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is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 4:50:36 AM

lally2

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somewhere else a thread evolved from the topic of changing in order to adapt to another person in youre life and how much do we do that or are prepared to do that. into - if a sub doesnt change enough to accept dominance then ultimately they are not submitting.

i dont really see it so much as an issue of changing in order to adapt to a person, but, from a subs perspective its more about trusting youreself to relinquish control.

i dont believe we do change supersonically, we adapt for sure. but surely its more about trusting ourselves to absorb the changes that will take place without the fear of losing our identity along the way.

is this a big issue - failure to 'change'. is it really about not submitting. or is it more, as i suspect, more about not allowing youreself to trust the process.

im curious what experience people have had from both sides of the kneel with this.

i know where ive evolved from, but im not going to write that now.

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RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 5:13:09 AM

phoenixmoonn13

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as master doesnt want to change me just let me grow and be happy its about me trusting him which i do. and i trust him in a way i ahve never trusted anyone before ro thought i ever could. He ahd control of me when i submitted (well beofre that as well) and when i did i knew that i was his and the trust i ahd in him and he in me lets my submission deepen to a point i dont need limits or safe words as he knows me and my reactions so well and i trust him with this fully.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 2

RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 5:41:11 AM

RCdc

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I do not know the thread you are referring to, but I don't see how learning to adapt means you have to change yourself at all. It may just be in the representation of the words.

Change can be good and I don't see how anyone could not want someone to change as they grow and learn new things, or discover new things without wanting some sort of healthy future. I think it's naive and a bit of wishful thinking to not expect change in different areas of life.

I'm not so sure about the whole, trusting yourself to relinquish control. That's a hesitance that I cannot understand when undertaking a relationship. I'm not saying that everyone is brave to wade in head first, but if you're hesitant over yourself, then I think that being in a relationship with another isn't a good thing at that time. Sort out yourself first, then find a relationship. I know it's not always ideal, but people want to move into shit so fast these days and it's almost a recipe for failure.

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RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 6:19:56 AM

lally2

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i agree that it would be naive to assume that a person will not change at all through being in a relationship with someone else. here or anywhere else. we adapt in order to grow together here just as much as anywhere else.

what i found curious as an absolute was the assertion that failure to change = a lack of submission. as a bald statement. and was curious what others thought.

in terms of relinquishing control through trusting youreself first, well, i have come across that in people. the knotty issue of trust generally and being able to hand over the reins even a little bit without the need to snatch them back. i dont think thats just about trusting the Dominant. i think before you can do that you have to trust youre inner sanctum. its the whole letting go thing. some people find that quite hard to do. and i think alot of people assimilate that with trusting the Dominant and dont see that its trusting themselves to trust the Dominant thats invariably part of the process. when they dont theres a chance they wont 'change' in this context

which is how this particular thread leapt from 'change within a relationship' to 'failing to submit'

i suppose i just saw it as a big leap because the issues therein are far more complicated.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 1/31/2011 6:20:51 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 4

RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 12:38:09 PM

DesFIP

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To me it indicates a basic lack of compatibility. I'm incapable of changing my core personality and beliefs. If I think someone else is wrong, I'm not going to trust their decision. It's a lot easier to submit if I'm already basically aligned with them. And I'm not interested in twisting myself into a pretzel metaphorically in order to fit with him.

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RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 4:27:17 PM

dreamerdreaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

To me it indicates a basic lack of compatibility. I'm incapable of changing my core personality and beliefs. If I think someone else is wrong, I'm not going to trust their decision. It's a lot easier to submit if I'm already basically aligned with them. And I'm not interested in twisting myself into a pretzel metaphorically in order to fit with him.

THIS!

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(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 4:45:16 PM

NihilusZero

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People are naturally scared of any process that feels like a loss of autonomy or a loss of "self". Everything about us has the potential for change. Some people just become attached to a certain self-concept and do not wish to deviate from that. Then again, that very thing could be said about being slave-minded in such a way that the desire to adapt is paramount.

This really becomes a question of how much someone is genuinely interested in yielding or what someone's potential for doing such is (depending on which prerequisites are met).

From a slave perspective, from within a relationship that is already committed, I find that the difference is typically between someone who still has a tendency to look through suspicion-colored-glasses (in the sense that they are still measuring up their partner to determine what should and shouldn't be done) rather than through symbiotic-devotion-glasses (at which point the trust/comfort in the direction the D-type takes is all or most of what's thought of).

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(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

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RE: is it change or is it trust - 1/31/2011 8:11:36 PM

LPslittleclip

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some parts of my self i dont want to change like my helping nature. for those things i would have a hard time trying to change them as it is so much a part of me. luckly my Mistress enjoys this part of me so no change there. how i greet someone or where i sit with my mistress was a change easily done as it was not a major change in my basic personality. as i trust my Mistress i only question something that i do not fully understand or need clairification to enable me to complete the task

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(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 8

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 2:15:51 AM

CherryNeko

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From: Mexico City
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You didn't say much, but what you wrote helped me get some ideas. Now I have something to do... bwhahaha...

No, seriously. Thank you!

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Before this night ends?
I'm dying surrounded by white flowers
Which scatter in the sky...

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 9

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 9:06:28 AM

osf

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I see it differently than most apparently

when you say someone has gained your trust, you're saying they haven't done anything to cause you to distrust them yet

to me trust is the responsibility of the trusting person as they set the criteria for their trust, not the person they wish to trust

most treat it as a gut reaction rather than a thoughtful choice

when I see some treat others in a way I disapprove of I never think I am the exception and would never be treated likewise

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Post #: 10

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 10:31:38 AM

lally2

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i am following this and thanks for youre input, ill come back and wiffle:)

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 11

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 11:04:38 AM

osf

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Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i am following this and thanks for youre input, ill come back and wiffle:)

wiffle?

sounds erotic

< Message edited by osf -- 2/1/2011 11:05:01 AM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 12

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 1:42:06 PM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

To me it indicates a basic lack of compatibility. I'm incapable of changing my core personality and beliefs.

I think this has hit the nail squarely on the head.
From my then submissive position I always strove to necome what I felt was a 'better' submissive. Looking back it always was a matter of incompatabilty.... my attempt to change myself in order to fit. Of course it's a process doomed to failure as what happened was that the 'inner' me struggled and eventually fought back. Released myself. And walked.
It was not a failure in submission.
It's all a question of uniqueness unfortuneately. A question of two people who are uniqyes finding one another. if you have a dynamic within a compatable, loving relationship then I think you have everything. The submission fits the dominance and vice versa.
I am currently finfing that the one who is submitting to me at the moment is absilutely unqie and I love that uniqieness. And he doesn't jave to change one iota. It's rare and quite beautiful.

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RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 2:35:49 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i am following this and thanks for youre input, ill come back and wiffle:)

wiffle?

sounds erotic

Kinky play with a wiffle ball?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 14

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 3:10:24 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i am following this and thanks for youre input, ill come back and wiffle:)

wiffle?

sounds erotic

Kinky play with a wiffle ball?

dont forget that big plastic bat

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 15

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 3:12:34 PM

sblady

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Joined: 9/28/2007
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In my last relationship, which was D/s based, I adapted, especially as that was my first D/s relationship and I didn't know what to expect. He didn't require me to change anything, though he taught or told me things he enjoyed and I worked on perfecting them, which made both of us happy.

I've had the same experience in my current relationship which isn't D/s based. I never feel like I'm "on" or being judged or pressured to be or do anything. None of what I did or do affected their place in our relationship. I believe it boils down to trust and being comfortable enough to be myself. My service truly comes from the heart.

I can't recall having a relationship where I was ordered or strongly advised to incorporate huge changes. I doubt that I'd be willing to enter into such a relationship, but that's just me. I'd hate to lose myself as I'm pretty awesome. Oh, and modest!

Hope that makes sense.

_____________________________

Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. Dalai Lama

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 16

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 3:22:12 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sblady

In my last relationship, which was D/s based, I adapted, especially as that was my first D/s relationship and I didn't know what to expect. He didn't require me to change anything, though he taught or told me things he enjoyed and I worked on perfecting them, which made both of us happy.

I've had the same experience in my current relationship which isn't D/s based. I never feel like I'm "on" or being judged or pressured to be or do anything. None of what I did or do affected their place in our relationship. I believe it boils down to trust and being comfortable enough to be myself. My service truly comes from the heart.

I can't recall having a relationship where I was ordered or strongly advised to incorporate huge changes. I doubt that I'd be willing to enter into such a relationship, but that's just me. I'd hate to lose myself as I'm pretty awesome. Oh, and modest!

Hope that makes sense.

you can't request or force change, it has to be cultivated

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to sblady)

Post #: 17

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 3:48:02 PM

sblady

Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

you can't request or force change, it has to be cultivated

Absolutely. You're preaching to the choir (yeah, I know I'm showing my age with that statement).

Unfortunately, I ran into quite a few guys who told me the changes I would make to suit them. I couldn't figure out why they didn't just find a submissive with the same kinks, etc. However, I was truly grateful that they were honest, vocal and upfront with their expectations as I knew we wouldn't be compatible.

< Message edited by sblady -- 2/1/2011 3:49:21 PM >

_____________________________

Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. Dalai Lama

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 18

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 3:58:35 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sblady

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

you can't request or force change, it has to be cultivated

Absolutely. You're preaching to the choir (yeah, I know I'm showing my age with that statement).

Unfortunately, I ran into quite a few guys who told me the changes I would make to suit them. I couldn't figure out why they didn't just find a submissive with the same kinks, etc. However, I was truly grateful that they were honest, vocal and upfront with their expectations as I knew we wouldn't be compatible.

I didn't say change couldn't happen but one needs to be sure it is possible before beginning a relationship

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to sblady)

Post #: 19

RE: is it change or is it trust - 2/1/2011 4:08:01 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LPslittleclip

some parts of my self i dont want to change like my helping nature. for those things i would have a hard time trying to change them as it is so much a part of me. luckly my Mistress enjoys this part of me so no change there. how i greet someone or where i sit with my mistress was a change easily done as it was not a major change in my basic personality. as i trust my Mistress i only question something that i do not fully understand or need clairification to enable me to complete the task

No, I wouldn't want to change those parts of you that I consider core parts of your personality. That's part of why I wanted you in the first place. Still, we've had changes. Certainly in our positions in attitudes, if not personalities.

I see what lally is saying here in that case. If you hadn't had trust in Me and trust in yourself, this dynamic wouldn't be where it is today. Part of that had to happen in you. Yes, it had something to do with where I was leading us, but that had to be an internal process for you as well.

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(in reply to LPslittleclip)

Post #: 20

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