RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark

RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 8:28:00 AM)
quote: The real question to ponder would be why this story is so prevalent in history. Because floods happen, and people want answers. AND because we traveled a lot more in ancient times than people realize. Elephant sculptures in Denmark. Polynesian influences in Africa. Mongolian ones in North America. Dragons drawn in medieval France and China. We just aren't as a creative a species as we like to believe. We follow patterns, everywhere and time.

Musicmystery -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 8:32:31 AM)
quote: I tried to explain that a story needn't be literally true for us to draw lessons from it, pointing out that they liked Harry Potter even though we know quidditch isn't real. This is really the take-home message--for all literature, sacred and secular. I don't think the stories in the Upanishads are literally true either--but they are often "ah-ha" moments.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 9:31:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: The real question to ponder would be why this story is so prevalent in history. Because floods happen, and people want answers. AND because we traveled a lot more in ancient times than people realize. Elephant sculptures in Denmark. Polynesian influences in Africa. Mongolian ones in North America. Dragons drawn in medieval France and China. We just aren't as a creative a species as we like to believe. We follow patterns, everywhere and time. Yes, but I have had more than one good Christian (our relatives are very far right fundie) argue that this only proves that the bible is correct and Noah really did exist, he really did build the boat, and he really did have all of the worlds creatures on it.

mnottertail -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 9:41:24 AM)
You can tell your fundie cuzzes that the inhabitants of SvarthAlfheim in Scandinavia were actually Phonecians who we went to get by way of ship, on one of our short jaunts. We were an equal opportunity enslaver. And the cauldron Hvergelmir filled the Ginnungagap, not some flood from a pissed off middle eastern clown god.

Musicmystery -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 9:51:55 AM)
quote: Yes, but I have had more than one good Christian argue that . . . See, this is why I think discussing such matters as if a debate is silly on both sides. Plenty of Americans can't find Canada on a map, or identify from whom the Colonies won independence. Does that say something about all Americans? No--you'd dismiss that for what it is, perhaps discussing the subset, but without using it to color the whole. Anecdotes are poor substitutes for arguments, beyond offering illustrative color...but not as stand-ins for valid evidence. We could pile up story after story--but they would still be a diversion, not an objective look at the subject matter. The side point that some people aren't so bright (or at least no so logical) is noted and accepted. They are everywhere, in every pursuit. And so are the balanced, the perceptive, the visionary, the inspirational, the intelligent, the easy-going.....etc. etc. etc. etc.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 10:25:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery See, this is why I think discussing such matters as if a debate is silly on both sides. So do I and we would be happy to never discuss the subject. Unfortunately they see it as their duty to save the poor lost sheep of the family and constantly bombard us with "stuff".

Musicmystery -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 10:38:34 AM)
You just missed the point. It's alright, though. Be well. [A friend likes to say, "You don't have to attend every argument to which you're invited."] [:D]

flcouple2009 -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 10:57:29 AM)
No I didn't miss anything. The vast majority of the time they are ignored. Then they start attempting to "instruct" the kids and the problems begin. Not all arguments can be avoided. Thank you and be well

Musicmystery -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 11:06:03 AM)
~FR~ This short article might interest some of you: A Few Kind Words for Superstition by Robertson Davies

Aylee -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 12:22:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee I will note that the OP has singled out Christians to mock. Why not the Jews and Muslims too? Because it was posted on Easter morning. You will note that on any given Christian holiday there are anti Christian belief threads started on this board. This was last years bash the Christians on Easter thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3146070/mpage_1/tm.htm It's a pattern around here. Christmas time we get lots more tho. Many love to mock and bash during Christmas time, it's an absolute feast for some. Everything from how insulting a Christmas tree is to how stupid anyone is for believing in a Christian God. mbmbn Hmm. . . So when are we going to have some Islamic bashing during Ramadan and some Jew bashing during Yom Kippur? BTW, thank you for your response.

PeonForHer -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 12:42:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee So when are we going to have some Islamic bashing during Ramadan and some Jew bashing during Yom Kippur? To be fair, Aylee, most of us using this board were brought up as Christians. If we're no longer Christians, we're going to have a lot of bad feeling to vent about what we now see as the propaganda, lies and indoctrination that was dumped on us in the past - at a time when most of us were innocent children and didn't have the mental capacity to counter it all.

tazzygirl -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 12:46:22 PM)
quote: So do I and we would be happy to never discuss the subject. Unfortunately they see it as their duty to save the poor lost sheep of the family and constantly bombard us with "stuff". Its called an "intervention". Do you bring up your beliefs that they are in disagreement with? Think hard about that. It doesnt have to be religious. Now, you can do what I had to do. Tell them the next time they start in on religion, you are leaving, then proceed to do so. If that fails, quit inviting them. Im sure the arguments about their beliefs arent enjoyable to them either.

tazzygirl -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 12:48:48 PM)
quote: If we're no longer Christians, we're going to have a lot of bad feeling to vent about what we now see as the propaganda, lies and indoctrination that was dumped on us in the past - at a time when most of us were innocent children and didn't have the mental capacity to counter it all. I disagree with that. I was brought up catholic, attended catholic school. I no longer attend, my parents do. I feel no need to vent.

mnottertail -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 12:57:18 PM)
How do you feel about that, in genuflection? FatherConfessor

PeonForHer -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 1:13:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I disagree with that. I was brought up catholic, attended catholic school. I no longer attend, my parents do. I feel no need to vent. It's good that you feel that way, but plenty don't. Some believe, with I think plausible argument, that the damage done by the inculcation of religion that they received as children, is incalculable. They're grabbed at an age when they're trying to learn the rudiments of reason in order to be filled with a body of ideas that is unreasonable at its core. But the psychological damage goes way beyond this irrationality because teachings in the Bible are replete with what, basically, most people now consider to be ugly, immoral ideas. It's worth checking out just how much of this evil is purveyed in the Bible - try this for instance. My memory of Bible teachings when I was a kid is tinged with horror - of utter cruelty - at a time when my parents would never have let me read any (other) book or see any film that conveyed such loathsome ideas.

tazzygirl -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 1:31:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail How do you feel about that, in genuflection? FatherConfessor ~swoons

tazzygirl -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 1:34:30 PM)
I meet many people like me. No longer "devout" living their own lives, getting by without nightmares of a parochial... or other religious... education. Its like being raped... which I have been. You get angry, you vent, you deal, but eventually you have to push past it and start living again. I wont belittle what you feel, because I dont know if you feel that way or not, so I have to take your word for it. I do know that anger can hold back a spirit like nothing else. Eventually, you have to let go.

tazzygirl -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 1:36:13 PM)
quote: It's worth checking out just how much of this evil is purveyed in the Bible - try this for instance. Didnt you state on another thread that you had no idea just how bad the bible was until you read that site? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3648394 No offence, but you are holding that site like its a new bible to you.

Aylee -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 3:09:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee So when are we going to have some Islamic bashing during Ramadan and some Jew bashing during Yom Kippur? To be fair, Aylee, most of us using this board were brought up as Christians. If we're no longer Christians, we're going to have a lot of bad feeling to vent about what we now see as the propaganda, lies and indoctrination that was dumped on us in the past - at a time when most of us were innocent children and didn't have the mental capacity to counter it all. Ah right. . . Muslims and Jews have no indoctrination. I will keep that in mind. [8\|] Seriously Peon, I like you, but at some point you are going to have to realize that what happened to you as a child is something that you can choose or not choose to affect you as an adult. Edited to move a negation.

Kirata -> RE: Biblical Myth: Noah's Ark (4/25/2011 3:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer To be fair, Aylee, most of us using this board were brought up as Christians. If we're no longer Christians, we're going to have a lot of bad feeling to vent about what we now see as the propaganda, lies and indoctrination that was dumped on us in the past - at a time when most of us were innocent children and didn't have the mental capacity to counter it all. I think it safe to say that what you were taught was sincerely believed, and that it was urged upon you in genuine concern for your well-being. Your beliefs may have changed later in life, but this bitter gratuitous crap about having been 'propagandized' and 'lied' to does not reflect an improved grasp of reality or a kinder personality having resulted therefrom. K.

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