever heard of raw materials being part of production costs?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:50:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Of course real democratic Socialism doesn't (and never has nor will) exist. What would you call the US that the far left envisions?

mnottertail -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 12:59:22 PM)
The polar opposite of the one the far right envisions. Both of which, eminently not gonna happen.

slvemike4u -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 1:01:34 PM)
And neither of which actually "exist" outside of the imagination of idiots.

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 1:02:00 PM)
I dunno about that. They did have a few anarcho syndicalist* communes in the Ukraine before the Bolsheviks started to consolidate and wiped them all out, didn't they? Running a whole country that way would be a neat trick, though... *(Kropotkinist, back then)

Politesub53 -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (1/31/2011 1:32:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg uh moon, the hammer and sickle is the USSR symbol. Not marx's symbol. I am not aware that Marx had a logo. You are going off into perfect land.... have fun. so no marxists ever existed because they are not perfect...your just being stupid. Have fun with that. I took the facist symbol to refer to facism. so I guess since to you the symbols have no relevance at all, you would find no state has them as characteristics. Just you being stupid. In the real world the symbols mean Socialist, Fascist, Hippie and Islamic. Given those meanings there are certainly Fascist and Socialist Islamic states. If you wish to insist the Symbols have no meaning, then I guess you are right. "Twue Marxists" notwithstanding The Swastika ( In terms of this debate ) refers to the Nazi party. Some will say fascists but thats also a term which could apply to any authoritarian state. The Hammer and Sickle is the symbol of the USSR, but you are confusing socialism with communism, which is the correct term. The Cresent Moon Flag predates Islam by over a thousand years (The Swastika goes back further) If anything both are seen to be pagan symbols. It is probably so widespread due to the influence of the Ottoman Empire, but not all Islamic countries use it. As for the hippy flag, as a right wing hippie you should know that symbol is used by the peace movement, going back to the Alderston marches. Incidentally I always found the terms right wing and hippy an oxymoron. As for suggesting social democracies dont exist........ Here is a clue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_International#Member_parties

DomYngBlk -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 5:48:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Truckin', actually the administration is supporting Mubarak. Did you see VP Joe Biden on the news the other day? "Mubarak is not a dictator!" And Hillary Clinton is backing him up with all her chortling. So, we have the Obama administration backing up a dictator with $Billions of Taxpayer Dollars and most Americans on the side of the protestors. Should (we) get involved, of course not!!! So the administration should just come out and say Mubarak should be depsosed without trying to influence a non violent transition to a new Gov't. You'd be then fine with destabilizing one of the main counterbalancing forces in the Middle East. What do you think Isreal would do then? If a new Gov't came into Egypt and started bombing Isreal.....would you support Isreal or Egypt? It ain't that simple, pops.

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 5:54:01 AM)
I doubt poopey would support either: he resents his tax dollars going to Israel as foreign aid, doesn't he?

luckydawg -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:24:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg uh moon, the hammer and sickle is the USSR symbol. Not marx's symbol. I am not aware that Marx had a logo. You are going off into perfect land.... have fun. so no marxists ever existed because they are not perfect...your just being stupid. Have fun with that. I took the facist symbol to refer to facism. so I guess since to you the symbols have no relevance at all, you would find no state has them as characteristics. Just you being stupid. In the real world the symbols mean Socialist, Fascist, Hippie and Islamic. Given those meanings there are certainly Fascist and Socialist Islamic states. If you wish to insist the Symbols have no meaning, then I guess you are right. "Twue Marxists" notwithstanding The Swastika ( In terms of this debate ) refers to the Nazi party. Some will say fascists but thats also a term which could apply to any authoritarian state. The Hammer and Sickle is the symbol of the USSR, but you are confusing socialism with communism, which is the correct term. The Cresent Moon Flag predates Islam by over a thousand years (The Swastika goes back further) If anything both are seen to be pagan symbols. It is probably so widespread due to the influence of the Ottoman Empire, but not all Islamic countries use it. As for the hippy flag, as a right wing hippie you should know that symbol is used by the peace movement, going back to the Alderston marches. Incidentally I always found the terms right wing and hippy an oxymoron. As for suggesting social democracies dont exist........ Here is a clue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_International#Member_parties So according to your list...Egypt is a social democracy.....as is Lebanon, and Pakistan..... good grief. So polite Sub thinks Egypt is a Social Democracy. What a God Damn Idiot. Justa troll who is arguing with me, because I am me. He is an idiot who would argue that water isn't wet if I said it was. Just a dumb fat troll. Not all authoritarian states are fascist. That is simply a fact.

luckydawg -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:30:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg uh moon, the hammer and sickle is the USSR symbol. Not marx's symbol. I am not aware that Marx had a logo. It was a Marxist symbol which the USSR adopted as their flag, because they were claiming to be Communists. Plenty of other people have used it. (From somebody who's been bitching about research and misinformation, that's utterly pathetic.) quote: You are going off into perfect land.... have fun. so no marxists ever existed because they are not perfect...your just being stupid. Have fun with that. Plenty of Marxists have existed. None are running Syria or Libya though, I'm afraid. quote: I took the facist symbol to refer to facism. It's a specifically Nazi symbol. The fascist symbol (googles fasces) is completely different. quote: so I guess since to you the symbols have no relevance at all, you would find no state has them as characteristics. The swastika has a very specific historical significance, as a matter of fact. But good luck finding a middle eastern state full of semitic nazis. quote: In the real world the symbols mean Socialist, Fascist, Hippie and Islamic. No, they mean Marxist/Communist, Nazi, CND and Islamic. (I haven't even mentioned the trouble you'll have finding an islamic state in favour of nuclear disarmament at the moment...) quote: Given those meanings there are certainly Fascist and Socialist Islamic states. So why can't you cite any? I have already done so. Syria and Iran quote: If you wish to insist the Symbols have no meaning, then I guess you are right. In fact, the symbols have very specific historical meanings, which you're choosing to ignore. Which is why I took issue with the bullshit you were spouting in the first place. [/quote

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:31:08 PM)
His issue seems to be more with you misrepresenting the history of the symbols and what they ostensibly stand for. (The issue of what Egypt, Lebanon and Pakistan are or are not politically has nothing to do with that, though it's worth noting that you've yet to produce a single shred of evidence that any of the countries you've cited as examples of Islamist communist states are any such thing.) But don't let the facts stand in your way: they never normally do, do they?

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:34:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg I have already done so. Syria and Iran. No, you've cited two Islamist authoritarian states that wouldn't know communism if it bit them in the arse. Not quite the same thing.

luckydawg -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:35:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead His issue seems to be more with you misrepresenting the history of the symbols and what they ostensibly stand for. (The issue of what Egypt, Lebanon and Pakistan are or are not politically has nothing to do with that, though it's worth noting that you've yet to produce a single shred of evidence that any of the countries you've cited as examples of Islamist communist states are any such thing.) But don't let the facts stand in your way: they never normally do, do they? You mean the Fact that I never said Islamic Communist. I said Islamic Socialist. And Islamic Fascist. and cited examples. It is truely funny that leftists think changing what was said to argue against it is actually valid. You are dumb as a fucking Rock. Probably are not even smart enough to realise that you are changing terms. One more time I never said Islamic Communist. you are making that up.... Lying. Its your standard MO.

Moonhead -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:37:33 PM)
Post #50: quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg And of course there are marxist and facist Islamic States meeting the requirement of 2 of the symbols from the silly poster.

luckydawg -> RE: 0bama0 and Muslim discord (2/1/2011 1:41:29 PM)
So no where in that posting is the term communist. Like I said you are changing terms. Its how you operate. Lying.

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