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[Poll]

Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It!


Let Everyone stay, enforce immigration laws going forward.
  4% (3)
Pass The Dream Act, they can petition for siblings like everyone else
  6% (4)
Pay for any services used, no crime hx, stay.
  6% (4)
Let anyone here for 5+ years, who passes basic English test stay.
  8% (5)
For a fee, everyone >2 yrs in the US, W/out, Crime record, stays.
  9% (6)
Send anyone here illegally back, to wherever they came from.
  39% (24)
Send anyone without basic English skills, <70yo back.
  6% (4)
If they can speak basic English, pay a modest fee, stay.
  3% (2)
Pay what they've collected from welfare, while illegal, stay.
  3% (2)
Fine employers of Illegals, Use money to deport illegals
  11% (7)


Total Votes : 61
(last vote on : 6/7/2011 3:29:35 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 2:12:44 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

But that is just one tax that illegals pay, they pay other taxes as well, sales tax, gas tax, property tax (or indirectly thru paying rent), etc, etc. To get a true picture you would have to add up all the taxes and add up all the actual benefits and see what the numbers actually are.

True, but that is offset by things like sending half of the money they make out of the country via WU, serious carpooling, living 10 to a 1 bedrm apt (don't ask about many of my former neighbors), etc etc. If you are going to go there, you also have to add in the cost of things like auto accidents caused by illegals who have no license and no insurance. It happens every day and in every case I know of, the citizen winds up paying.

quote:

I wonder what things would cost if there were no illegals to pick the fruit, cook, clean, garden, build houses, etc. I would say that people would soon find their cost of living skyrocket and they would no longer be able to afford their gardener, nanny, etc. Then hear people bitch! lol
Having no gardener, nanny, domestic, etc; it would not bother me. Tazzy has already addressed the lettuce issue.



Look, the amount of insurance required in CA and probably in most other states is a joke. In CA for bodily injury its $15,000 per person, $30,000 per accident. Where I originally come from you are required to have a minimum of $1,000,000 coverage and they recommend 2 mil. So to me, $15,000 per person is, imo, as good as no insurance because its not going to cover much if you are seriously injured, especially how overpriced medical is here.

Lots of corporations send their money out of the country too, to subsidiaries and such. No one says much about that. But what difference does it make where they send their money? They worked for it, its theirs to do with as they wish, just as your money is to do with as you wish. You wouldnt want anyone telling you what you could do with yours, would you? And what is wrong with car pooling? I thought the govt encouraged that. And 10 people to an apartment, well, there are usually city by-laws that cover that, usually there is a limit on how many people can be living in a dwelling. Its up to the neigbors if they want to make a complaint about that.

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 6:39:25 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You do realize that there is no such thing as an "anchor baby", they will deport you and your US born children right back to Mexico, where once your kids are 18 they can come back and claim their citizenship. To claim that somehow the immigration laws change because you spawn here is fallacious. I do not know if the welfare system gives people assistance that are here without documents, but the INS grants them no special favors.



What I do know that is, unless you get into trouble, no one is being deported. Cities right and left are now refusing to hold illegals for minor crimes.

San Francisco, one of the first sanctuary cities in the nation, plans to end its cooperation with federal immigration officials and start releasing illegal immigrants arrested for minor offenses before they can be picked up for deportation.
The city's decision is the latest development in a tug of war between several communities and the federal government over its controversial national program that automatically checks the immigration status of arrestees.
Officials in jurisdictions including Providence, R.I., and Chicago have also challenged the program, which they say undermines trust that it has taken local law enforcement years to build in immigrant communities.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/07/san-francisco-stop-detaining-arrested-immigrants-deportation/#ixzz1MOt1GuCC

quote:



So under this delusional view, the parents have their kids here, go back to Mexico, and then in just two years shy of 20 they get to come back with the kid who "sponsors" them as a citizen.. edited to add, if you enter illegally to have the kid, you cannot get sponsorship when they come back to the USA, because they will not allow people who were here illegally to be sponsored in such ways... this further tramples the assertion that people spawn here for legal status


Spawn... nice way to put giving birth. And if you believe its just Mexico that these people are coming from,

The Marmara Manhattan offers “an exclusive package for new mothers that wish to give birth in the USA”, with the additional bonus of the newborn child gaining US citizenship.

The Marmara Manhattan, which is located in New York’s Upper East Side, told The Times: “What we offer is simply a one-bedroom suite accommodation for $5,100, plus taxes, for a month, with airport transfer, baby cradle and a gift set for the mother.” There are also medical fees of about £20,500.


No, what your claim is about "anchor babies" is that people have them as an avenue to citizenship.... which is completely false, why else would you use the term?

Edited to add, why should local law enforcement allow themselves to be used as INS agents by holding minor traffic offenders?


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/15/2011 6:40:39 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 6:42:43 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I think it sucks to insinuate that Mexicans are all looking to take our tax dollars and welfare money when they come here and work their asses off for a pittance, and have very little legal protection from employer abuse.


Insinuate much? I have said the illegals I know are hard working, dedicated and loyal. But you cannot escape the fact that SOME are here doing just what I said.



You make it sounds as though social services to immigrants is breaking us economically by posting much about it, which it isn't....

It would be more fruitful to attack the war on drugs, which causes so much harm on both sides of the border

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 6:46:55 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Whoa. Not "every inch of land is stolen". The native tribes thought it was funny to sell some of the land for beads or gold... they didnt believe man could own land... and they were proven wrong


In the end when we all take the Great Dirt Nap, the land owns us,... so I think they were right

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 10:43:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

No, what your claim is about "anchor babies" is that people have them as an avenue to citizenship.... which is completely false, why else would you use the term?


Where did I ever say its a pathway to citizenship?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:00:20 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

It doesnt matter where they work, where ever it is, the costs would skyrocket if they werent there to do that work for very low wages.


You did miss my post about the guy from the Federal Labor Board coming into the place I work and stating that he didnt care who was legal or who wasnt, if you worked, you got paid the proper amount.

Do you also know that many states allow illegals to sue for back wages? There are many advocate agencies willing to fight for them? Not that I begrudge them a single penny, I dont. If someone works, they should get paid every cent. You keep insisting they are paid poorly, and some are, but the majority are not because employers are flying under the radar when it comes to hiring them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:01:29 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No, what your claim is about "anchor babies" is that people have them as an avenue to citizenship.... which is completely false, why else would you use the term?


Where did I ever say its a pathway to citizenship?


What does the term "anchor baby" mean?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:03:56 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No, what your claim is about "anchor babies" is that people have them as an avenue to citizenship.... which is completely false, why else would you use the term?


Where did I ever say its a pathway to citizenship?


What does the term "anchor baby" mean?

A couple moves to the US (usually illegally for the purpose of most of the "anchor baby" discussion.
They have a child on US soil. That baby is a citizen of this country by birth and the law. He or she can then, in the future, be used to try to "anchor" the parents in this country.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:05:23 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

You make it sounds as though social services to immigrants is breaking us economically by posting much about it, which it isn't....


I post about the problem as I see it. My vision isn't clouded by personal experiences such as yours. You are eager to see anything I say as an attack against the baby your family adopted and the mom who gave her up.

No where have I said social services is being broken through illegal immigrants. What I have said is that they are eligible for many benefits. Now, if you care to dispute that, then please do so. Stop putting words into my textual mouth.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:11:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No, what your claim is about "anchor babies" is that people have them as an avenue to citizenship.... which is completely false, why else would you use the term?


Where did I ever say its a pathway to citizenship?


What does the term "anchor baby" mean?


"Anchor baby" is a term for a child born in the United States to immigrant parents, who, as an American citizen, can later facilitate immigration for relatives.[1] The term is generally used as a pejorative reference to the supposed role of the child who automatically qualifies as an American citizen and can later act as a sponsor for other family members[2][3] The term is often used in the context of the debate over illegal immigration to the United States, but is used for the child of any immigrant.[1] The practical immigration benefit of having a child born in the US is disputed; although family reunification (family-based immigration) in the United States is a lengthy process and limited by law to categories prescribed by provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965,[4] the courts in practice have not always been willing to deport immigrant parents when this would also result in an American-born child being required to leave the country.[5]

I dont use it as a pejorative. I do use it in the way that a baby, born a US citizen, keeps his parents in the US if they are illegal.

All told, federal law (not the Constitution) gives citizenship to an estimated minimum 400,000 babies each year who don’t have even one parent who is a U.S. citizen or permanent legal immigrant. This is a huge impediment to efforts to stabilize U.S. population to allow for environmental sustainability. And it is a great incentive for more illegal immigration.

Each of these babies becomes an anchor who retards deportation of unlawfully present parents—and who eventually will be an anchor for entire families and villages as chain migration leads to the immigration of grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins.

http://www.businessweek.com/debateroom/archives/2009/07/anchor_babies_no_more_us_citizenship.html

The chain migration Im not so sure about. However, if law enforcement and ICE aren't willing to deport, and cities and states are no longer holding, then what I said is true and these legally born babies are keeping their illegally migrated parents in the US.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:14:38 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

That baby is a citizen of this country by birth and the law. He or she can then, in the future, be used to try to "anchor" the parents in this country.


If they get deported with that child, the child can come back at the age of 18, but they are NEVER going to. It will ruin their chances of ever coming back

I was at a professional conference recently, and one of the sessions was about Mexican immigration. I made a point of going to the session because one of my friends presented there. She is doing her doctoral work on this topic. Really interesting stuff. We tend to think of life as a static thing, not evolving and dynamic. In recent years there has been much fear about having kids here and getting deported. It seems there are actually some kids that have become trapped in the social welfare system after their parents are deported. They have no way to retrieve them. This has caused a great deal of fear amongst immigrants.


Now, anchor babies are the silliest sort of way to try to gain access to the United States. It rarely happens that an adult American citizen sponsors their family to come to the US. Often this process takes years in and of itself (you do not get instant access to this country because you have a family member here). Extended family do not gain entrance. Many children born here are taken back and never return, causing them issues because they do not have papers to access social services in Mexico. In other words, you have to be a Mexican citizen to get transcripts from a school, even if you went to class.


I think there are all sorts of fear mongering that takes place on this issue. It reminds me of the black welfare mother driving a Cadillac , popping out 10 kids to get more cash aid. This was never truly a huge problem, but the media reported on it like it was. The story gained teeth because it played upon racial stereotypes and fears, just like this one does.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:20:20 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

No, what your claim is about "anchor babies" is that people have them as an avenue to citizenship.... which is completely false, why else would you use the term?


Where did I ever say its a pathway to citizenship?


What does the term "anchor baby" mean?


Anchor babies are children that are born in the United States to an illegal alien mother.  The children are automatically citizens which is a perversion of the 14th Amendment (correct me if I'm wrong) which gave citizenship to slaves.  So the children can't be thrown out and neither can the mother because of the hardship it would cause on the child.  So while having an "anchor baby" will not lead to citizenship, it will prevent an illegal alien from being deported.

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 5/15/2011 11:24:16 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:27:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I dont use it as a pejorative. I do use it in the way that a baby, born a US citizen, keeps his parents in the US if they are illegal.


I have shown you repeatedly that there is no special law that keeps illegal immigrants here because they had a baby on American soil.... it just isn't true


quote:

Each of these babies becomes an anchor who retards deportation of unlawfully present parents—and who eventually will be an anchor for entire families and villages as chain migration leads to the immigration of grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins.


This is not true, they are not a chain for legal immigration. You can have your siblings here, your parents here, your children, and your spouse.... you cannot sponsor your grandparents, your aunts and uncles and cousins. The people you sponsor are not a chain for anyone else because they are not citizens with the ability to sponsor under the law. These are just BLANTANT falsehoods. if you are posting an article with one falsehood, what does that tell you about the reliability of the rest of it? Like I said, it is like the Welfare Queen reporting, an exaggeration and conflagration of issues to make a point based upon racial fears and stereotypes.


Why should cities and states enforce immigration law? This is not their jurisdiction!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:30:53 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

The children are automatically citizens which is a perversion of the 14th Amendment (correct me if I'm wrong) which gave citizenship to slaves.  So the children can't be thrown out and neither can the mother because of the hardship it would cause on the child. 



Wrong, these parents are deported all of the time....More and more, in fact. Therefore the entire premise of "anchor baby" is flawed.


There are people who are here legally, with work visas, and they have children here. These kids have citizenship. Wanna stop that too?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:32:48 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I dont use it as a pejorative. I do use it in the way that a baby, born a US citizen, keeps his parents in the US if they are illegal.


I have shown you repeatedly that there is no special law that keeps illegal immigrants here because they had a baby on American soil.... it just isn't true


quote:

Each of these babies becomes an anchor who retards deportation of unlawfully present parents—and who eventually will be an anchor for entire families and villages as chain migration leads to the immigration of grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins.


This is not true, they are not a chain for legal immigration. You can have your siblings here, your parents here, your children, and your spouse.... you cannot sponsor your grandparents, your aunts and uncles and cousins. The people you sponsor are not a chain for anyone else because they are not citizens with the ability to sponsor under the law. These are just BLANTANT falsehoods. if you are posting an article with one falsehood, what does that tell you about the reliability of the rest of it? Like I said, it is like the Welfare Queen reporting, an exaggeration and conflagration of issues to make a point based upon racial fears and stereotypes.


Why should cities and states enforce immigration law? This is not their jurisdiction!


Why should cities and states enforce immigration law?  Are you joking????  I guess they should enforce immigration law because the Federal government has abdicated its responsibility to enforce.  How is that for an answer?  I guess because it is the citizens of the states trying to enforce the law that are the victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens.  How is that for an answer?

What is your problem with having your country's borders respected?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:34:41 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		"There are people who are here legally, with work visas, and they have children here. These kids have citizenship. Wanna stop that too? "

Is this the issue?  Are we discussing problems with LEGAL IMMIGRATION?   I think we are discussing the problems that arise from illegal immigration, isn't that true?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:40:50 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Why should cities and states enforce immigration law?  Are you joking????  I guess they should enforce immigration law because the Federal government has abdicated its responsibility to enforce.  How is that for an answer?  I guess because it is the citizens of the states trying to enforce the law that are the victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens.  How is that for an answer?

What is your problem with having your country's borders respected?


I have no problem with having immigration law. I do have a problem with spending local/state resources to police it.


Like I said, if the drug laws changed it would be less of an issue, especially legalizing maryjane, and decriminalizing harder drugs

Make i unprofitable to hire undocumented workers, while you are at it...

In other words, decentivize those who want to cross the border without permission.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:42:47 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

"There are people who are here legally, with work visas, and they have children here. These kids have citizenship. Wanna stop that too? "

Is this the issue?  Are we discussing problems with LEGAL IMMIGRATION?   I think we are discussing the problems that arise from illegal immigration, isn't that true?



The 14th Amendment came up. The problem as articulated by both you and tazzy, is that there are people that become citizens without having a parent who is one


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:48:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

f they get deported with that child, the child can come back at the age of 18, but they are NEVER going to. It will ruin their chances of ever coming back

I was at a professional conference recently, and one of the sessions was about Mexican immigration. I made a point of going to the session because one of my friends presented there. She is doing her doctoral work on this topic. Really interesting stuff. We tend to think of life as a static thing, not evolving and dynamic. In recent years there has been much fear about having kids here and getting deported. It seems there are actually some kids that have become trapped in the social welfare system after their parents are deported. They have no way to retrieve them. This has caused a great deal of fear amongst immigrants.


This isn't just a Mexico issue. Other countries are doing the same, getting dual citizenship, with the intention of sending the child here for an education... im sure you can follow the dots from there.

Now, let me ask you, was these parents who were caught up in a government sweep, caught using fake or stolen identification?

And the last I heard, parents can always take the kids back with them, or they can leave them in the care of a legal guardian here, or in the care of child services.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Immigration Reform! Let's Poll It! - 5/15/2011 11:50:26 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Wrong, these parents are deported all of the time....More and more, in fact. Therefore the entire premise of "anchor baby" is flawed.


Im going to need to see some of these incidents you speak about, julia.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 140
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