RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:00:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The same way, I would imagine, that they are appealing the health care law.



you mean repealing?



Dont you have to appeal a law to have it repealed?




Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:04:00 PM)



not really, you can take it to court or direct to the legislature for another vote to repeal.  I would have to look at the exact process, never got into the absolute precise specifics on it and I imagine it changes from state to state somewhat.




TheHeretic -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:04:52 PM)

FR

Stalemate broken. They strike, they get fired, and the whole pension problem goes away. There are plenty of school districts that have laid off young teachers that would love a crack at those jobs, even if they do have to take a sustainable benefits package, and you can clear 20-40% deadwood out of any public works dept, anywhere, anytime. Most likely, the ones making the most noise will be coming from that group anyway.

What part of "public servant" are we not clear on?




tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:05:25 PM)

Im sure it does. No doubt each state has their own policy. But, in all honesty, can you not see a legal battle brewing over this?




Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:06:39 PM)

CAFR funds

and

CRIS accounts.




tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:06:52 PM)

quote:

Stalemate broken. They strike, they get fired, and the whole pension problem goes away. There are plenty of school districts that have laid off young teachers that would love a crack at those jobs, even if they do have to take a sustainable benefits package, and you can clear 20-40% deadwood out of any public works dept, anywhere, anytime. Most likely, the ones making the most noise will be coming from that group anyway.

What part of "public servant" are we not clear on?


I never mentioned they should strike, Rich. Im the one speaking of legal options, not striking.




Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:08:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im sure it does. No doubt each state has their own policy. But, in all honesty, can you not see a legal battle brewing over this?


well the legislature here always passes everything they want to do past an army of legislative counsel attorneys first to see if they can "get away with it" in the courts.

I presume its the same in most states.

you gotta remember the states came on board under the same sovereign powers of the articles of confederation... they can do any damn thing they want literally and most do not need any vote from the public for anything.  (especially taxes)

welcome to the desert of the real!




tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:09:27 PM)

Im not so sure thats the case anymore, RO. Seems our state governments are on power trips.




Brain -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:12:01 PM)

It's unacceptable. Many people will never vote Republican again. Walker political career is finished. He will never be successful as a national candidate even if he wins a nomination in the Republican Party.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Only for public unions taz.

Wisconsin wins.





EternalHoH -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:13:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What part of "public servant" are we not clear on?


You spend too much time in this lifestyle, because you equate 'public servant' to 'slave of the taxpayer'.




Brain -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:13:52 PM)

It won't work because the scumbag Walker would fire them. Republicans need to be recalled especially Walker.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Tazzy the only way to fight this is for public workers to go out on a mass strike.. they will have to do it at the risk of their jobs because the union can not sanction the strike and stay out of jail and not be fined.

It is tough but the only thing that will work.

Butch




tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:15:07 PM)

Walker has a year before he can be recalled.




EternalHoH -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:15:53 PM)

Even if Walker gets bounced, 'the brothers' will take care of him.

It really is going to take burning down the brothers of the world.




Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:16:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im not so sure thats the case anymore, RO. Seems our state governments are on power trips.


they are because of the corrupt courts because of the corrupt legislatures because the people dont have time to be lawyers on top of survival out here.

The courts no longer are protecting people and they work directly for the banks now days.  LONG drawn out trail but thats the way the money flows.

OK HERE IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT BEYOND ANYTHING ELSE.

GET THIS

THE LEGISLATURES ARE NOT REQUIRED IN ANY STATE THAT I AM AWARE OF TO PASS CONSTITUTIONAL LAWS.

THEREFORE THEY CAN PASS ANY DAMN THING THEY CAN GET TO STICK TO THE WALL IN THE COURTS.

NOW THAT THE COURTS ARE CORRUPT AND NO LONGER PROTECT THE PEOPLE AS PER THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL OATH.

WE ARE FUCKED FUCKED AND MORE SANDPAPER FUCKED! :)




Real0ne -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:18:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

It's unacceptable. Many people will never vote Republican again. Walker political career is finished. He will never be successful as a national candidate even if he wins a nomination in the Republican Party.



doubt ti you had scads of people that went to protest the government protestors!

the people here wanted walker to bust up the gubmint monopoly.




Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:21:59 PM)

[image]http://www.newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/cartoon_500/cartoons/payne_wisconsinunions.jpg[/image]




EternalHoH -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:23:24 PM)

quote:

the people here wanted walker to bust up the gubmint monopoly.



In exchange for what?  An Oligarchy?

What a bunch of dim bulbs up there.


You are right, tho, they wanted it, and they got it.  Now they can enjoy the ride straight to the bottom and say "we did it".




joether -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:23:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Stalemate broken. They strike, they get fired, and the whole pension problem goes away. There are plenty of school districts that have laid off young teachers that would love a crack at those jobs, even if they do have to take a sustainable benefits package, and you can clear 20-40% deadwood out of any public works dept, anywhere, anytime. Most likely, the ones making the most noise will be coming from that group anyway.

What part of "public servant" are we not clear on?


You really dont have a clue of what your talking about, do you?

According to you: If the teachers strike, they are fired. Ok, how do you handle the children who need an education as required by law? Hell, required by parents? Repulicans in that state just havent thought things through (big surprise). Students will start getting lower and lower test results because the Republicans fired the good and exceptional teachers who were on strike. So the state will have to hire teachers who were not only as good, but better, at a lower pay rate.

Now, someone looking to get a job as a teacher, working in the conditions that are typical for high school, with the labor intensive hours and degrees required for the job (imagine the student loan); what sane person would except a job in which they will be treated without dignity, honest, and ethics by Republicans? If anything, the people will simply demand a higher pay; You want their skills, your paying their salaray. You'll find that salary will be higher then the compensation package that teachers in that state currently have. I know you wont believe me. Do you want to pay more for less teacher....that's what you'll get if you fire the current crop of teachers.

Now, with test scores decreasing, parents have less interest in living in a state governed by clueless idiots who don't know how to raise taxes, even though, that's the most obvious solution. They will be the ones that push a company to move to another state. Companies need employees to operate. Employees want what is best for their children. If your in a state that promotes stupidity, ignorance, and foolishness, your going to find large companies start moving out.

And that's just the teachers. How about all other public servants? Sanitation? Road construction? Librarians? These are all US Citizens, who perform needed services for the community. So if they resist King Walker, they'll just be eliminated? Then you'll have to hire people to replace them. That will take money and time, in the mean time, civil services are rendered inactive or under staffed. You really just dont get the depth of the problems the Republicans have created for their state. Neither does the Republicans. But they will soon find that those public servants....are US Citizens who will 100% likely...VOTE, in the next election. And not for the Republicans either. And there's alot of moderates who will side with tme, because most moderates don't like seeing public officals abusing their power.




tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:24:56 PM)

Although the Republicans believe they have scored a coup d'etats by passing the collective bargaining piece without the budget-requiring quorum, there really is nothing new that has happened in the balance of power.

The deal has always been: accept the public-sector financial concessions in exchange for no change in the collective bargaining rights.

Democrats can remain holdouts for that deal. Republicans would have to repeal what they passed, not much different than agreeing to the compromise before they passed it. In fact, they can make repeal a precondition to returning.


Actually, the above is true. There were no financial changes in what they passed, no budget changes. What happened was Walker removed the financial part, and just went after the collective bargaining. It does nothing to help with the budget shortfall.

a stale mate seems to still be in effect.




TheHeretic -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/9/2011 9:25:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I never mentioned they should strike, Rich.



Sorry, Tazzy. I wound up replying to the thread more than you. My turn to do an edit to add for clarity (FR)




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