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It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 3:43:44 AM

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From: Tamaris
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Okay religion again ;

If someone believes in God but their belief is not anything like what the major religions describe it as, could they still believe in God ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 3:48:21 AM

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Yes

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 3:56:48 AM

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From: Tamaris
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The reason I ask, is Hindus, Buddhists and nearly every other religion believes in God, yet they not being of the Abrahamic lineage, they are classed as pagan, i.e. not the Abrahamic God believers, but they believe in God, what is the difference, is there any difference or is the saying true, all paths lead to the same ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 4:00:52 AM

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Who classifies them as "pagan"? Perhaps therein lies your answer. For me, they all end up at the same destination by way of different paths.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 4:11:05 AM

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From: Tamaris
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As I thought, religion does not define God and hence my reason for staying away from religion which you already understand I have serious reservations about.

Chatting to a baptist friend last night and in the discussion his interpretation of something we were talking about was in his religion, he has been told and there lies the cruxt for me, told, whereas, I like to find out for myself, discern my own truths from the many. In discerning my own truths, I can distinguish between right and wrong and that based upon feeling, if something feels bad, then generally, it is. My ways of working are largely based on feeling as opposed to thought, because I believe feeling is the spirit in us.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 5:02:40 AM

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quote:

As I thought, religion does not define God and hence my reason for staying away from religion which you already understand I have serious reservations about.

Religion feels it does define god. For me, it doesnt. This is a grey area. If you are looking for a definitive answer, Im afraid you wont get one.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 5:43:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Okay religion again ;

If someone believes in God but their belief is not anything like what the major religions describe it as, could they still believe in God ?

Huh?

Sorry, i guess i don't get it. You mean, whether there's some Deity Accreditation Board that decides which gods are "real" and which are "fake"? Yes, there's one of those. It's called: every single religion on earth.

But as far as i'm concerned, the crazy guy on the corner who thinks his shoe is God, still believes in God.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/14/2011 5:45:53 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 6:27:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
...I like to find out for myself, discern my own truths from the many. In discerning my own truths, I can distinguish between right and wrong and that based upon feeling, if something feels bad, then generally, it is. My ways of working are largely based on feeling as opposed to thought, because I believe feeling is the spirit in us.

i'm pretty sure You could find *that* in a religion, if You really wanted to.

pam

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 6:38:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Who classifies them as "pagan"? Perhaps therein lies your answer. For me, they all end up at the same destination by way of different paths.

What is the destination? For some religions, it's attainment of heaven (or nirvana). For some, it's a moral code on earth. For some, there IS no destination as such - it's a journey instead.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 3/14/2011 7:03:39 AM >

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 6:48:20 AM

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quote:

What is the destination? Got some religions, it's attainment of heaven (or nirvana). For some, it's a moral code on earth. For some, there IS no destination as such - it's a journey instead.

The journey instead.... same as different paths.

Destination... everyone thinks that means heaven or hell... lol... many dont believe either exists. My own belief? Heaven/hell on earth... its what we make of it. The destination, in my opinion, is to make the best life possible for me, you, him, her... again, its what we make of it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 7:26:17 AM

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[font="Arial"] Aneirin:
The reason I ask, is … Buddhists { … } believe in God, {but not the Judeo-Christian God}

Buddhists do not believe in God. Even if one regards the devas as “gods” (highly problematic), they are not the monotheistic God to which you allude.

dd.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 10:05:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkestDezirez

[font="Arial"] Aneirin:
The reason I ask, is … Buddhists { … } believe in God, {but not the Judeo-Christian God}

Buddhists do not believe in God. Even if one regards the devas as “gods” (highly problematic), they are not the monotheistic God to which you allude.

dd.

Yes, and it is more of a "philosophy" than a "religion" per se. Seems they do pretty well without a "God".

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 3/14/2011 10:06:11 AM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DarkestDezirez)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 10:48:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkestDezirez

Buddhists do not believe in God.

Well briefly, yes and no.

More fully, there are different schools of Buddhism. For example...

Buddhist scholar, Dr. B. Alan Wallace... writes: "a careful analysis of Vajrayana Buddhist cosmogony, specifically as presented in the Atiyoga tradition of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, which presents itself as the culmination of all Buddhist teachings, reveals a theory of a transcendent ground of being and a process of creation that bear remarkable similarities with views presented in Vedanta and Neoplatonic Western Christian theories of creation." In fact, Wallace sees these views as so similar that they seem almost to be different manifestations of the same theory. He further comments: "Vajrayana Buddhism, Vedanta, and Neoplatonic Christianity have so much in common that they could almost be regarded as varying interpretations of a single theory."

K.

(in reply to DarkestDezirez)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 11:42:31 AM

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Kirata:

Well, I was trying avoid too esoteric a discussion of God and Buddhism - and I'll stay on that course. The main tenet of the monotheistic religions is that salvation, redemption and a life everlasting are gained through belief in and worship of the one true God.

Whether you get your Decalogue from Exodus or Deutoronomy, the big thing you're supposed to remember is you don't have any other gods before God; No bowing down to or worshiping of idols (American or otherwise - that last may not be part of the original text); God can get pretty pissy about this and bang your kids heads together all the way down to the third or fourth generation; but if you're good about the whole God thing and follow the commandments, God will give you major props.

In Buddhism, however, the goal is not the proverbial life everlasting but, rather, release from the endless round of birth and rebirth and finding Nirvana (or Nibbana, depending on your choice of Sanskrit or Pali). This release comes from embracing the four noble truths, following the noble eightfold path and some other stuff, in pretty much a supporting role. "Salvation" comes from within without the intercession of a God. Buddhists will also allow that if God and Jesus float your boat that's fine with them. The reverse isn't always the case with Judeo-Christians up against other religions.

However, as philosophies for living, Christianity and Buddhism have a lot in common.

dd.

< Message edited by DarkestDezirez -- 3/14/2011 11:44:43 AM >

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 11:50:34 AM

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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

What is the destination? Got some religions, it's attainment of heaven (or nirvana). For some, it's a moral code on earth. For some, there IS no destination as such - it's a journey instead.

The journey instead.... same as different paths.

Destination... everyone thinks that means heaven or hell... lol... many dont believe either exists. My own belief? Heaven/hell on earth... its what we make of it. The destination, in my opinion, is to make the best life possible for me, you, him, her... again, its what we make of it.

I certainly don't believe in heaven and hell at the end of it all, for I believe heaven and hell exist within the person here on planet Earth. Where one exists is down to the person, that saying, it is down to us to make the best life we can for ourselves and others, otherwise what would be the point of life on earth, as it would be nothing more than a staging post for other possibilities as yet, unproved.

As an example, so far from personal experience, there is nothing worse than the pits of black depression, largely out of it now, I never want to go back there again.

I also believe God is within and without, that being God is in people, and nature and conversely the polar opposite is in the same place, so most people I think tend to take the road right down the middle, with little deviations towards one polar opposite or the other from time time, thus indicating no one is perfect, we are all here to learn.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 11:57:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

]

I certainly don't believe in heaven and hell at the end of it all, for I believe heaven and hell exist within the person here on planet Earth. Where one exists is down to the person, that saying, it is down to us to make the best life we can for ourselves and others, otherwise what would be the point of life on earth, as it would be nothing more than a staging post for other possibilities as yet, unproved.

So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell,
blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 5:34:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkestDezirez

the big thing you're supposed to remember is you don't have any other gods before God

Your use and non-use of capitalization above reflects the current monotheistic view, but in doing so it presents a misleading picture. There were many different gods being worshipped at that time, and the Hebrews were being warned not to worship any of those other gods (for theirs was a jealous prick). That's henotheism, not monotheism. Monotheism developed later. In monotheism, there are no (is no) other god(s).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkestDezirez

In Buddhism, however, the goal is not the proverbial life everlasting but, rather, release from the endless round of birth and rebirth and finding Nirvana

Neither Buddhism nor Christianity limits life to physical incarnate life. Buddha dismissed inquiries about whether or not there is a God because it is an unskillful question.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/14/2011 6:04:30 PM >

(in reply to DarkestDezirez)

RE: It's Life Jim, but not as we know it ? - 3/14/2011 10:58:15 PM

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Yes they can but the perception and interpretation is individual and the only commonalities are linguistic and cultural.

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Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to Aneirin)

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