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Speech - 5/11/2006 7:36:48 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

hiya - its quite obvious that the majority here does not like 3rd person speech. They also dont like the whole W/we, T/they O/our, stuff either. Granted its the majority. Which doesnt really matter a whit, atleast to this one. Dun care if others like it or not. This thread isnt about debating the pro's and con's or to vent how crappy it is, how it annoys you, ect. Nor is to speak about your "view" on it. Or to hear about how its a hard limit and you think its terrible. That doesnt matter. Plus, there's like 3 other threads on that already. Everyone has posted their view on it already most likely.

What this one wants to know is the Rules for 3rd person speech. Just the Rules. Some of them, any of them, all of them? Master, obviously has told her, He would like her to use it. So of course when told to do something you do it the best to your ability.

she's got questions

When saying "Your slave" do you cap the Y cos its in reference to Him.. or not as its sort of in reference to you? It is "His" slave.. but it is also "you" LOL So is it "Your slave" or "your slave"??? Personally she thinks its Your slave.. but dunno..

Few other things too.. but at the moment she cant remember them. So if anyone by chance knows the general rules, rules or outlines.. that'd be fantastic. Or fabulous as Culkin said on The Party Monster! Oh.. and please no guesses.. cos that would suck to have a wrong guess, ya know?

Post #: 1

RE: Speech - 5/11/2006 7:50:41 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Not to be bitchy but if your master has told you to use the 3rd person he needs to be the one to tell you how to use it or give you the resources to find out himself. It is his rule and he should take responsiblity for setting it all down and teaching it to you.

He and you are ultimately the only ones that need to be happy with the rules afterall.

Depending on how formal your relationship is, you should ask him to teach you the grammar rules he wishes for you to use. Beg, petition, simply ask, fill out a request form, whatever is appropriate for your relationship.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 2

RE: Speech - 5/11/2006 7:57:16 PM

onesweetsub4u

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/25/2004
Status: offline

i have to agree here, no one can dictate the rules that Y/you live by. . or even give humble opinion. . . W/we are not there, or living your life with your Sir/Master. . it is important only that He be the one to explain how He wishes it done.... something tells me that He would love for you to ask for the proper form. . .. begging always helps lol
blessed be
pedigreed pet

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 3

RE: Speech - 5/11/2006 7:58:36 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

Yes you are right it is Your slave.

Third person speech and speech training in general is just another tool or toy in the lifestyle, if some one else is bothered by it, it is because it is hard to follow when the slave is telling/typing a story with multiple people in it...

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 4

RE: Speech - 5/11/2006 8:44:18 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

What this one wants to know is the Rules for 3rd person speech. Just the Rules. Some of them, any of them, all of them? Master, obviously has told her, He would like her to use it. So of course when told to do something you do it the best to your ability.

Like so much else in the scene, they are whatever you and your master want them to be. If he doesn't like something, don't do it; doesn't matter a bit if other people say it's a hard rule.

Would be nice although if you two just used it between yourselves. You know like a secret code for personal messages... unless of course, your postings here are meant for his eyes, then certainly do them in a way that pleases him.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 5

RE: Speech - 5/11/2006 9:03:02 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Not to be bitchy but if your master has told you to use the 3rd person he needs to be the one to tell you how to use it or give you the resources to find out himself. It is his rule and he should take responsiblity for setting it all down and teaching it to you.

Tammy nails it right there. If he expects something, its his job to define exactly what that is as clearly as is necessary. Which means he needs to sit down with you and teach you exactly what he wants.

I'd don't generally require third person (sometimes in specific play situations), though I do use speech restrictions and protocols. I also have that stuff written down and when I train a girl I teach her precisely what I expect. This is what your owner needs to do, he needs to sit down and decide exactly what protocols he wants to you to use. They can be whatever he wants to make up, it doesn't have to be the way anyone else does it. Then he needs to write it down (I find that really helps me fix it in my mind and makes it easier for me to teach, plus the notes are good for both to refer too later when there are questions) and then teach you.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 6

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 1:58:27 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

What this one wants to know is the Rules for 3rd person speech. Just the Rules. Some of them, any of them, all of them? Master, obviously has told her, He would like her to use it. So of course when told to do something you do it the best to your ability.

The rules that are most important, especially in a public venue, are the rules relating to proper grammatical use of the third person. The way many use this tool, it is nearly unreadable, which is one reason that it gets such a hostile reaction.

If you want to understand 3rd person communication, one of the best tools you can use is reading non-fiction. Authorship in non-fiction works, in particular in editorials and position pieces, is typically kept to 3rd person as a requirement of the writing style. This will give you a good background in how to use the form without being annoying.

A few things that I can recommend right of the top of my head...

Instead of using indirect objects (a, the) to refer to yourself, use direct objects (this, your), and use names to refer to others. This avoids one of the most tangled sentance issues -- the need to discuss others while remaining in 3rd person. I'm providing examples below, so you can see what I mean:

In this sentence, using only indirect objects, the servant is trying to tell her master that 2 of the other servants in the house went to the store:

Ex1: A girl wants Master to know that a girl and her sister went to the store.

See how it cleans up using direct objects:

Ex2: This girl wants Master to know that nina and casey went to the store.

Be as clear as possible. Referring to oneself by name, if it is allowed, is even -more- clear:

Ex3: Riot wants Master to know that nina and casey went to the store.

Check the rules of grammar for 3rd person, using Strunk and White. It will keep you out of trouble with your Master, and keep you low on the annoyance factor with others who read your works.

Hope this helps,
Lady Zephyr

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 7

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 6:32:37 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

Not to be bitchy but if your master has told you to use the 3rd person he needs to be the one to tell you how to use it or give you the resources to find out himself. It is his rule and he should take responsiblity for setting it all down and teaching it to you.

He and you are ultimately the only ones that need to be happy with the rules afterall.

Depending on how formal your relationship is, you should ask him to teach you the grammar rules he wishes for you to use. Beg, petition, simply ask, fill out a request form, whatever is appropriate for your relationship.

okay, well you are being bitchy = ) Infact you are actually telling this slave how to have her relationship. As is onesweetaub4u.

Master did tell give His slave rules to go by, but unfortunetly she like to take the inititiave and go beyond what Master asked. Which is why this thread was posted. Suppose you dont have any other suggestions of other rules?

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 8

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 6:34:15 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Thank you Ms Bladewing and Tigress!!

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 5/12/2006 7:10:12 AM >

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 9

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 6:41:08 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Some how Padriag and Johns, post magically appeared! Sorry, but Master told her to use it period. Even in writing. Padriag, He did tell her excatly what he wanted His slave to do. He gave her 4 guidlines to go by - written down even, so she can go back and double check. But - As was already said, this one likes to do her best. Sometimes that means going beyond what was told. Investigating a matter completely. Of course, all she needs to do is follow those 4 rules. Yet some how one doesnt think that Master would be upset if she did more. He might even be proud.

this one doesnt remember asking others what she she should do or what Master should do. she doesnt remember asking others whats best for Our relationship either. Nor did she ask what you all thought His responsiblities are. she didnt even ask that others "dictate" what she live by. Nor did she ask what's appropriate for her relationship.

does anyone other then two people get it? This thread isnt about that and granted you all have the right to free speech, but isnt it kind of silly to go to a thread and speak off topic? Whats the point? Maybe this one was silly for asking what others here thought the rules were for 3rd person speech. Maybe its silly for her to want more information on it? Who knows.

the Question is - What are the rules for 3rd person speech?

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 5/12/2006 7:14:51 AM >

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 10

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 7:48:35 AM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

Here is an expanded version of the grammatical rules for 3rd person, with examples. I'd strongly suggest that you spend some time writing out different phrases, and then review them for proper grammer, before you speak or write them. You may have to proof-read written communications a number of times, since practice with these word-forms isn't really taught in our schools much any more, and hasn't been for a while. It isn't easy to find delineated rules for working with the 3rd person, outside of fiction-writing fields and technical writing, but I hope these help.

Verbs - Personal or impersonal - Third person

Here, you avoid using I or we, by using the '3rd person' i.e.:
one
he/she
they
type of person e.g. economists, scientists

Examples

The following is personal.
I identified a number of factors affecting the integration of disabled children into mainstream schools.

If the impersonal is needed, you would rewrite the above as if you (who carried out the research) were somebody else (a 3rd person). This version is 3rd person.
The researcher identified a number of factors affecting the integration of disabled children into mainstream schools.

The following is personal.
When carrying out interviews, I try not to 'lead' the interviewee.

This version is 3rd person.
When carrying out interviews, one tries not to 'lead' the interviewee.

Make sure that your subject and verb are in agreement. If you are using a singular pronoun, make sure that your verb is also singular:

This girl asks to attend class this evening.

Not:

This girl ask to attend class this evening.

If the 3rd person pronouns are plural, make sure that the verb is also plural:

Your girls wish to make dinner, if that pleases you.

Or:

Your girl wishes to make dinner, if that pleases you.

Not:

Your girls wishes to make dinner, if that pleases you.

Or:

Your girl wish to make dinner, if that pleases you.

In complex 3rd person forms, make sure that the verb modifying –each- subject reference is correct.

This girl wishes you to know that the servants went to sleep early, but left this one to attend to your late evening needs.

The above sentence is graceful and can be understood seamelessly… but it could be a nightmare, if the verbs didn’t agree –

This girl wish you to know that the servants gone to sleep early, but leave this one to attends to your late evening needs.

BLECH

Good luck. The easiest way to learn this is to practice a lot. Since your owner has directed you to use 3rd person in all communications, you should have plenty of practice opportunity. If something sounds horribly awkward, especially in the beginning when posting, don't stress... set the message aside and verify it grammatically. It won't hurt for it to be a little late in being posted, and it is likely that your owner will appreciate your diligence.

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 11

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 7:50:43 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

We are not... amused....

Me first,

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 12

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:01:28 AM

darq

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: under a rock
Status: offline

It doesn't matter if you're amused or not.

Riot's Master has given her an order. As an obedient and dutiful slave, she's putting forth her best efforts into pleasing him.

Newsflash

She doesn't have to please you or me or anyone else ... Just him.

With that said, if the way she types bothers you that much, there is always the block feature. Poof, no more third person Riot.

Of course that means you miss out on her perspective, which is a pretty awesome perspective sometimes from what I've seen. But I guess thats the price you pay, isn't it?

_____________________________

So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts ...
Tell me, whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

I speak my mind because it hurts to bite my tongue.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 13

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:09:11 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

You have miscieved me. We are not amused does not mean that I agree with or disagree with anything. In fact, RiotGirl and I have visited back and forth a few times and are on the order of on friendly terms. I would never consider blocking her or telling her that her Master is wrong in any circumstance I can think of.

I am not sure what you inferred from my post, but it was not what was intended.

Smiles (it is friday),
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to darq)

Post #: 14

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:18:55 AM

Delightb32

Posts: 18
Status: offline

quote:

Some how Padriag and Johns, post magically appeared! Sorry, but Master told her to use it period. Even in writing. Padriag, He did tell her excatly what he wanted His slave to do. He gave her 4 guidlines to go by - written down even, so she can go back and double check. But - As was already said, this one likes to do her best. Sometimes that means going beyond what was told. Investigating a matter completely. Of course, all she needs to do is follow those 4 rules. Yet some how one doesnt think that Master would be upset if she did more. He might even be proud.

this one doesnt remember asking others what she she should do or what Master should do. she doesnt remember asking others whats best for Our relationship either. Nor did she ask what you all thought His responsiblities are. she didnt even ask that others "dictate" what she live by. Nor did she ask what's appropriate for her relationship.

does anyone other then two people get it? This thread isnt about that and granted you all have the right to free speech, but isnt it kind of silly to go to a thread and speak off topic? Whats the point? Maybe this one was silly for asking what others here thought the rules were for 3rd person speech. Maybe its silly for her to want more information on it? Who knows.

the Question is - What are the rules for 3rd person speech?

Ok, above I have quoted something you said, with all words corrected being in bold and all phrases corrected being italicized. I am not sure of your education level, but I will tell you that the rules for third person speech are similar to those for first person speech. Until you understand and can use the basic rules of grammar, there is no point in piling extra rules on top. For your understanding, I have corrected the grammar from the quote above and am posting it below. My suggestion is to practice writing in Microsoft Word. After you have written something, go back through and correct the grammar and spelling by yourself and then with the aid of someone else. This will hopefully allow you to learn the rules of grammar for first, second and third person speech.

Finally, I would like to say that since your Master has required you to use improper grammar, it is silly for you to expect others to know how your Master wishes you to use grammar. The rules of grammar mean proper capitalization, proper use of third person, proper use of punctuation and proper use of diction. As you do not seem to be required to follow any of those rules, why would other rules apply? I agree with the others and will iterate that since your Master has dictated how he wishes you to speak, he has become the rule maker and thus he is your source for proper use of grammar as the rules created by society and the ivory tower for the English language no longer apply to you.

Somehow Padriag's and John's posts magically appeared! Sorry, but Master told her to use it, even in writing, period. Padriag, He did tell her exactly what he wanted His slave to do. He gave her 4 guidelines to go by - written down so she can go back and double check. But, as was already said, this one likes to do her best. Sometimes that means going beyond what was told and investigating a matter completely. Of course, all she needs to do is follow those four rules. Yet somehow one does not think that Master would be upset if she did more -- He might even be proud.

This one does not remember asking others what she she should do or what Master should do. she doesnt remember asking others what is best for Our relationship either. Nor did she ask what you all thought His responsibilities should be. she did not even ask that others "dictate" how she should live. Nor did she ask what is appropriate for her relationship.

Does anyone other than two people get it? This thread is not about that and granted you all have the right to free speech, but is it not kind of silly to go to a thread and speak off topic? Whats the point? Maybe this one was silly for asking what others here thought the rules were for 3rd person speech. Maybe it is silly for her to want more information on it. Who knows?

The question is: What are the rules for 3rd person speech?

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 15

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:19:41 AM

darq

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: under a rock
Status: offline

Its Friday and I'm apparently in a snit ... lol

With that said, I'm going to go curl up with a book.

Sorry.

_____________________________

So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts ...
Tell me, whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

I speak my mind because it hurts to bite my tongue.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 16

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:20:36 AM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

I understand wanting to do your absolute best, and going 'above and beyond' - but just from what I have experienced/observed over the last few years (both online and offline), it's best for any submissive/slave to clarify with their Dominant what is wanted ... so while you might not appreciate the advice that TammyJo gave you, I feel it's entirely appropriate.

If you want to know how He feels about it, ask Him - He may not agree with the "grammar rules" of others in this instance (on the capitalization), and might be miffed that you are doing what others have suggested (I don't know Him, but just knowing human nature - it's possible).

However, the whole "be as clear as possible" thing is a very good idea and I can't imagine Him being upset about that. That's most of why I dislike 3rd person speech ... it gives me a headache trying to figure out who/what exactly the writer is talking about.

< Message edited by SweetDommes -- 5/12/2006 8:25:53 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 17

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:21:34 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Ditto... and also Royal speech.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Delightb32)

Post #: 18

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:26:04 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Mz Bladeswing you Rock!! Going to have to copy and save that like she did Master's rules on 3rd Speech. (do you mind?) Thank you very much, its much appreciated. The info and the time and effort you put in posting it!

Darq - your so sweet and this one appreciates you sticking up for her = ) Thanks for the compliment as well = ) Never knew the perspective she had was "awesome" LOL always thought it was abit kooky = ) thank you. Appeciate you sticking up for her, but its not needed = ) (course you can go yell at the those who responded first.. they made her cranky hehehehehe)

Ron - LOL so WHAT if its Friday! Today is a crappy day = ( blah and double blah. Not sure what you ment by the not amused either..... lol though it was taken in a humour manner = )

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 19

RE: Speech - 5/12/2006 8:31:10 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

Finally, I would like to say that since your Master has required you to use improper grammar, it is silly for you to expect others to know how your Master wishes you to use grammar. The rules of grammar mean proper capitalization, proper use of third person, proper use of punctuation and proper use of diction. As you do not seem to be required to follow any of those rules, why would other rules apply? I agree with the others and will iterate that since your Master has dictated how he wishes you to speak, he has become the rule maker and thus he is your source for proper use of grammar as the rules created by society and the ivory tower for the English language no longer apply to you.

Its not about grammer. Its about 3rd person speech! this one does know proper grammer, she's been writing since she was 10 and did excellent in english until she stopped paying attention and doing the work in 8th grade. Though, she did get a B in the english class in College = )

she just doesnt care about proper grammer = ) she gets her point across and thats all that matters to her. If it was totally important to her she would write with proper grammer. Heck, if it was important to Master it would be done. Plus it takes to long to edit and then re edit and then re edit... which is how when she rights she goes through.

Tho much obliged for the corrections you posted! LOL she didnt realise she butchered the american language so much! course she disagree's about the "Nor" at the start of a sentence, from what she knows its not supposed to start off.. some rule.. she cant remember which rule it is though.

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 5/12/2006 8:35:57 AM >

(in reply to Delightb32)

Post #: 20

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