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RE: And so it begins. - 3/20/2011 6:38:43 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I do not believe this issue has been well thought through, sure the Western interest in the country is oil, bearing in mind various oil companies have interests in the country they want protected, it is this I believe the coalition forces are interested in more than a tyrant killing his people scenario.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/20/2011 11:21:53 PM

Termyn8or

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Yeah we are. When someone needs a bombing it is our job, as stated by some member of the goveernment years ago about Iraq.

We are the only licensed bombers in the world.

T^T

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 3:26:56 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I do not believe this issue has been well thought through, sure the Western interest in the country is oil, bearing in mind various oil companies have interests in the country they want protected, it is this I believe the coalition forces are interested in more than a tyrant killing his people scenario.

Why do you all ways think the west, and in particular the US, is only interested in oil? If you do a little search you will find the US imports a little over 1/2 of one percent of its oil from Libya... Easily made up from other sources... Of this .6 percent or so American companies only have control of around 16 percent or 1/10 or one percent of their profit here in the US. Nothing that would entice us to war. No… we are wrong to interfere in a civil war but we are doing it to protect people not oil.

Now the UK and France may be doing it for oil…but not us.

Butch

So why has not America done the same with other countries where the leaders are using the military against their own people, for surely if the reason is to protect people, then people in similar situation exist in other parts of the world , countries that are non oil bearing, or for that matter, non resource bearing, for oil is not the only reason the west might take an interest in other lands.

I wonder which of the big oil companies have lobbied governments in the Western world about this situation and asked for help, for to remember, it seems worldwide, the oil industries wield a lot of political might.

Sorry, I simply fail to believe this effort is pure humanitarian, as all the weapons and expertise cost, and who is going to pay for that, oh, don't tell me, the tax payers in the respective countries, as always. the tax payers pay for expeditionary military actions that benefit who.

Now if it were your own land that was being put down by your own government by the military you paid for to defend you and you asked for help from other nations, wouldn't you be the tiniest bit pissed off, if other nations had responded by launching a bunch of missiles at 'military' targets and those missiles had killed your own people, when it was simply you asked for a no fly zone, which could be simply achieved by using that wonderous device called radar, something is flying around, identify friend or foe, wrong answer missiles are flying, or UN aircraft policing the skies, a shot needn't be fired, prescence might just be enough.

And of these military targets, what is the aim, deprive the country of it's defences, which means once Maddafi is gone, the country is wide open, defenceless.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/21/2011 3:28:37 AM >

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 8:13:10 AM

kdsub

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I just want you to understand the driving force for this action is from the UK and France...Your largest supplier of oil is Libya. Your government is participating because of oil. While we are doing it to rid the area of a man who has sponsored attacks against America in the past. Neither of us really gives a shit about the people of Libya.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/21/2011 8:33:43 AM >

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 10:13:22 AM

Aneirin

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Fair enough.

But watch it change from what it is into something else.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 10:30:03 AM

kdsub

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That my Friend is a for sure thing...This is how it really is... The Arab league wants to get rid of Qaddafi but wants the US to do it. They will soon claim the Americans are going too far and that is not their wishes. This allows them to remove a thorn in their sides but not to take any blame for killing fellow Arabs.

They are using us…again… the hypocritical bastards... and many here can't seem to understand this.

Butch

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 10:58:22 AM

Aneirin

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Maybe they understand full well how to use the US, given that the US has created a history of stepping upto the mark first and it is this that will doom the US, for they are doing simply as is expected, both sides.

Us, well we have a new prime minister who is keen to be known on the world stage, just like his predecessor Tony Blair, so what is the best way to do that, simply be a big mouth in a conflict, and of course the oil industry interests, can't forget them, which kind of makes one wonder what does our government exist for, surely it is not just extracting taxation from us so the government can spend it on killing our own people and smoothing the way for interested industries.

Of course the price at the pump will rise, it always does, but perhaps to pay for the Typhoons that can't bomb and the decrepit Tornadoes that need twenty four hours to get ready for operation, the tax on the increased price at the pump will be raised. Yet another reason we will be told for the necessary increased prices on everything, and just to think, recent reports suggest poverty in the UK is so bad now, there are families depending on food parcels.

Methinks our government is failing us.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 11:41:33 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

...... The Arab league wants to get rid of Qaddafi but wants the US to do it. They will soon claim the Americans are going too far and that is not their wishes. This allows them to remove a thorn in their sides but not to take any blame for killing fellow Arabs...........
Butch

The AL did that yesterday - http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/arab-league-condemns-broad-bombing-campaign-in-libya/2011/03/20/AB1pSg1_story.html

The US said before all parties joined and agreed to the no fly zone that it would involve taking out their Air Defense capabilities.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 1:25:09 PM

Phoenixpower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
recent reports suggest poverty in the UK is so bad now, there are families depending on food parcels.

Methinks our government is failing us.

I certainly think the same when they want to spend 8 million pound now to demolish a gipsy side which isnt there just since yesterday

regarding UK is so bad now etc. a friend recently told me that she read an advert from a london council where social work departments are looking for volunteers to do admin work

Right...our work force, most of the time, states that our jobs arent suitable for job share to protect the families with letting as less as possible other peoples view their files and now they suggest that volunteers should do that work

spending now money on project libya,
wasting money with that gipsy side in the current situation,
still paying at times oversea social workers to relocate here as they simply dont have enough social workers over here

yep...they know how to spend money

and with the increased uni fees soon in place that will "surely" get better

The money they invest on american social workers coming over to fill vacancies (such as the fact that haringey took on 22 american social workers due to "surprisingly" people not being motivated to work there after the last scandal) would much better being used in funding more students with the public money to do the degree on the employment based route...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1151907/Baby-P-council-hired-US-college-kids-36-000-year-social-workers.html

So yep, the government is good in spending money as if there would be no tomorrow

Sorry for that hijack

now, back to Libya

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 5:38:16 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Your largest supplier of oil is Libya.

Butch

Total bullshit. Most imports of UK oil come from Norway. Libya supplies only a fraction and the UK is way down the list of countries Libya supplies to, the US is lower than we are.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 6:08:14 PM

kdsub

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So then you agree your government is participating out of the goodness of their hearts?

CHECK this out before you go off the deep end... you import almost 20 times more oil, by percent anyway, from Libya then the US. A one in every 10 barrel cut in your supplies would hurt deep don't you think.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/21/2011 6:21:25 PM >

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 6:24:01 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So then you agree your government is participating out of the goodness of their hearts?

CHECK this out before you go off the deep end... you import almost 20 times more oil, by percent anyway, from Libya then the US. A 10 percent cut in your supplies would hurt deep don't you think.

Butch

Im just pointing out your intitial claim was nonsense. Its nice to know you have since checked your facts though.

And yes, I do think Obama and Cameron are doing this for humanitarian, unlike Bush and Blair. I have already said as much earlier, Im not sure on what thread though.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/21/2011 8:28:21 PM

kdsub

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I do tend to include the UK as part of Europe and 85 percent of Libya's oil goes to Europe. So you will have to admit their oil is a lot more important to you then the US...so I was not too far off the mark.

Butch

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 5:20:11 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I do tend to include the UK as part of Europe and 85 percent of Libya's oil goes to Europe. So you will have to admit their oil is a lot more important to you then the US...so I was not too far off the mark.

Butch

You were way off the mark. Its much the same as classing the US, Canada and Mexico as one country, since they have a tarde block.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 6:57:33 AM

Sanity

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Here is some news - there is a leadership vacuum among the allies for some reason:

quote:

Allies Expand Libya Military Campaign, Debate Command

Allied forces expanded their air campaign over Libya to thwart Muammar Qaddafi’s fighters and enable rebels to regain control of cities, as leaders debated who should be in overall control of the operation.

I wonder how they will settle this. Draw straws?

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 7:20:02 AM

Aneirin

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It is all going to turn into a pot of shit, but we never learn

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 7:38:48 AM

Sanity

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Any idea whose job it is going to be to rebuild this little tar baby?

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 7:41:37 AM

Aneirin

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Oh yeah, it has just got to be the good 'ole US of A, I suspect it will again fall that way.

But the trouble is, who else will you piss off in the process.

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 7:54:54 AM

Sanity

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Why not Europe, or Islam?

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RE: And so it begins. - 3/22/2011 7:59:58 AM

Aneirin

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What, you expect us to replace stuff you lot broke, who'se going to pay for that ?

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