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Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 12:59:33 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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I believe I have entered what I understand to be a form of catch 22 with my employment ideas, as it seems I need a bit of paper to prove I am capable of a job in my chosen field of expertise. i am on a BA course which is boring me shitless because it's level is way under my capacity and the only thing I am learning, is the fact that I am learning nothing, been there, done that decades ago, but because i have served my time in industry with real experience in real situations I missed out on the paper trail. i know what I can do, i know what I am capable of and I have done it before, but in order to do it again, I must prove my worth by having a piece of paper to waft at an employer or else that employer will not even consider my application. All through my work history, my employment has gone mostly on word of mouth and trials, a case of we will give you a trial, but now it seems because of insurance, if one does not have the piece of paper from a recognised institution, forget it.

This leads me to think the world of employment is getting sewn up with education, in that it appears learning institutions it seems are working to some extents hand in hand with industry, which makes sense, but over emphasis on pieces of paper that cost thousands and years of study is doing a disservice to those that are older and time served, i.e. those with practical experience in real time situations, not theoretical paper exercises.

in my quest for suitable employment, I am coming across highly educated and experienced people in my age group and older who are taking and doing menial jobs because they lack the necessary paperwork, sure one can go and get the paperwork, spend years in education and vast sums of money, but coming back to education for someone in their later years is bloody difficult, I know, I am trying to do it. I am also coming across others who hate their profession but cannot leave it to do something more rewarding because they also lack paperwork, leading to a situation where an employee is unhappy in their work, and we all know what unhappy employees are capable of, usually the bare minimum to satisfy the employer. Happy employees tend to extend themselves, because they are interested and take pride in their job, thus being a benefit to themselves, their employer and any other end requirement.

The catch 22 situation I am experiencing is the fact that I already work at MA level of beyond, i need a challenge to work, and i am just not getting it, even by working at a high level with my BA, because assessors are telling me not to set such a high standard, as it is not required at this level, so I am in effect not being recognised for my extra effort. Of course my tutors are saying they recognise the fact that I am bored, they can see it, and they know the level I work at and are already saying i am MA or beyond, but i cannot have MA, or even be considered for a more challenging course because I do not have the preliminary paperwork, the BA, which to be honest, is only a degree, and everyone, all the kids, teens and early twenties it seems has one now. My BA course is so far, four years part time, and to complete, i need a couple more years, for what, a degree. An MA will take a similar amount of time part time and cost probably more than I can afford, just to get a piece of paper to prove my worth, i simply cannot spend years in education.

My only other option is go self employed, but even with that now, it appears customers want to know one's educational background as a surety they are getting good work, it seems they cannot believe what they see in front of them, for everyone it seems expects one's skills to have come via a learning establishment nowadays.

So, what's happening, is work being tied up by education, what is causing it, and is this a disservice to experienced, time served workers, because to me, it seems the young with the easier obtained advanced education are naturally being chosen over those with life experience. The result, paper theory is no substitute for practical experience, or rather it shouldn't be, but it seems the world of employment is going that way.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 1:43:41 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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Rip Van Aneirin.

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“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 2:38:24 AM   
Termyn8or


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It would be important to know exactly what you do. In some things it is easy to just go into business for yourself. Some trades it is possible to just have a portfolio of your work, and references, in others it is damnear impossible.

T^T

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 3:18:18 AM   
Aneirin


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Someone coined a fantastic phrase for what I was this past weekend, which basically transpires as a confused fart in a colander, so many holes and I do not know which to go through. But ideally, I wish to pursue my metal smithing, with a bit of machine repair just as a sideline. Machine repair as I am an ex plant engineer, where anything if it had an electric motor, petrol, diesel or hand operated, I can to repair. The metal smithing, well, I have identified markets for my designs, and have people asking me to make things for them, even people in the US, but I just seem unable top motivate myself into doing where there obviously is a requirement.

Portfolio, now that is a problem, for I never used to record my arts, I just made and gave away, although I do have some things I have made on my profile here. But one thing I have found, pre-art college I made more things than I am doing at art college, and that because most of the course is taken up with academia, not the art technique and application.

The writing is on the wall, I need to follow my natural skills, but i am finding, i just cannot motivate myself, which is annoying, because I have customers wanting what I can make. i also fail to be able to price my products adequately, because I believe if I can make something easily, then anyone can, and my skills are no great shakes.

Like I said, a confused fart in a colander.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 3:38:14 AM   
Termyn8or


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Simple An. Define work. I don't mean give me a definition, I mean define the time you will work. You make say $20 an hour, whatever, what you think is fair. You add up the time it takes to produce a saleable piece and then add in the material cost and perhaps a bit of profit.

It's not as hard as it seems.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 3/14/2011 3:39:20 AM >

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 3:48:09 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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My definition of work is something that one enjoys doing, as for me enjoyment has to be a large part of any job, because I do not like to work under par, I have pride in what I do, always have, a possible reason why employers have for want of a better description, fucked me off in the past and so perhaps my need to work for myself to my standard.

But that is the big problem, defining self worth, what am I worth.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 11:55:06 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But that is the big problem, defining self worth, what am I worth.


Then don't define it by external measures such as jobs and employers.

All you touch and all you see
is all your life will ever be


_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 12:03:43 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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But that's the trouble, for i do not know what it is like in the US or elsewhere, but here in the UK, ones job, their profession is worth far more than the wage it brings in, it defines the person.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 12:04:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But that's the trouble, for i do not know what it is like in the US or elsewhere, but here in the UK, ones job, their profession is worth far more than the wage it brings in, it defines the person.


It may define you in other people's view, but only you can define yourself.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 12:12:23 PM   
ashjor911


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From: balcony, having a Smoke
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Dont look at this the wrong way,
When I was an employer but i always choose a real experience over educaion

Whising you good luck in your education Aneirin



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my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
code name : 009.5
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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 12:21:53 PM   
TheShrew


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From: The state I live in? Confusion.
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Forced to pursue higher education to remain competitive, while hating every aspect of pursuing higher education. Indeed, it appears that you are in a catch22. Honestly, what can you do? You either get the paper and forge ahead or drop it all and stagnate. This isnt 15, 20, 30 years ago when experience and a good work ethic was enough to carry you through life. It's a new world, and it's still changing every day.
You have vast experience but no paper. This leads employers to bypass you to hire youth with the paper but little/no experience. Once you have the paper it catapults you ahead because you already have the experience. Find solace in knowing you are not the only one. Millions of people have been forced into reeducation as adults. {And there are boatloads of unemployed MBAs, not to mention the incalculable masses who don't even have a high school diploma.} Luckily, you have prospects  .. be thankful for that as well as the opportunity to acquire an education.

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/14/2011 1:01:52 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Then OP-  what would you say to the oodles of people with degrees- who cant get experience? 

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RE: Catch 22 - 3/15/2011 5:27:21 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheShrew

Forced to pursue higher education to remain competitive, while hating every aspect of pursuing higher education. Indeed, it appears that you are in a catch22. Honestly, what can you do? You either get the paper and forge ahead or drop it all and stagnate. This isnt 15, 20, 30 years ago when experience and a good work ethic was enough to carry you through life. It's a new world, and it's still changing every day.
You have vast experience but no paper. This leads employers to bypass you to hire youth with the paper but little/no experience. Once you have the paper it catapults you ahead because you already have the experience. Find solace in knowing you are not the only one. Millions of people have been forced into reeducation as adults. {And there are boatloads of unemployed MBAs, not to mention the incalculable masses who don't even have a high school diploma.} Luckily, you have prospects  .. be thankful for that as well as the opportunity to acquire an education.



We have another problem in our country, ageism, over forty one was considered questionable for employment, over fifty even more so, and beyond that, well there are a lot of people who would like to work, but feel discriminated against, as they are virtually unemployable. I am mid forties and getting worried about breaking into a new work discipline, but i cannot go back to my old due to work related injuries, ( wrecked backs are common in that industry and a reason many leave it) and poor financial award prospects, ( yeah one of those jobs that was deeply satisfying, but did not pay much).

So, it seems self employment is the way to go for me, but it scares the hell out of me.

The education, I will stay for now, because education is not always about the end result, for it can also be used as a stepping stone to other avenues, my other venue I announced yesterday to my tutors at college, my desire to be self employed with what it is they reckon I am a natural at.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to TheShrew)
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