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The world Falling down ? - 3/9/2011 9:01:26 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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As I was walking up the hill to my house in the rain last week, I began to notice the action of the rain on the ground, what it was doing, which was basically over running the gullies and drains and head down the hill to pool outside someone's house. Now that pool was pretty deep, I got the ends of my jeans wet when walking throught it, the wearing of ex military combat boots prevented my socks getting wet. I had to walk through it, because it spanned the pavement and the only option was walking on a fast and busy main road, with cars roaring up the hill, seemingly oblivious to the conditions.

Now, I understand the gullies and drains aren't being cleared out regularly, and that we are told is because of local council cut backs due to the recession, but then something I remembered from my childhood, was the regular cleaning of the drains by the council, the vacuum machine they used, I used to find fascinating as a kid, but I don't seem to remember them later as I grew up, now that might be because I got into other things, which is fair enough, my attention wandered, but coming to think of it, I have been walking around this area for five years now, and I can honestly say, I do not recall seeing one of those drain cleaning machines, as it would have brought back the memories of my childhood, and so the wonder, are the drains being cleaned, or is the recession just an excuse for failing to maintain the highway.

Now on a drier day, at the bottom of the hill where the puddle was, the tarmacadam pavement is all buckled and split, paviours are similarly twisted and partially sunk making an obvious trip hazard for those who do not through their own fault have their wits about them, or have not the sight. The roads and pavement are not being repaired, not only is the road utilities not being repaired, the preventative maintenance is not happening either.

So, I have been wondering about our infrastructure, that which is common to many that move around this country, this developed world even, perhaps, I have been wondering has the UK in fact passed it's peak, are we now slipping down hill and if so when was the peak. Asking around, my parents, the locals and the guys in the pub, when can they remember a time when everything just worked, the infrastructure was kept up and maintained. Consensus of oppinion appears to be the 1960s through to the 1970's, and the latter date will fit with my childhood, so that was my time of infrastructural awareness, and yes, as a young lad, transport interested me greatly, roads, bridges, vehicles,and I have long had an eye for detail.

So, what is happening, our infrastructure is breaking up, the maintenance is not being done, now, we are told it all down to money and the lack of it, but what I have to ask, is given the maintenance of the infrastructure could be done in the past, why not now, why is it suddenly too expensive ?

Now an answer could be there are more vehicles on the roads breaking up the infrastructure, but that is no excuse, because more vehicles means more tax, and with that revenue to repair the infrastructure, but it is not being done, which obviously says the money that is meant for infrastructural upkeep is going elsewhere, but why is it going elsewhere, as surely our infrastructure is our country. Which leads me to believe either the country is deliberately being run down, or we have actually passed our best, so in fact as we progress further year by year into a new century, where we should be progressing, we are actually regressing.

But perhaps the reality of the situation is the break up of our infrastructure is one of the visible signs that we are no longer world leaders, as what is the point of saying we have so much to offer, when what our citizens have to endure as infrastructure is crumbling fast with no signs that it will be reversed.

So, I have come to the conclusion Britain has had it's day, the Empire gone long ago and any resurgence of hope in the post war years has long since passed, Britain is heading towards being a small back water collection of countries housing heavily taxed and in some ways oppressed people at each other's throats all the time, blaming each other for the loss of their lot in life. We are as history has shown us with Empires of the past, degenerating, to well, just look at the Ancient Grecian Empire and what they have now, but perhaps with the speed of life, modern empires are crumbling faster.

And, we aren't the only ones doing it, for these boards alone suggest the US is going the same way, for I hear about the US's infrastructure crumbling, bridges not being repaired etc, and people similarly at each other's throats for the death of the American dream, and bearing in mind the US is so young, it appears to be falling the fastest.

So, in a round about circuitous route I am asking, has anyone else noticed the break up of their infrasturucture and deems it synominous with their country failing and further I am going to ask, what is the way forward, strive for empire again, or look to our own needs, slim down and not take centre stage ?

What do people want ?

And is what people want, what their politicians want ?



_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/9/2011 9:08:53 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Locally- I think we spend too much money.  We are crazy with it.  My city just redid the river front- and a batch of projects- that will end up to be a boon dongle.

Even if we go to the meetings- it has already been decided.  New library- schools- and so on.   I did specifically ask at the city council meeting if the debt we service is a fixed interest rate... they tell me it is.  So we will see.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/9/2011 10:14:07 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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Ah, so it is different elsewhere, so that indicates there is money to spend on infrastructure and that being the economic situation is not as bad as many are making out.

Or is it a blind, make it seem that there is no problem and people will believe it so, because sure as hell, if you saw your infrastructure crumbling, you would also think either the authorities could not give a shit about what the citizens have to use, or there is no money to maintain the stuff.

But one thing is certain, here in the UK, where I live at least, a very popular tourist area, the Mayflower Steps being only a mile away, the roads and pavements are crumbling away from the popular tourist areas.




_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/9/2011 10:25:40 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Anerin,

I view it- that the fed has passed the upkeep onto the states- and counties--  some of whom step up- others lack.

Being that we boomed after WW2-  we did things up right.   Back then- the roads also lasted longer- things were built to last- more- so then today.

With some projects- tho- it requires fed planning- like high speed rail.

If you factor in population growth- the infrastructure has done pretty well.

There certainly are- dying areas-- neglected areas.

My complaint- is that locally we are spending like the boom will go on forever.  With no regard that there will be carrying costs for many years on these projects.

Over all--  I think my area is in a good spot...  but building grandiose things...  will become a drag.

The city done a great job with snow removal.

But as I looked at the new street lights=-- I see they used a high gloss paint- where a flat paint would have been better- which suggests they will need to be cleaned... but --  wont be.

With most of these projects- the fed/state matched x % of the initial funding.... so free money--  but not realllllllllllllllly.   argh.

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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/9/2011 3:33:29 PM   
susan34B


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Look at history..empiers rise then fall;the Romans,the spanish,the French,the British all lasted for decreasing periods.Now it's the Americans turn to be the dying empire as the Chinese grow.

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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/9/2011 6:04:02 PM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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"...Americans turn to be the dying empire as the Chinese grow. "

So I'm not the only one who sees this. Regardless of the fact that the OP is in the UK, I think there is alot of this going around. If the US is decaying, it will be one of the shorter lived empires in history. But then there are indications that this is just an extension of the western civilisation that was already there.

In nature, the rain will topple a mountain, literally. Takes a bit of time but if the rain had it's way the land would be flat. Only violent upheaval of the Earth's crust creates mountains. Possible exceptions would be like naturally formed levys. But the point is water makes things go down. Under the surface is magma, waiting to renew the landscape, to literally creat mountains. Plates of rock shifting and drifting before our very eyes, but we can't see it.

Such as it is with anything Man made. Rust never sleeps and erosion never stops (as long as it rains that is). Maintaining our cities is not as easy as it sounds. Water is a double edged sword in a way, can't live with it, can't live without it. It wears out everything. Even the wind does it's part. Years ago I postulated that everything disolves into everything, perhaps that is true.

The issue is not strictly political or economic. Perhaps even our best efforts are for naught. Man used to be nomadic a long time ago, and maybe it's that we fight this nature that causes these problems.

I don't know exactly where I am going with this, perhaps it is just a collection of random but somewhat relevant thoughts. Pick one, they're free.

T^T

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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/10/2011 3:48:49 AM   
DCWoody


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Re OP: The UK hasn't been a super power since the war, but this doesn't mean we're falling (although we certainly did during), that we're shrinking in our share of global wealth/power isn't a sign that we're nominally shrinking, but that the rest of the world is growing faster. We live much better now than we did at the height of the Empire, and in the 60s.

As far as maintenance goes, with the cuts required I'm sure it'll get lax....so long as they can still be walked on it doesn't matter if the pavements get a bit cracked, better put off neat flagstones for a few years than cut back in other areas.....but this is to be expected when govt funding gets tight, give it a few years and things will be back to normal.

I strongly suspect your memories are just a combination of more noticable drain cleaning machinery back then, less advanced/well planned drains that required more regular maintenence, and rose tinted specs.....but it's true the 60s were a good time for govt finances, the long boom made budget problems nonexistant...large increases in tax revenue year after year.

Ths short answer I guess is, yes....maintenance (of all sorts of things) will be and is being trimmed back quite a bit....but it's only temporary, the same thing as has happened each time the govt needs to cut back significantly, don't worry about it.

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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/10/2011 4:11:28 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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I do a lot of driving, visit a lot of communities. I see some thriving and growing, others falling into decay. I could probably name 20 small towns easily that are disintegrating dramatically. And several much much larger ones that are thriving and growing dramatically.

I believe that there will be fewer and fewer people in the distant very small towns and more in larger towns and small cities. Yet...where I live, the infrastructure has improved since I moved here in 2001. Where I lived before, Cedar Rapids, the infrastructure is a shambles. And that move was from a small city to rural Iowa. I think that it is the local governments/citizens that either make or break the local infrastructure. It will reflect the priorities of the government.

Two small cities/large towns, both dramatically affected by a flood several years ago. One, Iowa City, has bounced back and is making itself even better. Doing things to create jobs and draw people into the centre of the city. Cedar Rapids has vast areas that are still vacant, crime ridden, just horrible. The citizens/government ignore the problems because anyone with power lives clear out in the newer suburbs. They stick their heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem. Expecting the federal government to magically save them. Other than the influx of criminals and gangsters from Chicago and Saint Louis, the population is shrinking. It is not a place I would want to live.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: The world Falling down ? - 3/10/2011 6:47:43 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Re OP: The UK hasn't been a super power since the war, but this doesn't mean we're falling (although we certainly did during), that we're shrinking in our share of global wealth/power isn't a sign that we're nominally shrinking, but that the rest of the world is growing faster. We live much better now than we did at the height of the Empire, and in the 60s.

As far as maintenance goes, with the cuts required I'm sure it'll get lax....so long as they can still be walked on it doesn't matter if the pavements get a bit cracked, better put off neat flagstones for a few years than cut back in other areas.....but this is to be expected when govt funding gets tight, give it a few years and things will be back to normal.

I strongly suspect your memories are just a combination of more noticable drain cleaning machinery back then, less advanced/well planned drains that required more regular maintenence, and rose tinted specs.....but it's true the 60s were a good time for govt finances, the long boom made budget problems nonexistant...large increases in tax revenue year after year.

Ths short answer I guess is, yes....maintenance (of all sorts of things) will be and is being trimmed back quite a bit....but it's only temporary, the same thing as has happened each time the govt needs to cut back significantly, don't worry about it.



Yeah, I suppose the state of the roads have one plus, it makes people think the more rugged vehicles are necessary, the Chelsea Tractors and other off road vehicles to negotiate the often very uneven road surface, their increased cost and fuel consumption just adds yet more tax to the government coffers to not spend on the upkeep of our infrastructure. Similarly, pedestrians, but come to think of it, I don't see many pedestrians, and in my circle of friends , most drive everywhere, so perhaps what's underfoot goes unnoticed, I see it, because I walk everywhere.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to DCWoody)
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