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ORIGINAL: SlevinKelevra


Billy Jack...man that mvie was a classic. I know Bloodsport, but truth is, I don´t let him watch those yet. All he´s seen are old kung-fu classics from jackie Chan ( only those in which nobody dies or even bleeds), Power Ranges (all 14th series, LOL) and Ninja Turtles. For God´s sakes, this kid´s nice, good hearted, the most violent game I have seen him play is Tomb Raider and I admit it, WWE, which he watches with his dad or with his aunt.

He´s not going to turn into a bully, trust me, doesn´t have it in him considering it´s very hard to get him to the point of fighting and he´s normally the bullied one. I take him to meditate, watch the wildlife, he loves sciences, astronomy and I recently got him an small microscope, optical one up to 1000X lenses for him to play around (yep, nerdy, what can i say, I was like that too, still am, I am an engineer after all, LOL) and well, I am safe saying that he´d never turn that leaf.

I mean, kids walk a fine line, they can become bullies or victims, some alsh out back at the bullies Columbine style, or transform into a meaner version as a way to balance things and obtain release through retribution. Let´s just talk about the regular run-of-the-mill kid entering his teens or well within them.

They have to be civil, polite, decent and respect the rules in a wolrd where music, fashion, tv and magazines portray images of successful people who ebcome role models so to speak, breaking every single one of those rules.

And then the school system and society is full of bullying predators who just troll the world looking for a new target for a joke, a new punching bag to vent off, use as their own pressure release valve or feelgood button.

We should teach positive role models. I grew up watching Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, and a bunch of others, saw movies with Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Willis, and I didn´t become a bully, nor a victim, there were both in my life, and nobody ever gave me even an hour of detention or a note to bring home for standing up for the victimized ones and fighting the bullies.

Shit, even the victims got help from the Phys. Ed trainers and coaches to bulk up, learn some defense moves, sign up for wrestling or boxing and karate gyms and stop being the victims and yet, we all ostracized the bullies and it worked, bullies either changed their ways or failed miserably in school, life in general and all....

isn´t it the way is supposed to be ?

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Let me get this straight....If I'm not willing to fight you physically to back up my argument, then I shouldn't make my argument??Funny, I didn't notice you offering to fly up here and meet me mano a mano, so, unlike me you don't even live by your own principles....talk is cheap

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While I admire your stance, the only reason such a world view is possible is because there are men and Women who are not above violence to ensure peace.

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ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

I'd have loved to have been there if the shrink tried to hand off that shit to my old DI. 

Instead of citing movie characters, you might ask where this country would have been without George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Jack Pershing, George Patton, Dan Daley, Lewis Puller and Colin Powell.  Of course, if he doesn't recognize the names, it will confirm a lot.

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ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

You seem like a good egg who is genuinely concerned about this kid's life. You have some valuable things to teach him and I think a lot of what you said about what it means to be a decent person really resonates with me.

If you talked to the shrink the same way you came off in this post, my God man you set off every "macho meathead warning bell" in the poor guy's head, just the same way the language and mannerisms he used when he spoke to you set off every "effete do-gooder with no concept of reality" alarm in yours.

Weird as it sounds, in this case it's up to you to be the more versatile man when you deal with the shrink. As smart as he probably is, he's also been educated into a rigid, unchanging worldview and vocabulary. The fact that he lapsed into the language of therapy as a defense as soon as you challenged him gives me the idea he's bright enough to be competent in his field but not bright enough to be one of the people who thinks outside his training and who knows how to deal with all sorts of people. So you're going to have to learn to talk to him. The biggest thing, and the thing that is probably setting off bells in this guy's head, is that you keep talking about masculinity and "being a man" when most of the traits you describe are really traits that are valuable in any person.

The core values of decency and self-esteem that this guy probably cherishes are the same values you cherish. Even assertiveness is a trait he likely values, he just wants to teach kids how to resolve conflicts through any means other than violence and not think about the fact that there are times when things break down so badly you have to fight back just to defend yourself. Almost everyone knows there are times like this, but it isn't his job to get kids ready for the big rumble after school, his job is to teach them how to avoid this rumble if possible.

If he's using Cognitive Therapy as his framework (he probably is) then that is literally based, among other things, on the writings of the Stoics whose philosophy I think you'd find quite appealing. You both want the same thing for the kids but one of you is going to have to learn how to talk to the other, and it's probably going to be you.

And when it's all said and done, the guy may just be a yutz. In which case let the kid go through the motions and jump through the hoops but let him look for other role models (including you) to learn from. Because it IS important that he learn how to stand up for himself, but it is ALSO important he learn how to deal with people using bravado as pretty much a last resort.

Good luck.

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ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia

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ORIGINAL: SlevinKelevra

Last week, my best friend´s son got into a fight at school. The little guy, who´s just turned 11 and is as nerdy and scrawny as Screech, from the Saved By The Bell series (yep, I´m old enough to have watched that show) outfought 3 bigger, meaner, older boys about 13 and 14, 3 grades higher, and sent them home with black eyes, broken noses, some serious hurting on their ribs and belly not to mention a bit of damage to their limbs. It wasn´t unfair, he got his own blows too and sucked up those punches and defended himself....I did invite him to ice-creams, arcades and a movie just because of it.

That´s an idea that works, and this shrink, after asking me what movies he saw, actually had the nerve to say "Maybe the problem IS the masculine role model concept he´s being exposed to, you should try to get him to see other movies and not expose him to such movies or tv series until he´s at least 4 or 5 years older so he can judge" .

What do you think ?

Let me get this straight.  One scrawny little kid had to defend himself against three huge bullies who had the intent to beat the cr*p out of him...and HE is in trouble? 

The school has no problem with a three against one fight?  This is fair to them?  What does this counselor expect the boy to do next time, beg to be left alone while the other boys kick his teeth in?

The school counselor...does the guy actually have a degree big enough to handle this, or did he walk in off the street into the position of counselor with very little training?  Somehow I don't see a school affording a qualified shrink on it's payroll.

My son is autistic and I had lots of run ins with the school and their asinine poilicies.  One time another kid...IN THE CLASSROOM WHILE I WAS THERE..was pulling a girl's hair hard enough to make her fall to the ground and kept biting my son.  Yes, drawing blood.  One teacher and two aids were in the special ed kindergarten class...did any intervene?  No.  The girl's parent and I kept having to step in and rescue our kids.  Did they have one of those aids watch that violent kid better?  Nope.  They merely told him in a sweet voice not to do that, "...because that's ugly."

My kid had to go to the doctor after school and get a shot, and it took about twenty minutes to have dried blood gently swabbed away.  Thank God he didn't need stitches for the three bites to his head, face, and ear.

Now comes the school's solution at my son's IEP meeting.  Yeah, I brought a tape recorder to hear this.  I was told several times that they will change my son's trainings to handle this, and refused to address the real issue.  In the end, when they thought they had railroaded me, I told them what they were going to do.  They were going to get someone one on one for that boy to ensure he doesn't bite or rip out any more hair.  If they don't and this happens one more time, I am going to sue the living cr*p out of them and even go so far as to take away all of their houses and cars.

The next day...the boy had someone provided for him who held his hand or hands most of the time, and this lasted for the entire school year.  Violence ended.

Schools are stupid and will try to get away with blaming the victim.

If this happened on the way home from school, isn't the school responsible?  If they are not, then this was an after school activity that is none of their business.  If this happened at a time when the school was responsible for the health and safety of the kids...how come they let three much older and larger kids engage in a rumble with one scrawny little kid? 

I wonder if the parent could go to the police and swear out a juvenile complaint over the bullying.  One on one fights can be fair, but three against one...nope.  I'm glad the little guy cleaned their clocks. 

My neighbor would be evil enough to call the local newspaper and see if an article will be done over bullying, and about the new and improved steps the school takes to address this issue...and that the answer seems to be to take away all those Rambo movies.

I would have taken him out for icecream too.

...and if for any reason that counselor ever ends up in prison for even a short while, I wonder how good that "don't fight back" policy will protect the virginity of his bottom...

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ORIGINAL: chubbysubbyguy

........ Violence is as human as thumbs and will always be there.........

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ORIGINAL: chubbysubbyguy

I aim to please (that is if you were laughing because it was funny, and not because I sounded like a moron)

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Can I marry you ? My God, my thoughts exactly.....I am sorry if this seems dumb and out of place, it's truly not my intention to offend but what dragon I must slay and what treasure must I find to get a shot at going out for a coffee and visit a museum or theather ?....

Thank you for the compliment.  Alas, if only you didn't live in another country coffee and a museum trip would be lovely.  I meet up with anyone from CM visiting my area who...doesn't seem psycho.

To add to this thread some more...

For a year I worked as a teacher assistant in a Catholic school, and there was a big difference between that school and public schools.  At the Catholic school there were several parents on the playground.  Watching.  If they did not volunteer a certain amount of time per month to the school, they had to pay an extra hundred dollars.  I don't remember if it was per week or per month.  Maybe this school was special, but I heard nothing of bullying going on there. 

In West Virginia, a friend of mine went to a church run school, and there was no bullying going on there either. 

In the absence of adult authority, kids take power.  

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   On a positive side, after the incident, some parents at my godson's school who met me actually told me that they back me up, and that they wish their kids could learn some simple things to stand up. Not martial arts, they were more interested in their kids sort of becoming more assertive, so we have a nice little camping trip coming up, lots of paintball guns and a lot of games, exploration, and such, bringing out their leadership or take charge skills to let them know they are far stronger and able than what they think.

Another thing...the bullies hung out in a pack.  These children who go camping together will probably hang out together more often, on the playground and when walking home from school, and might be less attractive targets than someone being caught alone. 

Glad to hear you're doing this...the boys will have wonderful memories of adventure filled days...