RE: Self-harm and masochism

RE: Self-harm and masochism (Full Version)

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porcelaine -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 12:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx With regard to: ~While someone can be both masochistic and into self-harm,~ that's a complex component of someone's disposition at least looked at purely in behavioural terms. I certainly know of a domme who is a masochist and rather taken to carving herself up in very creative ways. Who is to judge which aspects of pleasure/release this behaviour serves? Prin, I'm positing that it is possible that a person finds enjoyment in masochistic activities. Yet the individual has issues that utilizes mechanisms that can be masochistic at first glance, but may not be processed in the same head space. Depending on how grand the problem is, the supposedly purer form may be drowned out in its entirety. I return back to the purpose of the mutilation. If she merely enjoys intricate carvings that's fine. If she's doing it in response to something that cannot be handled in any other manner save harm that's another thing altogether. Namaste, ~porcelaine

NihilusZero -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 12:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Palliata Ah ok that makes more sense. My mistake. Not a mistake at all! I found myself aligning with that thought myself (and, on a percentage basis would still lean that way since self-harm, in the way it's being described, involves people who use it as a release from something negatively impacting them) but the actions are certainly the same. It's basically our outside perception as to their actions that tend to paint something one way or another. I suppose there could also be something interesting to dissect if someone only does it to get out of the negatives or if someone only did it once already there.

Jennislut -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 12:52:15 PM)
quote: I'm not sure I agree with the idea that kink masochists necessarily use pain to go from 0 to 10 instead of -10 to 0. I've met plenty for whom it's a release of their emotional tensions the same way self-harm is for that crowd. I've also met self-harm 'enthusiasts' (if you will) that do it for the high, the 0-10 as oppoesd to -10-0. Is either healthy? Maybe, maybe not. To each their own. But I'm not sure the distinction holds up. I don't know anything about self-harmers other than one of my frind's sister was one, however i am a masochist. with me it has nothing to do with an emotional release - it is a high pure and simple. slap my face hard and i go immediately go from 0 to 6 - do it hard enough to black my eye, split my lip or knock me to the floor and i am all the way to 8 or 9. it thrills me - like bunjee jumping off mt everest.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 12:52:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I think, (in response to your plucking habit) that we all have habits and part of the experience of a habit is that tolerance kicks in and there is little or no awareness of doing it tagged to the original pleasure. For me, it's less about tolerance for the plucking itself than for the anxiety that leads to plucking. Plucking was never pleasurable; at first it was curiosity about what it would feel like to have no eyelashes. Then it became a way to relieve anxiety. However, the plucking in itself is irrelevant. I could have gone in another direction, such as OCD handwashing, to relieve the stress of my concomitant social anxiety disorder. That I developed trichotillomania was coincidental.

Prinsexx -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 12:55:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx With regard to: ~While someone can be both masochistic and into self-harm,~ that's a complex component of someone's disposition at least looked at purely in behavioural terms. I certainly know of a domme who is a masochist and rather taken to carving herself up in very creative ways. Who is to judge which aspects of pleasure/release this behaviour serves? Prin, I'm positing that it is possible that a person finds enjoyment in masochistic activities. Yet the individual has issues that utilizes mechanisms that can be masochistic at first glance, but may not be processed in the same head space. Depending on how grand the problem is, the supposedly purer form may be drowned out in its entirety. I return back to the purpose of the mutilation. If she merely enjoys intricate carvings that's fine. If she's doing it in response to something that cannot be handled in any other manner save harm that's another thing altogether. Namaste, ~porcelaine In response: I'm fascinated by self-harm. I'm fascinated by the reasons a self-harmer will give, as to what drives them to do it, and also the 'rush', the feeling of release. It's that rush and feeling of release that's not so very far away from chosen or consensual, sane pain. Indeed how fo we define sane pain fron not-so-sane pain? I'm fascinared also, still, by emotional masochism and by how this links to self-defeating behaviours. Too much, to soon, I fear, to open up my own thread in this way. But I'm clearer now on the guidelines between the two.

porcelaine -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 1:25:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I'm fascinated by the reasons a self-harmer will give, as to what drives them to do it, and also the 'rush', the feeling of release. It's like a drug. You do it once and it stems the tide but you'll need another hit or ten to keep King Kong at bay. Pretty soon you find the occasional episode is occurring with regularity. And like most addictions it can lead into other things. So you layer on one thing after the other until you've constructed a sky high pile of nothingness. It teeters and one day you really see the mess that you've become. Or you bottom out. Hit a vein, cut too deep, or have another wake up call that forces you to stop and see where the agony has led. I remember a line from Silence of the Lambs that sums it up perfectly. Lecter utters to Clarice, "Have the lambs stopped screaming?" That's the real issue underneath it all. You can't shut them up and you can't let them out. The scars represent the words never spoken and the tears you cannot shed. The blade is the conductor and the crescendo the voice unrestrained. Your speech is littered on the canvas. quote: Indeed how fo we define sane pain fron not-so-sane pain? I have a hard time finding a silver lining, but that may not be true for everyone. It has been heavily impressed upon me to value my sacredness and to treat my body accordingly. If the activity was not at the behest of my Keeper (which is unlikely), it would be seen as an attempt at disfigurement. The greater question that would come to mind is why I'm shrouding my beauty. And I'll note there are many ways to do the latter save cutting but that's another discussion. However, it is not merely the covering, but the assault that is most troubling. What do I gain by maiming it? quote: I'm fascinared also, still, by emotional masochism and by how this links to self-defeating behaviours. Not at all. I think you've approached it from a valid angle. I don't fully understand my masochism in all its manifestations. I suspect it balances out my need for control and order. In his hands I can relinquish these things without concern of what will happen if I drop the ball accidentally. It inspires a natural response that isn't fraught with detailed analysis that has been turned inside an out before a conclusion is drawn. I'm required to trust him and go from there. Namaste, ~porcelaine

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 1:38:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine It's like a drug. You do it once and it stems the tide but you'll need another hit or ten to keep King Kong at bay. Pretty soon you find the occasional episode is occurring with regularity. And like most addictions it can lead into other things. So you layer on one thing after the other until you've constructed a sky high pile of nothingness. It teeters and one day you really see the mess that you've become. Or you bottom out. Hit a vein, cut too deep, or have another wake up call that forces you to stop and see where the agony has led. I remember a line from Silence of the Lambs that sums it up perfectly. Lecter utters to Clarice, "Have the lambs stopped screaming?" That's the real issue underneath it all. You can't shut them up and you can't let them out. The scars represent the words never spoken and the tears you cannot shed. The blade is the conductor and the crescendo the voice unrestrained. Your speech is littered on the canvas. EXACTLY. holy spoots -- were you sitting in my room that day? for me, i had two "this is it, no more" moments. i was having problems due to bullying at school, feeling like i didn't belong anywhere, like nobody in my family cared about me, plus baggage from childhood sexual abuse. it was a really creepy time. i had a little kit with stuff (like the chick in The Secretary =p) that i would take with me everywhere; i did it in the bathroom during or between classes, in the morning, after dinner, before i went to sleep, whenever. one day, i found myself coming out of a zone-out, repeatedly cutting into the same cut, making it deeper and deeper. i didn't even remember why i started. that was kinda when i felt like it had gotten out of my control. and i worked up all kinds of courage and told my mom. (edited to add -- there's a span of YEARS between here. i was in high school during my biggest bout of it. the second brush with it was 5-6 years later) that took me along for a while, but then once my late M and i had a horrible fight. it was the one fight we ever had, but eeeeeeech... i was in the middle of some kind of emotional downswing (i'd had a really bad car accident where my mom was injured and pets had died/gotten lost, etc etc) and for some reason, cutting seemed like a good idea. but when he saw the cuts when we were about to have sex (i'd literally totally forgotten them), the look on his face was enough to make me realize that i had done something that hurt HIM. i finally started to see myself the way he saw me, and i decided i'd never do it again, ever. for a while, i wouldn't talk about self-harm because i was pretty sure people would think i was nuts. but i talk about it now because i'm actually really proud of myself, and i hope that other people out there who are ever battling with it can see that you CAN get away from it. it is like an addiction, it's always kinda hovering in the background, but you become a strong enough person to say "i really don't need that. i don't even like it." and it simply becomes a blip in your past; something you can remember and learn from, but move on from.

porcelaine -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 2:06:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep EXACTLY. holy spoots -- were you sitting in my room that day? No, I was busy nursing my own ball and chain this way. :) quote: the look on his face was enough to make me realize that i had done something that hurt HIM. i finally started to see myself the way he saw me, and i decided i'd never do it again, ever. I think it is difficult for people to realize the impact their destructive actions have on their loved ones. You're so knee deep in your own muck you're truly clueless to the dagger going through the other person's chest. My downward spiral was not as tumultuous but I understand the place quite well. I was blessed that the people in my life at the time were capable of loving me at a greater capacity than I was willing to give to myself. For the first time in my life I dropped the ball and they rushed in to pick up the pieces to cushion the thud. Getting up was my decision and something I had to want for myself. quote: for a while, i wouldn't talk about self-harm because i was pretty sure people would think i was nuts. but i talk about it now because i'm actually really proud of myself, and i hope that other people out there who are ever battling with it can see that you CAN get away from it It can be a little uncomfortable to share personal experiences of that depth. However, one of the things I'm largely committed to is recognizing the humanity on the screen. I see beyond the pixels and remind myself to do so at the close of every comment. Namaste is my way of honoring the beauty we both possess. You're an amazing woman. I salute you. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 2:39:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: porcelaine It can be a little uncomfortable to share personal experiences of that depth. However, one of the things I'm largely committed to is recognizing the humanity on the screen. I see beyond the pixels and remind myself to do so at the close of every comment. Namaste is my way of honoring the beauty we both possess. You're an amazing woman. I salute you. [;)] Namaste, ~porcelaine this is what i also try to do the feeling is mutual, porcelaine. ^_^ i'm pretty happy to know ya ^_^ hugs

Missokyst -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 4:11:16 PM)
What fascinates me is that people can crave this... need pain, need spanking or what ever and the majority of kinksters understand it and believe it is ok. It is a personality trait. The idea that self harm is on the negative end of the scale is in that persons perception. How do they know the mindset of one who feels relief from a cut, or a thwack? Only the person who indulges in pain on their own knows the reasons and the results. You can scale it all you want, it boils down to how much someone wants to judge anothers kink as not as sane as their own.

LPslittleclip -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 6:57:55 PM)
i am a masso slave and i have met some that do self harm/body modification. i am a nurse so i understand the endorphine rush that play brings me it is said to be quite simmilar to the rush that is felt by those who do self harm/body modification. those that do self harm do it as a releif or to gain a precived ballance where those that do body modification do not hide it but get the same brain chemicals released. the main diffrence as i see it is in how the individual perceives it

frazzle -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 7:05:20 PM)
FR No idea who mentioned the film "secretary", but all that did was make both Doms and subs look mentally deranged. Self harm has nothing to do with BDSM, (in my opinion). its a sign of psychological problems that need treated. Your opinion may vary.

subrific -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 9:05:06 PM)
Self-harm has never brought me closer to a partner or turned me on. And that's kind of the point of my masochism. In fact, it usually divides you from and hurts your partner.

IronBear -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 11:01:50 PM)
Y'know its not just humans who do self damaging things.When I was having my left knee replaced, our Mal/Husky girl Lady RaRa (Not to be confused with Lady GaGa), didn't know what happened to me or where I was. She in her anxiety, plucked her plumed tail bare with the exception of a small tuft at the tip..... It is recovering now and has just started to plume....

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/8/2011 11:18:19 PM)
The Only difference for me of self inflicted hurt and masochism is who's the one controlling the actions. I never hurt myself to make me feel better, I never did it to go from a low to a high in fact I always did it to go from a high to a low.... I wanted to go from 10 to 0 not -10 to 0..Not everyone wants to hurt themselves for the same reason... Self harm the is me hurting myself Masochism is someone hurting me..... The high is exactly the same, the release is exactly the same, the feelings are exactly the same the want for either or is EXACTLY the same... The difference is... one im doing it to myself and the other someones doing it to me.... Ive given up my tendencies for self inflicted hurt only because I could no longer control the extent of the hurt i gave myself. Now I leave that in the hands of very experienced friends who know when enough is enough.... Calling it Self harm is making it negative, not everyone whos cut themselves has harmed themselves doing so, there are many men and women who are very able to slide a knife along their skin and not harm themselves only hurt themselves. Anyone who thinks that self harm is a sign that someone needs mental help... needs to really experience what its like to harm themselves....because until you have that experience you cant comment on it...You cant tell someone what they feel or what they know because you happen to find it distasteful...

Prinsexx -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/9/2011 12:08:40 AM)
quote: RIGINAL: porcelaine blessed that the people in my life at the time were capable of loving me at a greater capacity than I was willing to give to myself. This is indeed a blessing: needed for any relationship to follow through

Prinsexx -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/9/2011 12:11:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Y'know its not just humans who do self damaging things.When I was having my left knee replaced, our Mal/Husky girl Lady RaRa (Not to be confused with Lady GaGa), didn't know what happened to me or where I was. She in her anxiety, plucked her plumed tail bare with the exception of a small tuft at the tip..... It is recovering now and has just started to plume.... Yes I know this....my little Yorkie (Princess of course) does this if I am away....bites herself badly

Prinsexx -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/9/2011 12:12:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance The Only difference for me of self inflicted hurt and masochism is who's the one controlling the actions. . Self harm the is me hurting myself Masochism is someone hurting me..... For you this is a clear distinction. Thank you. But not so for all.

Prinsexx -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/9/2011 12:13:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrific Self-harm has never brought me closer to a partner or turned me on. And that's kind of the point of my masochism. In fact, it usually divides you from and hurts your partner. Re-quoted for the clearest distinction yet. Thank you.

Prinsexx -> RE: Self-harm and masochism (3/9/2011 12:18:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst What fascinates me is that people can crave this... need pain, need spanking or what ever and the majority of kinksters understand it and believe it is ok. It is a personality trait. The idea that self harm is on the negative end of the scale is in that persons perception. How do they know the mindset of one who feels relief from a cut, or a thwack? Only the person who indulges in pain on their own knows the reasons and the results. You can scale it all you want, it boils down to how much someone wants to judge anothers kink as not as sane as their own. I would agree with you here. In self appraisal those who self harm do seem to state however that it has a negative affect upon their lives and that they do eventually, in the addiction to it, state that they function inadequately and would, if they could, wish to stop the behaviour. Perhaps the differnece is simply between actions which feel compulsive (harm) and actions which are fully chosen?

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