RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 6:53:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee




Everything bad is the fault of Western ideals.

The skewed logic goes something like:

A guy in Florida, USA, burning a Koran is culpable for crazy terrorists beheading Norwegian women in Kandahar.

This despite the "convert or die" belief of the Taliban.

Of course these deaths could have ALL been prevented if Jones had not burned a book or we would all just convert. [8|]


Much as I hate letting the facts spoil a good rant, I feel they ought to be corrected:
1. The killings ocurred in Mazar-I-Sharif, not Kandahar. Kandahar is at the other end of the country. Confusing the two is like confusing the locations of Chicago and LA.
2. Mazar-I-Sharif is not a Taliban area. There are racial (Tadjik vs Pathan) religious (Shia vs Sunni) linguistic (Darsi vs Pashto) differences between the Taliban and most of Mazar's residents.
3. The Taliban has ruled Mazar for a couple of years (1998-2001) at the cost of thousands of casualties. They lost control in Nov 2001. Taliban activity in the area has been occasional and limited since then.
4. Since when did burning books or deliberately provoking Muslims qualify as "western ideals"?

The extent and nature of these errors offer insight into the quality of the analysis and conclusions informed by such errors. Put bluntly, it suggests that the person who wrote these errors doesn't know what they were talking about.

That is confirmed by the general idiocy of the post.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazar-I-Sharif



thompsonx -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 6:55:07 PM)

quote:

Do a search on violence against Christians.


Do a search on violence by christians



thompsonx -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 7:09:53 PM)

quote:

I thought you were gonna iggy his masterful baiting(or something)


Who, exactly, are you accusing of being a master bator?



thompsonx -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 7:14:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You wished a painful death on "Hanoi Jane" for endangering our troops.

Why do you not wish the same for this asshole?


Hanoi Jane gave aid and comfort to the enemy. (Also known as treason.)

Terry Jones did not.

Article 3 Section 3:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.





The u.s. had not declared war on vietnam ...no war no treason



thompsonx -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 7:15:18 PM)

quote:

Hanoi burned America.


When?



Lucylastic -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 7:20:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I thought you were gonna iggy his masterful baiting(or something)


Who, exactly, are you accusing of being a master bator?

not you , where the bloody hell have you been?




slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 7:21:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

The further point is that any form of appeasement leads to escalating demands (which is why negotiating with terrorists is such a bad idea). Rewarding bad behavior begets bad bad bad behavior.


It would appear that you also were against the britts negotiating with Adams,Franklin and Madison (who had all been convicted in absentia of treason and terrorism.)
Not that I disagree with the point you are trying to make here....but I was not aware of any proceedings,conducted in absentia or not,that resulted in any convictions of Adams,Franklin ,Madison or for that matter any of the other "traitors" to the crown.



rulemylife -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 7:29:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
Maybe not when you've got occupying forces from half-way round the world in your country.

It's being occupied because Mullah Omar allowed terrorist training camps in that country, so let's not pretend this is imperialism.

That's why it was occupied but since the terrorists have since found other places there hasn't been a good reason to be there for a long while.

We are just putting off the inevitable through fear of coming to the realisation so much of it was a complete waste of life.

Also I'd add that Pakistan used to be full of moderates, now they are having members of their parliament killed by extremists. That isn't progress, there was no risk of the happening prior to 2003. Everything we touch turns to crap. What we are missing and what we have always failed to recognise is how these wars inspire people in the region.



As I said earlier, the Taliban is still strong and the Taliban sponsored the terrorists.

So yes, there is a good reason to still be there.

What do you think is going to happen if we pull out?

Exactly the same thing that happened before we went in.



stellauk -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 8:31:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

As I said earlier, the Taliban is still strong and the Taliban sponsored the terrorists.



The same can be said of the Americans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So yes, there is a good reason to still be there.



Agreed. Good to keep the cogs in the machinery of the weapons industry moving even if it is at the expense of the US economy. Besides it provides an excuse for Americans not to face up to and deal with their irrational hatred and fear of Muslims, which, it could be argued, is what keeps society going - irrational fear and hatred of a common perceived enemy. A bit like the Russians during the Cold War, isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

What do you think is going to happen if we pull out?



On the international stage Americans will regain some of their credibility by admitting they were wrong. A number of US military service families will be reunited and not have to live in fear for their loved ones. The money saved can be used to help rebuild the US economy. The Taliban will go back to being a bunch of religious nutters holed up in the mountains in the middle of nowhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Exactly the same thing that happened before we went in.



Just like the same thing which is happening on a larger scale in places like Iran, Bahrain, and Pakistan.

Has the US military interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan brought any liberation or change for the people of Kurdistan? No it hasn't. They are still as oppressed today as they ever was. Has it helped improve things for the people in Baluchistan? No it hasn't. They are still being oppressed and killed by Pakistani forces supported by the Brits and the Americans.

Go after Gaddafi in Libya while ignoring Mugabe, a few others in Africa, not to mention Lukashenko in Belarus. Don't worry about them, they don't have much oil or anything to offer, so I guess it's not really that important, is it?

Thing is there was also 7/7 here in London. The post-mortem reports are truly horrific. But you know what? Things were back to normal within a week here. Nobody is going round sounding off about 'ragheads' and 'towelheads', nobody here feels the need to burn copies of the Koran to exercise their freedom of speech.

Also, it's funny how Al Qaeda has been a lot less active since Obama became President.

I would even venture to say that there's quite a lot of Americans who also want to move on, who have far more important issues to think about - such as rebuilding the economy - and who no longer buy into the 'us against them evil Muslims' fascist claptrap.



thishereboi -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 8:42:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

First you would have to prove that he really believed anyone would be killed.


Do you think he knows now?


I doubt it



Aylee -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 9:59:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

He has already announced his intention to repeat the stunt.And right there is why it is an idiotic act....because it is nothing more than a stunt....one which unfortunately has repercussions .




This guy (crazy looking though he is - I finally went to look) has a 2.3 million FATWA on his head. He has GOT to be doing something right!

If you aint gotta FATWA, you are nobody.



Kirata -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/4/2011 10:09:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

This guy (crazy looking though he is - I finally went to look) has a 2.3 million FATWA on his head.

Whoa... 2.3 million US dollars??? Hmmm, I live in Florida, can't be too far. [:D]

K.



truckinslave -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 6:34:59 AM)

The Founders did not target women and children; the Brits negotiated with muskets, and events of 200+ years ago are at best strawmen. In this case, wispy weak strawmen.



truckinslave -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 6:37:48 AM)

Should read:
Jones burned the Koran; Hanoi Jane (metaphorically) burned America.



Moonhead -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 6:41:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Should read:
Jones burned the Koran; Hanoi Jane (metaphorically) burned America.

It's a lot easier to demonstrate the connection to a dozen Americans who are dead because of Jones' attention seeking than to find any specific Americans who died because of anything Jane Fonda said, I'm afraid.



slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 6:47:06 AM)

Actually though,Jane Fonda did more than  talk,she actually went to Hanoi,and allowed herself to be photographed sitting in/at an anti-aircraft weapon....helmet and all.The very same type of weapon that made flying "downtown" such a dangerous proposition for American pilots.
This was certainly a case of giving aid and comfort...I can certainly understand the vitriol veterans reserve for the mere mention of her name.
Though I ,like most of the youth of the nation(and I was but a pup at the time) opposed that war...what Jane Fonda did was beyond protest and did in fact border on something far more sinister.



Moonhead -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 6:58:59 AM)

Very true. I was just pointing out that (unlike the Jones boy), you can't really cite any of her countrymen who were killed over what she did.
Besides, if making propaganda broadcasts for Ho Chi Minh was good enough for the maverick Sorebutt, why does the right give Hanoi Jane such a hard time over it? At least she wasn't an enlisted member of the services who had not aiding and abetting the enemy listed as part of her job description...



slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 7:14:13 AM)

"A picture is worth a thousand words"..or something to that effect.That picture of Jane forever changed her name,in the minds of US serviceman at least to "Hanoi Jane" there she is sitting at the very weapons that were shooting at American pilots.Though the country was deeply divided by the war...for most that was a step too far.
Personally,and remember I was 14 when American involvement in Viet Nam ended,I could never see her in a movie again without that one picture flashing thru my mind....and I was well on my way to becoming what was considered part of the "counter-culture".
Growing up and hearing Walter Cronkite announce the rising toll of American dead in,as he famously phrased it ,"South East Asia" while eating one's dinner.,and she sitting at one of the weapons that theoretically added to that count was definitely over the top.
Your comparison to McCain is also unfair...McCain was a prisoner of war and subject to torture....Fonda traveled to Hanoi first class all the way...was treated as an honored guest and one would presume fed the best food available at the time in war torn Hanoi.There experiences could not have been more dissimilar .



ModTwentyOne -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 8:29:33 AM)

Please do not repost private mail, and do not post messages from banned users. Thank you.



slvemike4u -> RE: I hope that dumbass preacher in fl is proud of himself (4/5/2011 8:31:51 AM)

Sorry about that [:)]



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