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RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:01:30 AM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
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Everyone has weaknesses... and usually we recognize such weaknesses in ourselves before others take notice of them. If someone wishes to post on a board and display his weaknesses (I mean incoherent thoughts, not a couple of spelling errors), it's his right to do so. It's also my right to assume that the larger the display of 'weakness' the less desire he has to improve on his weakness, or maybe just laziness in not proofreading is the culprit. I would give a post written at a twelfth-grade English level more credibility than one which seems written by a fifth grader.

I am sure there are instances when some, due to a handicap, eyesight, etc. have more knowledge of the English language than their written product displays, but when reading what a stranger has written on a web site, if I can't read it, I can't read it. If I were trying to communicate to you now in French, I would make no sense at all. Would that make me stupid, or uneducated? No. it wouldn't, but I wouldn't expect you to read my grammatical mess and hold it with much regard. Everyone makes some errors sometimes, and we are all entitled, but posts which are written in jargon can only be measured by the rules of grammar and spelling along with 'norms' which others can at least understand. It's a written means of communication, there have to be some standards or no one will understand anything. Anyone can post, but not everyone will want to read... fair enough for me.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 101

RE: correct grammar - 5/13/2006 12:10:30 AM

michaelGA2

Posts: 1533
Joined: 4/26/2006
Status: offline

i often find European script to be hard to read, i mean, their useage of extra letters in various words such as humour/humor. maybe it's just me.

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(in reply to MistressLorelei)

Post #: 102

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:15:05 AM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Poor grammar and bad spelling are a huge turn off if the person's mother tongue is English. To me it conveys a lack of education or intelligence. If English is a second language I'm a lot more lenient. I have received notes from people who did not have English a first language and their spelling and grammar weren't perfect, but good.

It seems you are just beginning to learn English, or perhaps speak it but aren't comfortable with written English. I think as long as your first e-mail to someone lets them know this, people will be understanding and not think of you as stupid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrpettigrew

as i can not spell in english good do not have a spell checker and problems finding the correct words in english to express serlf to others in a style of great intrest i am courious as to the fact people make such a big deal over these things and show less concern about the person involved then the grammer used. I am not refuring to rudness but simple spelling nothing more . i guress for all here or the greater part all who do not write the language to their standards are excluded as fools or stupid . Comments welcome ,

(in reply to mrpettigrew)

Post #: 103

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:15:56 AM

HarryVanWinkle

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

Everyone has weaknesses... and usually we recognize such weaknesses in ourselves before others take notice of them. If someone wishes to post on a board and display his weaknesses (I mean incoherent thoughts, not a couple of spelling errors), it's his right to do so. It's also my right to assume that the larger the display of 'weakness' the less desire he has to improve on his weakness, or maybe just laziness in not proofreading is the culprit. I would give a post written at a twelfth-grade English level more credibility than one which seems written by a fifth grader.

I am sure there are instances when some, due to a handicap, eyesight, etc. have more knowledge of the English language than their written product displays, but when reading what a stranger has written on a web site, if I can't read it, I can't read it. If I were trying to communicate to you now in French, I would make no sense at all. Would that make me stupid, or uneducated? No. it wouldn't, but I wouldn't expect you to read my grammatical mess and hold it with much regard. Everyone makes some errors sometimes, and we are all entitled, but posts which are written in jargon can only be measured by the rules of grammar and spelling along with 'norms' which others can at least understand. It's a written means of communication, there have to be some standards or no one will understand anything. Anyone can post, but not everyone will want to read... fair enough for me.

Mistress Loralei,

As I often say, the best thing about the internet is that it allows ANYBODY to become a published writer. And the worst thing about the internet is that it allows ANYBODY to become a published writer.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)

Post #: 104

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:17:44 AM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

The one that always gets me is when someone writes me seeking a "dominate women." Makes me want to scream a little.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's not simply a matter of making errors. It's the KIND of errors that people make. For example, there isn't very much that pisses me off more than when someone misuses or misspells a fancy word. If you don't know how to use a word, don't use it. Another thing that amuses me to no end is when people try to write something insulting and include a blatant error in the message. Just how insulted is one expected to be when the message is written in Dumassese? Then there are errors that show that the person just doesn't give a fuck. How seriously do you expect someone to take your message when you obviously don't take it very seriously yourself?

Sure, when there's something insightful behind the errors, I pay attention too. But, frankly, when something is written poorly, it usually doesn't communicate any brilliant ideas, either. It just seems to work out that way.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 105

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:31:03 AM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
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I don't have dyslexia, but the spell check portion of my brain generally falls asleep after midnight. All kinds of crazy words come out later than that

I think even the most grammar conscious person is forgiving of typos, or someone who has challenges with the language. After a while some mistakes are just pure laziness though, and those are the ones that are particularly annoying

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
For me it hits when I'm stressed to buggery, dead tired or in a shit load of pain. Atleastof the three is present most of the time....

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 106

RE: correct grammar - 5/13/2006 12:31:34 AM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA2

i often find European script to be hard to read, i mean, their useage of extra letters in various words such as humour/humor. maybe it's just me.

I was just saying today how I love the extra flourish colour vs color gives a sentence. I do not mind this at all, as I can understand what it means and it's the appropriate usage when speaking English in some other regions. American English can have a rather dull side.

Harry, I do like and second your comment, even if you turned my name into a spelling error... damned proper nouns. :)

Edited for typo, because I care

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 5/13/2006 12:34:54 AM >

(in reply to michaelGA2)

Post #: 107

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:49:02 AM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

At this point I'm going to be unPC. You've been given lots of links to free spell check programs. If English is your first language, you do not have a learning disability, and made it through any type of US educational system past the age of 12 or 13 I'd say you are indeed stupid or just incredibly lazy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrpettigrew

What i said was the following:

"as i can not spell in english good do not have a spell checker and problems finding the correct words in english to express serlf to others in a style of great intrest i am courious as to the fact people make such a big deal over these things and show less concern about the person involved then the grammer used. I am not refuring to rudness but simple spelling nothing more . i guress for all here or the greater part all who do not write the language to their standards are excluded as fools or stupid . Comments welcome ",

in that i never said english was not my first language or that i had mental problems. I am gratefull that the aspect of disabiliets in this area was brought up as it is a fact for many .still and all i can not spell in english good and have problems finding the correct words to express myself . This is obviousley true as the misconceptions the original post gave many

(in reply to mrpettigrew)

Post #: 108

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 12:59:10 AM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

This wasn't directed to me, but for me saying "I'm a dominant" could be a sign of laziness in not adding woman, man, girl, boy, etc. after it. "I'm a dominate" implies ignorance because you can't stick anything after it that would make sense. Try it:

"I'm a dominant woman" makes sense
"I'm a dominate woman" huh?

"I'm a dominant" A dominant what? Not a complete sentence, but you get the gist. Also, a lot of people just say "I'm dominant" which makes complete sense.

"I'm a dominate" You're a verb? Try it with "I'm dominate" and it just gets worse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And what's the difference? I don't follow. More people say "dominant." A sizable minority says "dominate." That's about all there is to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

It bothers me not at all when somebody uses the adjective, "Dominant" or "Submissive" as a noun. To me, worrying about that is splitting hairs. But, when somebody claims lots of experience in this lifestyle and refers to himself as "a dominate," let me just say, that I view whatever they say with very little, umm, credulity.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 109

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 6:05:34 AM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Having a brother who types with a stick attached to a headband, I'm the last person who will disparage someone's grammar or spelling knowing that there may be any number of reasons for improper grammar. I do get my panties twisted when someone storms into the forums proclaiming their brilliance and magna cum laude degrees in English then proceed to make errors of their own or worse, make up words which don't exist! If you are going to attack someone's grammar and/or spelling, better make sure your own are letter perfect or it will get called every time. Better yet, don't attack in the first place. ;)

Celeste

I have to agree with you about the made up words. They absolutely infurify me.

But seriously, I also agree with the rest of your message. Grammer and spelling mistakes only really bother me when someone touts how educated and intelligent he is.

Although one that really does bug me is profiles in which a person claims to have years of experience and training as a "Dominate."

As a self proclaimed grammar and spelling freak, I have made my uncompromising position clear earlier in this thread. However, I have to confess a fondness for people making up words. For example, Steven Colbert made up the term truthiness on The Colbert Report and I think it's a perfect term for our current administration's communication policies. When my daughter was in middle school, she told me that some of her friends were "discluding" her from an activitiy. Being discluded has entered the lexicon of our family because it is slightly funny and sounds great. To me, this is creativity and playfulness in language. Poor spelling and grammar are just laziness.
Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
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(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)

Post #: 110

RE: correct grammar - 5/13/2006 8:59:39 AM

HarryVanWinkle

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

Harry, I do like and second your comment, even if you turned my name into a spelling error... damned proper nouns. :)

Edited for typo, because I care

Mistress Lorelei,

I offer my most humble apology. Actually, when I type your name, I usually try to put the "i" before the last "e." Perhaps because there's no "c?"

I'm usually a better self editor than that and can only offer in eplanation what Ms 4u2spoil said in the post immediately above yours, "the spell check portion of my brain generally falls asleep after midnight."

I also tend to edit a lot of posts for typos after they're posted. Thank Goddess for that edit button, but it seems it's only available for a limited time.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)

Post #: 111

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 10:21:20 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

You mean you're NOT a dominate women?

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil

The one that always gets me is when someone writes me seeking a "dominate women." Makes me want to scream a little.

(in reply to 4u2spoil)

Post #: 112

RE: correct grammar - 5/13/2006 10:35:31 AM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

Mistress Lorelei,

I offer my most humble apology. Actually, when I type your name, I usually try to put the "i" before the last "e." Perhaps because there's no "c?"

I'm usually a better self editor than that and can only offer in eplanation what Ms 4u2spoil said in the post immediately above yours, "the spell check portion of my brain generally falls asleep after midnight."

I also tend to edit a lot of posts for typos after they're posted. Thank Goddess for that edit button, but it seems it's only available for a limited time.

Apology accepted. I enjoyed yor lengthy rationale... cute.

My name is indeed a contradiction in the 'i before e rule', but I have found it useful in keeping people on their toes.

(in reply to HarryVanWinkle)

Post #: 113

RE: correct grammer - 5/13/2006 11:22:55 AM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Well, maybe during some times of the month when I'm bloated and feel like there's someone else inside me. Other than that, I'm sticking with dominant woman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You mean you're NOT a dominate women?

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 114

RE: correct grammar - 5/13/2006 7:38:01 PM

HarryVanWinkle

Posts: 1720
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

My name is indeed a contradiction in the 'i before e rule', but I have found it useful in keeping people on their toes.

I can think of all sorts of great ways you could keep me on my toes, but since many of them involve ropes and chains and winches and stuff, not to mention being on the same side of the continent, I'll refrain from elaborating.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)

Post #: 115

RE: correct grammer - 5/14/2006 5:46:02 PM

orfunboi

Posts: 1223
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

Wow, i read it and understood it. All but the first sentence. For some reason the first time through, i thought is said "If you can read this, you have a straight mind to." That kind of scared me, but then when i looked at it again, i realized it said "strange mind". i feel much better, a strange mind i can live with, but i don't want a straight one....

(in reply to MistressLove999)

Post #: 116

RE: correct grammer - 5/14/2006 7:42:05 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all,

As a liberal arts educated individual who know what end of a sentence a period was put on, I was drafted (forced) to be the technical editor for a large group of computer engineers.

I didnt want the job; I had my own stuff to do. I was, however, the only person in the group who could actually translate their inarticulate twaddle into something which was presentable to the Customer. Or so my boss thought.

The problem with a post that is rife with spelling errors, grammatical errors, punctuation errors, run on sentences, too many LOL or ROFLMAO and the like, is that it appears to most readers that the person writing it has not put much time or thought or energy into the post. If they are not willing to spend time writing it correctly, I dont feel particularly interested in reading it closely enough to get the gist of the post.

Having said that, English is my first language, I have been fluent (to the point I was thinking in the language) in Dutch in the past, as well as having taken Spanish.

What I would recommend to the person who started this thread. Write out what you want to say. Read it out loud to yourself. Perhaps type the text in a word processor to do spell check. See if you are making the point you want to make. And, at such time as you are satisfied that it appears correct...

Post it.

There really is no hurry to post something online, and the people you might turn off because of poor understanding of the English language may be the people you really want to read the post.

Good luck!

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 117

RE: correct grammer - 5/17/2007 5:27:12 PM

maledave7

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/4/2006
Status: offline

I use a word processor on my computer to write what I am trying to say. On tools, it has a spelling and grammar check. I also have a Dictionary on my desk next to my computer. I do make mistakes sometimes. I feel that it is important to do your best. Your profile and your replies on these forums is how people get to know you. These are the first windows of opportunity to make a good impression.

(in reply to mrpettigrew)

Post #: 118

RE: correct grammer - 5/17/2007 7:13:28 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrpettigrew

as i can not spell in english good do not have a spell checker and problems finding the correct words in english to express serlf to others in a style of great intrest i am courious as to the fact people make such a big deal over these things and show less concern about the person involved then the grammer used. I am not refuring to rudness but simple spelling nothing more . i guress for all here or the greater part all who do not write the language to their standards are excluded as fools or stupid . Comments welcome ,

Mrpettigrew, i work to understand a post i choose to read, and if i know the author does not speak English as a 1st language i try even harder.

If You dropped me off in some non-English speaking country i doubt i'd ever be capable of writing, much less speaking. i have great admiration for those who master English as a 2nd language.

Be well.

_____________________________

(in reply to mrpettigrew)

Post #: 119

RE: correct grammer - 5/17/2007 9:45:36 PM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrpettigrew

as i can not spell in english good do not have a spell checker and problems finding the correct words in english to express serlf to others in a style of great intrest i am courious as to the fact people make such a big deal over these things and show less concern about the person involved then the grammer used. I am not refuring to rudness but simple spelling nothing more . i guress for all here or the greater part all who do not write the language to their standards are excluded as fools or stupid . Comments welcome ,

Hello mrpettigrew. I come from Canada, born there. Two official languages. If you went to Montreal, you would have to look real hard to find a unilingual person and that's ordinary folk.

I work as a corrections officer and all my coworkers (as I )speak 3 languages: French, English, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and even Haitian Creole is spoken. All this by coincidence. There are eight of us and none (ninguno, aucun) were assigned because of language skills.

If the languages skills of the American English forums police would be known, it would not be very stellar I assure you! If someone has an 'inadequate' level of fluency for bitching and ranting in English (à la américaine!) it offends someone? I call that being 'thinskinned' in communication. It is not 'your' problem, just do the best you can and little by little it will get better. It is called learning to write a language.

What I love the most is when the grammar police corrects words like colour, honour etc. If you're from the UK or some parts of Canada writing these 'ou' and you 'correct' these? you will only will wind up on the stupid list. (In UK they have tyres on their cars, in Us it's tires etc.)

I read your post and it's fine. Keep it coming and don't mind the police. RL.

PS: As for 'admiring' bilinguals 'efforts' and dishing the others for having the same problem? My grand father could not read or write (he 'decoded' letter by letter!), my father and mother had to quit primary school to help support their families...and they were not dislexics! Just food for thought before jumping to fucking conclusions.

Edit: I took out some 'explicatives'.

< Message edited by robertolapiedra -- 5/17/2007 10:16:53 PM >

(in reply to mrpettigrew)

Post #: 120

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