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RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 6:33:31 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 7:26:38 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.


Again, why is this our responsibility?

How much of our financial resources are we supposed to devote to the rest of the world when we are already deep in debt and there are those calling for cutting social programs for our own citizens.

Not to mention the fact we support these dictators then suddenly decide we need regime change.

If regime change is needed then it should be the decision of the people in that country. 

The reality is that there are a number of oil companies from various western countries that have large investments in Libya.  This isn't about freedom for the Libyan people.

Just as you said, we did nothing in Rwanda and we have done nothing in many countries where people were brutalized.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 9:22:10 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Answer the question for me that you asked. Where is the line drawn?

Why is it that we choose to intervene in certain countries with a history of human rights abuses while ignoring others?

China for example.


I dont know, rule. What I gathered from what I posted is that according to the treaties we signed with the UN Council, we are obligated to help when they ask, and to not interfer when they dont.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 10:17:24 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

]I think this last has been covered by the above....but I certainly disagree with any sort of turtle like isolationism,especially of the type advocated in such crude ways by popeye.The world is getting smaller every day...we can not afford to disengaged from the rest of the world....in the false belief that were we just to ignore others we will be left to our own.
Just doesn't work.



Why would it not work?

There are plenty of countries that manage to mind their own business rather than constantly getting involved in others affairs.

There has never been a point in my lifetime when this country has not been involved in another country's conflict.

Why is this our responsibility?

What exactly did we accomplish in Vietnam other than sending thousands of our soldiers to their deaths and thousands more to a lifetime of disabling injuries.

That was supposed to be a humanitarian mission also.

And now we have normalized diplomatic relations with the evil commie empire that was such a threat to us.



RML,I'm not ignoring this....I just need to run out and take care of some mundane tasks....I shall be back later to address this.But off the top of my head I would first off say their is a big difference between minding one's own business(whose to determine what "minding our own business"entails?) and isolationism.
Talk to you later


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:23:51 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		What is so wrong with isolationism? If every country were to practice it there would be no wars...Sounds like the way to go for world peace to me.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:25:56 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

What is so wrong with isolationism? If every country were to practice it there would be no wars...Sounds like the way to go for world peace to me.


The problem with it is that there will always be some nation, some nut case, who wants more and more. Greed spawns wars.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:37:14 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.
IIMO we have an obligation to take care of our citizens first. Our resources are limited.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:51:34 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.


Again, why is this our responsibility?

How much of our financial resources are we supposed to devote to the rest of the world when we are already deep in debt and there are those calling for cutting social programs for our own citizens.

Not to mention the fact we support these dictators then suddenly decide we need regime change.

If regime change is needed then it should be the decision of the people in that country. 

The reality is that there are a number of oil companies from various western countries that have large investments in Libya.  This isn't about freedom for the Libyan people.

Just as you said, we did nothing in Rwanda and we have done nothing in many countries where people were brutalized.



Why isn't it? No argument from me on Iraq. At all. But if you are going to tell me you are cool with just sitting on your hands when you are postive that people are going to be slaughtered then tell me what separates you from the Nazi's? Where is your personal line. Tell me if our government was to quell "revolt" in Wisconsin....would you just simply shrug and say...well it isn't Pa...so I shouldn't get involved.

Deficits are the red herring. Raise taxes, close loopholes. Simple as that. Just cause the rest of the country want to kiss rich peoples' asses doesn't mean we all need to....fuck me

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:52:25 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.


DYB, and how was Rwanda our business? You had two groups who didn't like each other and started hacking each other up with machetes.
Would people feel better if they had had firearms?
And as usual the "U.N." was there and did nothing!
I wouldn't care if a million Irishmen started hacking each other up with slanes!
What if we got involved in that? Half of Ireland would then love us and the other half would hate us!
I'm in favor of drastic cuts to the military not only to save money but so that Washington can't be fighting these perpetual wars and getting involved in the internal conflicts of foreign countries.
It's not the job description of the U.S. government to be going to foreign countries and breaking up fights.
Some of the most dangerous calls that the police go on are "domestics." They don't know who's going to be shooting at them!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:55:41 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.
IIMO we have an obligation to take care of our citizens first. Our resources are limited.



So to be clear. If , say , the French show up in Canada tomorrow laying it waste....you are going to shrug and say "Not my problem?"

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 11:59:13 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.


DYB, and how was Rwanda our business? You had two groups who didn't like each other and started hacking each other up with machetes.
Would people feel better if they had had firearms?
And as usual the "U.N." was there and did nothing!
I wouldn't care if a million Irishmen started hacking each other up with slanes!
What if we got involved in that? Half of Ireland would then love us and the other half would hate us!
I'm in favor of drastic cuts to the military not only to save money but so that Washington can't be fighting these perpetual wars and getting involved in the internal conflicts of foreign countries.
It's not the job description of the U.S. government to be going to foreign countries and breaking up fights.
Some of the most dangerous calls that the police go on are "domestics." They don't know who's going to be shooting at them!


I hear you pops but tell where is the line? Why did we go fight WW2? Didn't really concern us. Korea? If New Hamsphire starts to hack away at Vermont should I give a shit and why?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 12:10:43 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You're right but don't forget hate and jealousy.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 12:52:21 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.


DYB, and how was Rwanda our business? You had two groups who didn't like each other and started hacking each other up with machetes.
Would people feel better if they had had firearms?
And as usual the "U.N." was there and did nothing!
I wouldn't care if a million Irishmen started hacking each other up with slanes!
What if we got involved in that? Half of Ireland would then love us and the other half would hate us!
I'm in favor of drastic cuts to the military not only to save money but so that Washington can't be fighting these perpetual wars and getting involved in the internal conflicts of foreign countries.
It's not the job description of the U.S. government to be going to foreign countries and breaking up fights.
Some of the most dangerous calls that the police go on are "domestics." They don't know who's going to be shooting at them!


I hear you pops but tell where is the line? Why did we go fight WW2? Didn't really concern us. Korea? If New Hamsphire starts to hack away at Vermont should I give a shit and why?



Ah,.....because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor?
Korea we never should have gotten invoved in, nor Vietnam.
New Hampshire and Vermont? They have "law enforcement" in those two states, something that doesn't exist in many foreign countries. If those two states start hacking away at each other you win a trip to Disneyworld! (Those two states are *LOADED* with firearms!) (I knew a guy in New Hampshire who had 400 some odd guns! And many others who had 50, 100 etc.)
When did we become "Boss of the World?" Obama told us during his campaign that he wouldn't be engaging in "Imperialism" or "Interventionism." Fast forward and he's sending 30,000 more Troops to Afganistan!
Most times when two kids are fighting after school the other kids just watch.
DYB, Europe gets a large percentage of it's oil from Libya. Why do you think England, Germany and Spain were so quick to attack Libya even before us? This is a British Petrolium (BP)/ Shell Oil Co war, not an "Exon/Mobil war."
But,.....it's,...."not for the oil",....it's for,....."human rights! Just ask B.P.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/28/2011 12:54:53 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 1:20:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

When you know ahead of time that people are going to be slaughtered cause the man doing the slaughtering just told he was going to do it. And this same man has done this type of thing in the past.......Isn't inherent on humans to try and intervene? Not to mention as Christians. We stood by as Rwanda devolved into a bloodbath both as Americans and as members of the Unitied Nations. I would hope this puts us on a better path as Humans.
IIMO we have an obligation to take care of our citizens first. Our resources are limited.



So to be clear. If , say , the French show up in Canada tomorrow laying it waste....you are going to shrug and say "Not my problem?"
Or maybe invaders from Neptune will invade Baja California. Try something plausible.

At any rate, I'm of two minds, actually. We can't put out every fire. If we strengthen ourselves first (which is now highly unlikely since the fascists are seizing power), we will have more resources to devote to trying to end atrocities in the future.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 1:48:01 PM   
flcouple2009


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Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:

At the end of the day, when should the USA, EVER become involved in any war unless we are being attacked or threatened of being attacked?
ORIGINAL: Marini


I do believe we have friends and allies where it would be appropriate to come to their aid if they were attacked.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 2:23:23 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Not just appropriate....we are bound by treaty in some cases.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 2:34:30 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

At the end of the day, when should the USA, EVER become involved in any war unless we are being attacked or threatened of being attacked?
ORIGINAL: Marini


I do believe we have friends and allies where it would be appropriate to come to their aid if they were attacked.



Flcpl, correct, the European countries are our allies but they've let their militaries shrink *so much* in the last twenty years that when someone says "NATO" they may as well be saying "The U.S."
If (anyone) should have interceded in Bosnia/Kosovo it should have been them not us.
They need to start building up their military again and not "depending" on the U.S. to foot the massive bill.
This country simply cannot afford to be going around the world getting involved in other people's problems.
(We're) not the "Big Kid on the block" anymore, China is.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 3:21:15 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Both Obama and Biden said many times that Bush didn't have the constitutional authority to invade Iraq. I guess things change when you get elected and have to make decisions and not just shoot your mouth off trying to get elected. Obama has no problem invading a country now.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 3:22:35 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		You are an idiot. How are we invading Libya?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Why should the USA be involved in ANY war, unless a... - 3/28/2011 3:27:11 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		I get the Pacific war. How about Europe? Why'd we go? Our dog wasn't in that fight. Sure a few million people were slaughtered....but did it effect us? No...-

So friends that were getting hacked up by people from Mass in New Hampshire...you'd just go ahead and give them tickets to disney world?

Not going to argue Iraq and Afghanistan. He bought a lemon from Dubya. Either put the money into it to fix it or put it on the scrap heap. He chose the former.

When two kids were fighting on the playground and one kid was getting the shit beat outta him. You didnt step in?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 40
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