Slavery v art

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subject2Female -> Slavery v art (5/9/2011 5:26:43 AM)
May i respectfully ask the Mistresses if they can give me some advice and or clarification on something that bothers me to the point of preventing me from acting? i am a life long submissive and over the last several years i have increasingly thought that what i need and want is to become the owned slave to a to a Woman who is into total power exchange and control and would take me as Her property. i believe i understand sufficiently the absoluteness of surrender and total subjugation to anothers will in relation to as much of my if as She may wish to take control of that this implies and it remains what i want and i believe what i need, but as yet i havent followed through despite having found an admittedly small number of Mistresses who might have been interested because it induces a fear that arises from a feeling of conflict. i am an artist, a painter, and the pursuit of that doesnt need just the time involved in directly painting but it also needs being very involved in a full way with life and the world as that is the fuel to my work, work that demands a huge commitment of time, concentration and single minded application. In a word it demands and requires 'freedom' and i think my fear of the loss of this, of this side of myself that is as quintessentially me being buried and smothered by a D/s dynamic, operates subconsciously to have me run away. Is it therefore possible for a person to be so into 'themselves' as that implies and yet be effectively under the 'absolute' control and authority of another and supposedly fully committed to their needs, desires, pleasures, whims quirks and whatever they may decide they want of that person as their property to use and abuse as they wish, so much so that their life and priorities can be at the centre of the relationship? To me this expresses itself as a dilemma i cant find a way around or resolve. This is long and so for those who have, thanks for reading it and any useful advice would be very much appreciated because my submissive life is and has for years remained on hold largely because of this sense of fear and conflict. Yours, confused.

Madame4a -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 7:32:21 AM)
Many people have busy lives... artist or not, even consuming personal lives.. and some of those people are slaves, or submissives, or boys.. or what have you. Everything takes balance... I was on a panel discussion yesterday afternoon and while it was meant to be about some diversity, the bulk of the discussion was how to make a balance in life and relationships.. making it all work.. anything can work with the right people and right commitment... it takes work, no matter who you are I'd suggest two things, start slowly... maybe you don't need to be a slave immediately.. and find the right person.. be patient ETA - I consider everything my boy does in her daily life part of her service to me and to us... I would suggest that art can be a beautiful service to the right person

Lockit -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 7:57:43 AM)
I think that when we project it can be a good thing, but sometimes projection isn't a good thing because we exclude other people's real reactions and limit their input into our lives by determining by our projection how things will be. I find this happens a lot when people are unrealistic about something or simply don't know. One of the challenges I've found are with men who assume or project how I will be or what will happen simply because I present as a dominant woman. They have a picture in their mind, of how I will act, how things will go and what role I am to take in their big picture of it all. I often ask a man what he thinks a day in a life with me would be like. They can give a very detailed day of just how it will go and that tells me a great deal about where they are coming from. It isn't my dominance they seek or being owned by me... Lockit... it is a dream of the life they wish to lead. It really has nothing to do with me and has all to do with them. At the same time, I often see a conflict in them or their desires in the life they wish to lead because it really doesn't make sense. How could it make sense when one person isn't considered in the projections of what they think it will be like? Then because of all these things all packaged up tightly... they can't get anywhere. They have projected themselves into a little box. Is it about slavery and all that fun stuff... about your desires to be a slave as you picture it or is it about a person that makes you wish to be a slave to them? That is the question you need to ask yourself in my opinion. When it becomes about people and not a lifestyle... the lifestyle between the people can evolve because it's foundation is the people involved in a relationship... whatever the dynamics.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 8:15:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subject2Female i am a life long submissive I know that you asked for the input of "Mistresses", but I had to add a thought to the discussion. Firstly, you are not a life-long submissive. You have had a lifetime of fantasies about submission. That's very different from actually being a submissive. If you break free from the fantasy of submission, and actually engage in a dialogue with a "Mistress", you will find that your needs and theirs are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Most Dommes work jobs and have personal and family responsibilities outside of work. So they are not going to be available 24 hours a day, nor are they going to demand that you remain locked up in a cage 24/7. That's a fantasy. Very few live that life in reality. Rather, you will probably find that a potential Domme will respect you more because you have a life of your own. You've mastered a craft, and dedicate yourself to pursuing that craft. Those are commendable traits. However, if your time commitments are such that you really would have almost no availability, then you might consider being a sub rather than a slave. If you commit to being a slave, it does entail a greater commitment than being a sub. Perhaps you are not quite ready (or able) to make that commitment. So being a sub might be a better initial step for you.

JohnWarren -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 8:23:23 AM)
I don't really see a problem. Many artists have been slaves. Do you really think that all the art of Greece and Rome was done by freemen? It was not at all uncommon for wealthy people to have studios of slave artists to provide art for their estate and for sale.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 8:45:22 AM)
~FR~ I can only speak for myself, of course, but when I was setting up the rules of my household, one of the things I factored in was time to devote to personal projects such as art. A typical day in my household looks pretty vanilla from the outside; it's the internal dynamic that's important. It's possible to devote yourself to life as a sub or slave and still have time for your artwork. You just have to find someone who has similar values and life goals. Establishing a D/s or M/s relationship isn't all that different than establishing a vanilla relationship. The key is remembering that it's a relationship. Too many people seem to forget that critical point in their single-minded pursuit of fantasy fulfillment. Don't make the same mistake.

FelineFae -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 8:51:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan ~FR~ Establishing a D/s or M/s relationship isn't all that different than establishing a vanilla relationship. The key is remembering that it's a relationship. Too many people seem to forget that critical point in their single-minded pursuit of fantasy fulfillment. Don't make the same mistake. this

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 9:11:28 AM)
I own a fairly successful creative author. He is currently working on another book project. In addition to his job, which sometimes keeps him long hours, he spends quite a bit of evening and weekend time writing when he is on a deadline. So there are months at a time that he and I are likely to have only one evening a week to spend together, and I end up doing a lot more of the house work. He is utterly exhausted and worked to the bone when he gets home, and he still needs to find energy from somewhere for his writing. It's not always like this; once his book is finished, he will have more time available to devote to the relationship and to service. The issue isn't his willingness, it's the fact that he has an awesome opportunity to write a book he's been wanting to write for years. I'm good with this. Human beings only have so much time and energy, and I recognize that his job takes up a huge chunk of that. I also recognize that this is a fabulous opportunity for him to express himself creatively and get paid for it, and to further a successful career in his writing field. So I am fully supportive of his need for time to work, as I think it is a good thing in the bigger picture of our long term health and happiness as a family. This would probably work less well if I didn't have another partner who is there more often to serve me and who can pick up a lot of the slack. Just one of the many reasons that I think poly rocks. Three adults, three willing pairs of hands, three incomes, one house; we can do a lot to be supportive of one another when life circumstances takes up most of one person's time and energy. Does it suck sometimes? Surely. I barely get to play with him, let alone train him to service, when there are that many real world demands on his time and energy. A book project is a pretty heavy demand. But we're a family, not a fantasy porn ideal, and families support one another through tough times and great opportunities when it means future long term success and happiness for all of us. I'm proud of what he's accomplishing and I want us both to be able to look back on it ten years later and say, "it was worth it."

lizi -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 9:41:55 AM)
I think the solution to your dilemma may lie in finding the right person who will work with you. Many s types have children, jobs, etc which need attention. I've been in a situation much like LadyNTrainer described where I am a student and my studies have had to eclipse my availability to my Dom at times. I wasn't able to do things the way we've been accustomed to during the school term, but he accepts that as he wants me to obtain this goal of a new career for our long term future. During school breaks we fall into a more labor intensive routine on my part because I have the time to devote to it then. He has chosen to back off during the semester and let me give him a heads up when the workload is less and we can have my time for us. It's a strain and neither of us really likes it, but we accept it and it's been paying off. I have done an excellent job in school by being rather selfish and putting him off to the side a bit, which therefore is taking us closer to a secure future. It's a win in the end even though it sucks at times when I don't get to see him for a while. Perhaps it would help youself and any prospective partner to sit yourself down and really detail what your devotion to your art would mean in real time. Sit down and figure out what you need each day or each week for a rough schedule. Include whatever thinking time is involved. You mentioned needing a full life of being involved with your world as being necessary...how could you explain that to someone in terms they would understand such as an idea of the time that is involved with that? I think part of making this a success is if you get down to nuts and bolts of what exactly you can offer someone in service and be able to tell them "I am an artist, I'd have x amount of time and energy to devote to you outside of my creative pursuits." If you went for a job interview and they wanted to know if you could work part time or full time you'd have to have an answer. I realize art is sometimes a nebulous field where creativity doesn't really have a logical grasp of time but narrowing it down as much as you can in order to be able to explain what you're doing would help immensely in having any other person see if they could share your vision and make it work.

diablarosa -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 12:25:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subject2Female May i respectfully ask the Mistresses if they can give me some advice and or clarification on something that bothers me to the point of preventing me from acting? i am a life long submissive and over the last several years i have increasingly thought that what i need and want is to become the owned slave to a to a Woman who is into total power exchange and control and would take me as Her property. i believe i understand sufficiently the absoluteness of surrender and total subjugation to anothers will in relation to as much of my if as She may wish to take control of that this implies and it remains what i want and i believe what i need, but as yet i havent followed through despite having found an admittedly small number of Mistresses who might have been interested because it induces a fear that arises from a feeling of conflict. i am an artist, a painter, and the pursuit of that doesnt need just the time involved in directly painting but it also needs being very involved in a full way with life and the world as that is the fuel to my work, work that demands a huge commitment of time, concentration and single minded application. In a word it demands and requires 'freedom' and i think my fear of the loss of this, of this side of myself that is as quintessentially me being buried and smothered by a D/s dynamic, operates subconsciously to have me run away. Is it therefore possible for a person to be so into 'themselves' as that implies and yet be effectively under the 'absolute' control and authority of another and supposedly fully committed to their needs, desires, pleasures, whims quirks and whatever they may decide they want of that person as their property to use and abuse as they wish, so much so that their life and priorities can be at the centre of the relationship? To me this expresses itself as a dilemma i cant find a way around or resolve. This is long and so for those who have, thanks for reading it and any useful advice would be very much appreciated because my submissive life is and has for years remained on hold largely because of this sense of fear and conflict. Yours, confused. So it looks like you understand what is means to serve as a slave but you are also on the fence about it because of the freedom youll loose as an artist. I don't see any conflict here at all unless you're not really ready for slavery. What if she makes herself your top priority, and expects your art to come second? i see THERE'LL BE CONFLICT there eventually, IF ART IS YOUR FIRST MISTRESS. If its your second mistress... I don't see a problem. I think you already know the answer to this question. in the end, what's going to be more important? Her happiness or yours as an artist? If its the former, you won't have any problems with slavery but otherwise tread carefully. On the flipside many dominant women have a touch of narcisism and would LOVE becoming your muse, so maybe there is hope in that respect. You have 2 challenges it would seem to me: find a lady that not only gets it (slavery)--and that's hard enough on its own--but also find a woman who will be compatible with you in your art. I think it can happen, but it will take some searching

crazyml -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 2:49:57 PM)
What greater gift could you give to a mistress than to give up your art for her... <fans face>

diablarosa -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 4:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml What greater gift could you give to a mistress than to give up your art for her... <fans face> Damn straight!

sunshinemiss -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 4:08:17 PM)
You can choose to be with someone who respects and enjoys the person you are, or you can be with someone who wants to change you. It's your choice. best, sunshine

sunshinemiss -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 4:11:08 PM)
Sunny Quote of the Day goes to LadyNTrainer [sm=dancing.gif] for we're a family, not a fantasy porn ideal, and families support one another through tough times and great opportunities http://www.collarchat.com/m_3665613/tm.htm

diablarosa -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 4:22:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss Sunny Quote of the Day goes to LadyNTrainer [sm=dancing.gif] for we're a family, not a fantasy porn ideal, and families support one another through tough times and great opportunities http://www.collarchat.com/m_3665613/tm.htm Well, yeah, but... This thread mentions SLAVERY, not being a big happy family OR a fantasy porn ideal.

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 4:40:06 PM)
If I might from an artistic point of view make a suggestion. I don't think what you are really looking for, or really in need of for that matter is a mistress, domme, owner, etc. I think perhaps what you are looking for is drum roll a muse. A muse can very well own your soul, drive you to create art, be the very reason you breath. You are worried about time you would lack to create art but have you considered the reason you create to begin with. Do you really think that if you were lucky enough to find a woman that made you want to create works of beauty that it would then upset you that you had to give her a few hours of your day. As a fellow artist I really do suggest that you put aside the D/s M/s stuff and seek out your muse. Good luck.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 8:29:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diablarosa This thread mentions SLAVERY, not being a big happy family OR a fantasy porn ideal. If your idea of slavery requires being chained and flogged 24/7, then perhaps you would not choose to define what we are doing as slavery. We don't usually use that term ourselves, mostly because there is a lot of fantasy and drama baggage attached to it. We generally refer to wiitwd as an Owner/property dynamic. I own them. They are collared and branded. I am head of household. And yes, we are a family. Can't say as I care much if other people want to point fingers and complain that this makes us not Real or Twue or whatever.

diablarosa -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 9:30:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer If your idea of slavery requires being chained and flogged 24/7, then perhaps... I'm not saying any of that, but nice red herring. Point is: being a big happy family sharing in the joys and opportunities life brings has zilch to do with the core of slavery. its about full control, not collars and brands and leather titles. the OP seems to know this because he's taking the committment very seriously, knowing if he gives that power over, his mistress can shape his life the way she wants… he will have to consume all his time attention and energy on her if she wants it to be that way. he'll be a kept man. THAT is what slavery is really about, and to suggest to the OP, "oh, now honey, don't you worry now, slaves should be able to share in the joys and opportunities of leather folk families if your OWNER really cares about you!", is, frankly, misleading and irresponsible to say. As a slave, you might not get that happy, warm, supportive treatment. It's nice, and I'm glad you have such a nice arrangement. it says a lot about how well you have set up things, but what your doing is not guarenteed, nor the point of slavery. CONTROL is the point of slavery. that's the only thing I see promised in the unwritten contract. ymmv on all the rest of that! the OP is VERY SMART to pause at this moment and note how literally his mileage MAY in fact vary.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 10:22:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: diablarosa Point is: being a big happy family sharing in the joys and opportunities life brings has zilch to do with the core of slavery. its about full control, not collars and brands and leather titles. the OP seems to know this because he's taking the committment very seriously, knowing if he gives that power over, his mistress can shape his life the way she wants… he will have to consume all his time attention and energy on her if she wants it to be that way. he'll be a kept man. THAT is what slavery is really about, and to suggest to the OP, "oh, now honey, don't you worry now, slaves should be able to share in the joys and opportunities of leather folk families if your OWNER really cares about you!", is, frankly, misleading and irresponsible to say. Diablarosa, I don't understand your point. You seem to be arguing simply for the sake of arguing. The points that you and LadyNTrainer are making are not mutually exclusive. They're actually complementary. You've both presented valid perspectives on the argument. So why are you acting as though it's one OR the other? LadyNTrainer has shared how slavery works in her poly household. It's not representative of all slave dynamics, but it's how hers works. How can you call it irresponsible for her to share her reality? I've seen lots of M/s dynamics that were very much like what LadyNTrainer described (though most weren't poly). I've been active in BDSM for 20 years, and most (all?) of my D/s dynamics have been much more like what LadyNTrainer described than what you described. I've never been with someone who completely disregarded my goals/aspirations/career. Frankly, I would never choose to be with such a person. Bottom line: Both perspectives are valid. There is not one twue way. [;)]

diablarosa -> RE: Slavery v art (5/9/2011 10:43:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: diablarosa Point is: being a big happy family sharing in the joys and opportunities life brings has zilch to do with the core of slavery. its about full control, not collars and brands and leather titles. the OP seems to know this because he's taking the committment very seriously, knowing if he gives that power over, his mistress can shape his life the way she wants… he will have to consume all his time attention and energy on her if she wants it to be that way. he'll be a kept man. THAT is what slavery is really about, and to suggest to the OP, "oh, now honey, don't you worry now, slaves should be able to share in the joys and opportunities of leather folk families if your OWNER really cares about you!", is, frankly, misleading and irresponsible to say. Diablarosa, The points that you and LadyNTrainer are making are not mutually exclusive. They're actually complementary. You've both presented valid perspectives on the argument. So why are you acting as though it's one OR the other? Oh that's true, Roch, and I'm not acting as if its one or the other. the thing is, you can't assume those luxuries of group support to be default in slavery. it's wonderful to have the situation LNT describes, but it doesn't mean much beyond offering just a little glimpse of what could be out of many mistresses and mastresses and masters. thing is, that "could be" can't be banked upon. His mistress may want him to abandon his art or paint only her or change his lifestyle altogether into something totally different and terrifying and it will be within her right to do so. I have no doubt that if said painter were to become LNT's slave, he/she would give him room to work and be himself, like her author guy. But that's her, and her methods and styles are not a given in slavery.

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