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RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 6:50:00 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I think somebody has a crush on Lady Pact.


This made me laugh !!


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RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 6:53:18 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
I would, however, consider the above an open relationship, not poly.


I'm not so sure - I would say it can really be either, depending on the individual dynamics and agreements involved in the relationship.

Ultimately as long as the people who are in the relationship are on the same page and not being dishonest or deceptive with one another, how they label their relationship should be up to them.  Swinging isn't poly either, but some poly people are also swingers.  Open relationships aren't automatically poly, but that doesn't mean poly folks can't have them. 



I take your point. There are naturally overlaps in poly, open, and swinger type dynamics. To me, poly implies more of a relationship dynamic than occasional sex partners. But again, that is my take on things.


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RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 9:39:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32563
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
you never know... if you want to be absolutely sure, you have to become celibate, not poly...
to think you know the other person(s) totally, to think you have absolute control is a farce... you might believe in it and be totally sure about all the persons involved in your poly fidelity set up, but in truth it is just as risky as being in a monogamous marriage.
(what if clips wife has an 'accident', you have control over her too?)

i do not mean to say anybody should be paranoid... (heavens forbit, i lived with one, it was awful) but nobody really knows how faithful another is or will be in future.

Truthfully, I could address this point, but I don't think it would be very fair.  I do have the knowledge on this matter which supports why it won't happen, but it isn't appropriate for Me to advertise it.  I'll do the easier part instead.

No, I don't own her, but along with all of the other supporting evidence, I'm pretty sure that I can deal with somebody who was monogamous for eighteen years in their marriage before clip became poly.  In addition, it's also part of the deal.  She's aware that he can't remain collared to Me if the circumstances change.  That gives her a vested interest in the outcome. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

Of course, a person wants to have trust... and it is nice to be trusted too, it makes you feel secure
but trust is something very personal you either have it or you don't... nobody can really give it to you, you have to make your own mind up... or rely on your gut feeling.
And if someone trusts you and you know their trust is actually misplaced it might make you feel bad.

If i were to apply for the sub position in LadyPacts house then Mr Pact and Mrs Pact... and perhaps clip and Mrs clip too... would have to consider me.
They initially would just have to trust their idea of me... their gut feeling...
so they might give me a go... LP says she would not, but i am actually a quite agreeable person... i might get trough the rigorous testing... honestly.
If then Mr Pact likes me a lot but LadyPact finds out over the span of a few weeks or months that she is actually not that keen (clip has said on another thread that she does not share well) she might want to put a stop to it... maybe i would feel that my trust in the Pacts had been misplaced
maybe i would be sore enough to urge other subs to reconsider joining another household

who knows... pure speculation

Why on God's green earth would you believe that?  This isn't the Equal Opportunity Employment law.  Nobody HAS to consider anyone.  I also find it rather laughable that anybody would add someone to their household based on a "gut feeling" rather than getting to know them and how they feel on various issues, such as how poly works for them, what the rules of sexual engagement should be, if D/s applies and how that would work, and a number of other viewpoints a person has so that the potential household has the best opportunity to run smoothly.  If somebody would add a person to their poly family who has severely different moral and ethical standards on such an important issue, they have nobody but themselves to blame when the chaos ensues.

As to clip's comment that I don't share well, he was referencing the power sharing of two Dominants.  I've said this on a number of threads, but I'll repeat for those who want to take the comment out of context. 

MP and I do not "share" submissives.  Some D/D couples do that but we very much know that is not for us.  There's no joint ownership and no power conflict.  We feel that with our different styles of how we view dynamics, it would be very difficult for a submissive to be owned by both of us.  This means that clip and MP are friends and MP has no authority over him.  The same would apply the other way around.  Of course, we each still maintain veto power, the right to end a situation that doesn't work due to personality conflicts, etc.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 3:01:58 PM   
felicitousdove


Posts: 45
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Indiana
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Poly relationship are not for the faint of heart. They are not for everyone. Having said that; MH and I have been together for 10+ yrs now. We have tried several other partners over the years- originally trying to find a girl we BOTH liked and wanted to be involved with. What we learned: We both have very different tastes in women!

So our poly took on another shape/dimension. He has been with his 2nd girl for almost 4 yrs now. She is a very nice girl. I like her a lot, but not romantically/sexually. Do we ever deal with jealousy? Sometimes... But we WORK through it!

Hell even monogamous couples struggle with insecurity and jealousy issues from time to time. My brother in law gets jealous of the time my sister spends with her son! LOL Anytime someone is taking up time with the person you want to be with, or get attention from: be it monogamy or poly- there is bound to be moments of jealousy. That doesn't mean poly doesn't work- it means we as individuals are being selfish and demanding and need to let go a bit and think of someone other than ourselves sometimes.

Seriously 2 relationships and you are convinced poly doesnt work? Poly does work for many, and poly is WORK. Perhaps poly isn't for YOU- and based upon the posts... you seek a relationship where you can be more in the lime light and get more attention... So maybe you should stick with monogamy if that is what you need. Or, if you truly seek poly- TAKE TIME, get to know the persons involved. Know who you are and what you are looking for. Be secure in yourself and your place in a relationship and know that every day is not going to be blissful sunshine and rainbows... It never is no matter what relationship one is in. There are good days and bad days. But you can't just run when the going gets tough, or you dont get your way... Especially as a submissive. Because the root word to submissive is "submit". If you want to call the shots- be the Dominant.

Apologies for my bluntness- but scaring others off of poly, because you had a bad experience is not cool. Ok, so poly was a night mare for you. But it might be someone else's dream come true.

_____________________________

"I have often heard the phrse: ‘Sub/slaves are a reflection of their Dominants.’ So if our Dominants are strong, assertive, decisive, fully capable human beings, why should we as slaves be any different?"
~felicitous dove {MH}


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Profile   Post #: 224
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 5:55:35 PM   
yours4u2use


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interesting how you assume it was my fault


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RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 8:19:38 PM   
felicitousdove


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i made no assumptions or judgement. I draw upon my own experiences with these issues and can only go based upon that which you share.

_____________________________

"I have often heard the phrse: ‘Sub/slaves are a reflection of their Dominants.’ So if our Dominants are strong, assertive, decisive, fully capable human beings, why should we as slaves be any different?"
~felicitous dove {MH}


(in reply to yours4u2use)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/10/2011 11:21:50 PM   
yours4u2use


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my reply was not directed at you

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Profile   Post #: 227
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 3:37:45 AM   
Sunny27


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Right I'll tell you that if your going to playing with a couple who are new to this whole thing then you shoud just talk to them at first and find out if they are really into it.
Myself and my b.f. are into the possibilty of doing it. I've played with a few girls online.
My Master was really delighted that I wouldn't mind him having a second dub girl to play with esp. since he'd be getting even myself and her to play with each other!
The whole thing about Loyalty, Honesty and respect still does apply!!
Unless for both me and My Master we didn't know we could do all three for each other we wouldn't be interested in it. We're thinking of marraige in two years, so we're lucky being able to think like hat after only three years together!!
Loyalty,Honesty and Respect are a must in a relationship otherwsie things can get fecked up so you as a third should do them a favour and sit down and just talk to find if they really are up for it!

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 7:03:37 AM   
ranja


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
That gives her a vested interest in the outcome. 



of course if she perfers her husband to be 'owned' by you... she will not make a mistake or have an 'accident' to jeopardise his service to you... or will she?

Same same for the husband of Mr Pact's future sub...
if there ever will be one...
and i suspect more and more he will never be so lucky
based on:

quote:


Nobody HAS to consider anyone. 


i think clip was quite spot on when he mentioned you not sharing easily

all threads about a fem-sub experiencing difficulties in a triad with an established couple i have seen you comment in... you always asume the fem-sub is demanding too much or jealous or dishonest or simply does not know her place.

i think you are telling fibs when you say you would love for your husband to find his own sub...



(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 7:17:06 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
That gives her a vested interest in the outcome. 



of course if she perfers her husband to be 'owned' by you... she will not make a mistake or have an 'accident' to jeopardise his service to you... or will she?

Same same for the husband of Mr Pact's future sub...
if there ever will be one...
and i suspect more and more he will never be so lucky
based on:

quote:


Nobody HAS to consider anyone. 


i think clip was quite spot on when he mentioned you not sharing easily

all threads about a fem-sub experiencing difficulties in a triad with an established couple i have seen you comment in... you always asume the fem-sub is demanding too much or jealous or dishonest or simply does not know her place.

i think you are telling fibs when you say you would love for your husband to find his own sub...





As a "poly outsider with an interest" I find it rather curious, ranja, that you feel the need to justify yourself and your opinions regarding LadyPact's relationships. Why is that?


(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 8:10:34 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
of course if she perfers her husband to be 'owned' by you... she will not make a mistake or have an 'accident' to jeopardise his service to you... or will she?

If there's a medical miracle, ranja, I'll let you know. 

quote:

Same same for the husband of Mr Pact's future sub...
if there ever will be one...

The problem in this area is that MP doesn't invest himself the way that he should.  Female poly Dominants?  It's actually pretty easy.  We don't have to work nearly as hard.  Male poly Dominants have to court a submissive.  Problem is, he's not willing to do that. 

quote:

and i suspect more and more he will never be so lucky
based on:

LOL.  Do you think that I'm the one who solely decided on the moral and ethical standards for the household?  His are higher than Mine due to his career.  You'd be surprised what all is involved in that.

quote:

i think clip was quite spot on when he mentioned you not sharing easily

You're right.  I don't share power, ever.  The times that we've been approached by female submissives who have wanted to join the household because they wanted Me as their Dominant in a co-ownership deal, were told that I wasn't willing to do that.  If MP gets a sub, it has to be on his own merits.  Not because he's riding My coattails.  It has to be because she wants to serve him.  Not Us.

quote:

all threads about a fem-sub experiencing difficulties in a triad with an established couple i have seen you comment in... you always asume the fem-sub is demanding too much or jealous or dishonest or simply does not know her place.

When I read threads or comment on them, I attempt to compare them to the way this household is run.  The gender of a secondary is insignificant to Me.  I don't pat folks on the head because they are female, more emotional, yadda, yadda, yadda.  It just doesn't register with Me. 

quote:

i think you are telling fibs when you say you would love for your husband to find his own sub...

Are you kidding?  Let's see.....

Anything the sub does in the household, I don't have to do anymore.

I (hopefully) get a friend out of the deal.

I don't have to spend My time at lifestyle events worrying that he needs company because he's bored shitless, falling asleep because I'm playing until 2:00 AM and his toybag never makes it out of the car.

There's someone in the household that identifies with clip from the submissive perspective.

All of the stuff that I've said for years that I'm not willing to do because I'm "not submissive" is filled.

He gets to share in the joy that I've had with submissives for years.

We get a bigger family. 

How many of these do you really need?  LOL.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 8:14:14 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
As a "poly outsider with an interest" I find it rather curious, ranja, that you feel the need to justify yourself and your opinions regarding LadyPact's relationships. Why is that?

Sometimes, we ask questions when we already know the answer.

As usual, great catch, Bones.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 8:25:07 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh



As a "poly outsider with an interest" I find it rather curious, ranja, that you feel the need to justify yourself and your opinions regarding LadyPact's relationships. Why is that?




They are having a discussion and it's what happens during a discussion, ranja sees things from her perspective, LP sees the same things from a completely other perspective. I can sort of understand where both come from and maintain that poly is not for everybody (it certainly wouldn't be for me, jealousy, more than 2 people in the bedroom is a crowd, far far too complicated, I have a hard enough time getting on with one partner, etc.) but if it works for people, more power to them. Personally I think a lot of people are enchanted by the idea of being poly and find the reality is not quite as ideal, just like people dream of the ideal relationship, where the guy never leaves the toothpaste open, the toilet up, forgets to take the bins out, etc....


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 8:33:43 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh



As a "poly outsider with an interest" I find it rather curious, ranja, that you feel the need to justify yourself and your opinions regarding LadyPact's relationships. Why is that?




They are having a discussion and it's what happens during a discussion, ranja sees things from her perspective, LP sees the same things from a completely other perspective. I can sort of understand where both come from and maintain that poly is not for everybody (it certainly wouldn't be for me, jealousy, more than 2 people in the bedroom is a crowd, far far too complicated, I have a hard enough time getting on with one partner, etc.) but if it works for people, more power to them. Personally I think a lot of people are enchanted by the idea of being poly and find the reality is not quite as ideal, just like people dream of the ideal relationship, where the guy never leaves the toothpaste open, the toilet up, forgets to take the bins out, etc....



I understand this is a discussion and of course you'll have various opinions being voiced. I just think it's rather odd that ranja feels this need to be so dogged about this particular person and her relationships. Especially when I read sarcastic references to it on other threads. Kind of silly, in my opinion.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 5/11/2011 8:36:35 AM >

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
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RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 8:37:45 AM   
LadyPact


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I don't find it a drag.  I'm actually rather flattered.  Here I am, a non bisexual chick, with whom women are interested?  That's pretty flipping cool, when you think about it.

It's always good to be wanted, don't you think?  Not everybody is, and that's a terrible shame. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 8:45:40 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32563
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
I understand this is a discussion and of course you'll have various opinions being voiced. I just think it's rather odd that ranja feels this need to be so dogged about this particular person and her relationships. Especially when I read sarcastic references to it on other threads. Kind of silly, in my opinion.

I'm very much hoping that some educational value will come from it.  There might be something that I will say that will spark a light-bulb.  You never know.

If anything, I hope folks will make their standards higher, and not rush into situations with people who really can't quite make the bar.  Why settle? 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 9:10:38 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
I understand this is a discussion and of course you'll have various opinions being voiced. I just think it's rather odd that ranja feels this need to be so dogged about this particular person and her relationships. Especially when I read sarcastic references to it on other threads. Kind of silly, in my opinion.

I'm very much hoping that some educational value will come from it.  There might be something that I will say that will spark a light-bulb.  You never know.

If anything, I hope folks will make their standards higher, and not rush into situations with people who really can't quite make the bar.  Why settle? 



LP,

I respect ranja's right to do it differently if she so chooses; however there were some nasty posts aimed at another poster who wishes to do it your way that I thought were uncalled for.

She asked questions on things she didn't persoannly understand and received some very personal digs.
I find it baffling that same person who trashed her offered you respect for what you have.

I am sure that there are some people who would hate my relationship.

That is okay; it is my relationship.

As for the past perceived mistakes of others, I think it is rotten to drag them up.

I see our journeys within relationships to be a lot like the title of one of Sarah MacLachlan's albums:
Fumbling Towards Ecstasy

_____________________________

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(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 9:30:14 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32563
Status: offline
I know nothing about pulled posts.  I'm not a Mod here.  I was off this thread (and others) for several days.  Some will have to deal with the fact that I couldn't pay attention.  (Real life stuff, and all that.)

I'm sure there are people out there who would hate our relationship, too.  Not everybody has the kind of fortitude that I ask for.  Frankly, sometimes, I'll bet it sucks.  I wouldn't want to do it.  I don't have the right personality.

At the same time, when I make mistakes in life, I take responsibility.  Is it easy?  No.  It's fucking hard.  Still, it makes you not want to make yourself go through that again.  I know I play a part.  The universe doesn't just "happen" to us.  As adults, we all make choices, all of the time.

Sometimes, we can learn from the mistakes of others.  Sometimes, we can't.  If someone can't learn to avoid the mistakes of others..... Hey!  Feel free.  You'll learn your own lessons and suffer the consequences.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 9:35:57 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
I understand this is a discussion and of course you'll have various opinions being voiced. I just think it's rather odd that ranja feels this need to be so dogged about this particular person and her relationships. Especially when I read sarcastic references to it on other threads. Kind of silly, in my opinion.

I'm very much hoping that some educational value will come from it.  There might be something that I will say that will spark a light-bulb.  You never know.

If anything, I hope folks will make their standards higher, and not rush into situations with people who really can't quite make the bar.  Why settle? 



Honestly, LP, it's because of the time you've taken throughout this and other threads regarding poly relationships that I've been able to reconsider my original opinion of such a dynamic for myself. I was briefly involved in such a relationship many years ago and was completely unprepared for the emotions it brought up in me (not particulary positive ones, mind you), but I've come to realize that was due to my own inexperience and lack of understanding.

I rushed and I learned what the consequences are in doing so. To relate back to the original topic of this thread and the OP...the best thing a person can do before getting involved in any type of relationship dynamic is to know yourself and those who will be involved to the best of your ability.

This has been a eye-opening thread....for more reasons than the one I brought up in my first post.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 5/11/2011 9:36:41 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: i urge all sub/slaves to seriously reconsider - 5/11/2011 12:04:08 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
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Alright, nobody asks you to buy "everything" - though I didn't think LP was selling anything. Just thinking that we (LP and myself) come from completely different angles, meaning she's poly, I'm not, she's into protocol, I'm not, she's strictly heterosexual, I'm not, yet we pretty much agree on a lot, she takes safety issues pretty seriously, she takes maintaining toys and hygiene VERY seriously, loyalty - also non negotiable for both of us. So why the aggro? Yes, girls hit on her, so what? And Mr P can't get his own sub, well you know it's much harder for a guy, in fact LP and myself had a discussion not too long ago about how strange it seems that we both can turn up at places where they don't know us and subs (male and female but predominantly male) will cue up because we have the clothes and toys, we were both marvelling that they don't even know if we borrowed them from somebody else, we could both be clueless bimbos and maim them, doesn't even seem to cross their minds. It's not being special, it's just being female, not desperately ugly and having the right toys and possibly some sort of sex appeal. It's just life, deal with it... Not to mention the fact that male subs in general seem to be a bit more desperate... (generalization I know, but please go to any fetish event and tell me it's not true - or just go to a bar and look at the difference how guys and girls behave...)

As form Mrs Clip, I don't know her so I can only venture guesses, but some people are not interested in sex, or are not interested in sex with anybody else but their partner, since I'm monogamous, I wouldn't say that's 100% true for myself, but I made the rule (also for myself) that if I should be so interested in having sex with another person that it becomes close to unbearable, that something is wrong with the relationship, so I would take it up with my partner and possibly split. Just the way I am wired.

Bottom line is, we are all different, what works for LP and her family wouldn't work for me, now since it works for them, more power to them... I doubt I'd have the energy they invest into their relationship...




(edited in concert with the user-Mod21)

< Message edited by ModTwentyOne -- 5/12/2011 1:39:08 PM >


_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 240
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