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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 6:24:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Entering data for a healthy 64 year old gets a plan with a $5000 deductible, 20% copay and $328.99 monthly premium. Which works out to $8,947.88 annual out of pocket before it is roughly the same as Medicare. So without any more price inflation Ryan's plan is $947.88 more out of pocket for seniors.


I'd be interested in knowing what the Lifetime Max Benefit is on that plan... How fast does it take someone to accrue a million dollars worth of use, and what happens to them when they do?

Vermont solved all this already, by the way.


Then you might be interested to know that there are no lifetime maximum benefits permitted, and havent been for over a year. It was one of the reasons for double digit increases in premiums directly due to Obamacare.


Then that's a good thing, isn't it? I mean, no-one is in favor of just cutting off people's benefits when they reach arbitrary limits.


Is it? Do you know how much it cost to provide? Do you know what services run up bills over $1 million in one year? (Lifetime max's under most policies had a provision to reset after a year of recovery) Do you know how most employer and union plans have dealt with the elimination of lifetime max's? (Assuming you don't know think "unintended consequences")

Arbitrary? It wasnt the least bit arbitrary. You paid a premium that was lower to reflect the maximum. If Pelosi's writers actually knew anything about health insurance they would have mandated OPTIONS to increase the lifetime max, with an appropriate premium. Instead they raise costs for everybody for services that may not be wanted or needed.

Do you think the pre-existing conditions provisions after 2014 are a good thing? Do you honestly think its fair that individuals buy bare minimum coverage or even just pay the individual mandate fine and then can buy a comprehensive policy AFTER they come down with an illness? If so then you think its perfectly fine to not have collision insurance on your auto until after you have an accident.

This law is full of holes like that.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/28/2011 6:34:14 PM >

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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 6:41:33 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Willbe, im going to ask you one simple question.

Based upon what you just posted, knowing cost and demand, understanding how the medical system works... if what you say is true, why and how are Insurance companies making such incredible profits?

Im curious to see how you justify that.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 6:59:13 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Interesting that you would take a projected age 65 voucher that equals the projected Medicare subsidy for a 65 year old and then claim there is a shortfall for a 70 year old. Also interesting that the numbers reflect AVERAGE vouchers that do not take into account income subsidies.


I know a person who's elderly, worked all her life and pays $100 a month plus co-pays for medicare costs. She goes to a food bank to fill in for the $100 she has left after rent. Also we have her to the house for dinner cause she's so sweet to my kids I called her a little while ago to invite her to the parade my son is playing sax in tomorrow. And this thread was on the screen, so I asked her what she's heard. She said basically that she had been calling Scott Brown's office and that when they finally gave her an answer, they told her that her expenses could go up as little as $150 a month and as much as $300. She said she told them that it would be then that she could no longer afford to have an apartment and they said "Well that's why Senator Brown is not supporting the plan. She told them to tell the Senator that if it passes she will never vote republican again and that she was glad that she could help with his school loans and breaks he got to afford his law education and all the other nice benefits he got growing up. And she said she thanked them for taking care of her (I can't remember if he even went to law school, so I don't know how right she was about that).
   This lady has had some tough breaks, her husband is in a care facility and it cost them their house. And she apparently can't get any of his money from his ssi cause the nursing home gets it while he's living. I feel bad for them. They worked for a seafood company all their lives and the pension got raided on top of all that. And the jerk that was the architect of that corporate re-adjustment now wants to run for state auditor under guess what banner?
  I am starting to think I really want a republican sub next relationship 8-)


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:01:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Being a republican is a hard limit for me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:07:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Willbe, im going to ask you one simple question.

Based upon what you just posted, knowing cost and demand, understanding how the medical system works... if what you say is true, why and how are Insurance companies making such incredible profits?

Im curious to see how you justify that.

You mean outrageous profits of $.01 per $ of premium?? WTF do you think they are, retailers that can immediately raise prices when their merchandise costs go up?

Do you know what happens to the vast majority of those "profits"? They arent profits at all. They add to reserves for future losses, losses that have become much riskier under Obamacare.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/28/2011 7:11:49 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:11:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Profits were up around 40% last year. You mean to tell me that they were not making a profit before then and are just now seeing a penny on a dollar profit now?



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:12:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Profits were up around 40% last year. You mean to tell me that they were not making a profit before then and are just now seeing a penny on a dollar profit now?




They were making fractions of a penny before, not zero. And see my edit about the misnaming of what is being called "profits" in those statistics.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:15:59 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Do you know what happens to the vast majority of those "profits"? They arent profits at all. They add to reserves for future losses, losses that have become much riskier under Obamacare.







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:17:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Do you know what happens to the vast majority of those "profits"? They arent profits at all. They add to reserves for future losses, losses that have become much riskier under Obamacare.








Which is very pretty but doesnt address anything I said, it just repeats the misconception about what is profits and what the margins really are.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:26:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The perception for your end of the business is one thing, the perception of those at the other end is another thing, willbe. To sit there are say... we dont have the money.. when people are seeing the profits, and hearing about the bonuses, just dont add up.

No matter how you try to turn this, its making a business out of the health of people. For how many years? You state its now because of Obamacare... what was the excuses in 2006 when United paid its CEO a billion dollar bonus?

People just arent buying into it anymore, willbe. Mathematically, it doesnt make sense.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:48:53 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:


Is it? Do you know how much it cost to provide? Do you know what services run up bills over $1 million in one year? (Lifetime max's under most policies had a provision to reset after a year of recovery) Do you know how most employer and union plans have dealt with the elimination of lifetime max's? (Assuming you don't know think "unintended consequences")


Well, if the medical insurance companies couldn't reign in their mushrooming costs, and health insurance reform is going to implode the system, why should the people paying premiums let you prosper. Dude, I'm from the Boston area. Partners, Harvard Pilgrim, Tufts, Fallon, Blue Cross, just to name a few... We have more stock symbols for healthcare corporations registered out of this state than anywhere else I have ever heard of. Even the grotesquely red Boston Herald throws the quarterly profits in our face 4 times a year and they are obscene when you compare them to a corporation operating at 100% profit. I must now about 30 or 40 people employed by health carriers and the lowliest of them, an assistant office administrator, has decent home in a nice neighborhood. And frankly, when I press em for details they won't come out and say anything devastating but they sure as hell don't act like they are practically a non-profit, like you're making out. So why not skip the part where we're supposed to believe the folks who've taken away a larger increase of our income than any of our other creditors have for the last 10 - 12 years (going buy when they when IBM started cutting bennies and blaming your industry).
  There seems to be some kind of impression on the part of the people from the industry I hear bitching that we should hold the industry in some higher regard than say, the electric or gas or oil companies. Never gonna happen, not ever. Your company makes hefty profits just like all the rest of them. And do't get me wrong. I think you know from our conversations that I consider you a friend in this place and HONESTLY, I am neither picking on you personally, nor ever plan to start. But this was a HUGE problem for consumers when George "Leave the market to it's own devices and dodge any questions about it" Bushwas at the wheel for 8 years, and though I can't rememember being squeezed in the 90s, I also have to say that I worked for a 1300 employee company with a share price of $137 a share (so you KNOW they were taking good care of us during Shiva's)... And even then, the Clinton Admin saw there was reason enough for concern. The health care industry has survived rather well during this recession. I was told by a lady who is my former neighbor, whom I got tight with cause we were both single parents. And in fact she was a very helpful friend as I went through a big layoff, starting a consulting company, and even having to short sell my house. And she used to say "I am so blessed that there isn't much going on at my company other than them culling undesirables". And she had maybe 20 people in some kind of claims unit reporting to her. Lemme tell you, she did alright and still does... and if anybody wants to see where I lived before I had to start my own business and cut everything the fuck back. Load up google earth and PM me. I'll show you to within a 1/4 mile where my house was. I don't think there's many that lived in as pretty a spot as I did. And it wasn't free by any stretch of the imagination.
    But health care companies really need to GET that it's either on their shoulders or on the Govt's because you CAN'T say that for the last decade the consumer isn't paying every penny they can afford. And if all the BS passed around by the so-called " free markets" blowhards is even vaguely true. It's clearly the responsibility of the medical industry to make their product affordable, or suffer the same rejection any other vendor in this economy faces.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 7:53:23 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The perception for your end of the business is one thing, the perception of those at the other end is another thing, willbe. To sit there are say... we dont have the money.. when people are seeing the profits, and hearing about the bonuses, just dont add up.

No matter how you try to turn this, its making a business out of the health of people. For how many years? You state its now because of Obamacare... what was the excuses in 2006 when United paid its CEO a billion dollar bonus?

People just arent buying into it anymore, willbe. Mathematically, it doesnt make sense.


Yes, because the numbers are misunderstood.

But first....doctors are in business, pharma is in business, nurses are in business, med tech companies are in business. Yes, health is a business. As it should be. Efficiencies and advance are found in business, not in government.

Once again you ignore the fact that what is being called profits arent what a non-insurance business calls profits...they cant be pocketed, they cant be paid out in dividends and bonuses. They go into reserves to cover future claims. They increased because premiums increased to cover future claims. Nobody will see that money but people who file claims.

And the "billion dollar bonus" is a myth. Increases in option prices because a company's stock goes up are not a bonus. Risk was taken that the stock would go down or up. It went up. So sue him for doing a good job.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:01:00 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

And the "billion dollar bonus" is a myth. Increases in option prices because a company's stock goes up are not a bonus. Risk was taken that the stock would go down or up. It went up. So sue him for doing a good job.


And what was that "good job"?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:10:34 PM   
SternSkipper


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Status: offline 		That's interesting looks like the profits of the companies participating in the Mass plan aren't making above 200 mil, but they're showing profits. I live in mass and we have private and MassHealth which utilizes Healthnets mass subsidiary and possible Health Spring's too. So I guess there is a lot at stake with Obama Care. Just not what the pundits are saying is at stake.

Jesus Christ ... Would this guy consider carpet bagging his way over to Massachusetts before the senate election?

NEWS: SF Weekly: Congressman Pete Stark Aims to Save Medical Marijuana Dispensaries Big Bucks Thursday, 26 May 2011 10:38 United States Congressman Pete Stark, (D-Fremont) introduced legislation on Wednesday that would amend the tax code and allow pot dispensaries to deduct the price of medical marijuana on their federal tax forms. What's even more significant is that Stark's cosponsor is a Republican -- and that alone makes it a good day for the politics of pot.


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RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:11:54 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

Being a republican is a hard limit for me.


That's okay Darlin' you don't want to be around when I buy that big motherfucking donkey anyway.
On a happier note. IMAGINE if I were a republican and it was the democrats on the dark side of the force






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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:12:04 PM   
NewOCDaddy


Posts: 134
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And the "billion dollar bonus" is a myth. Increases in option prices because a company's stock goes up are not a bonus. Risk was taken that the stock would go down or up. It went up. So sue him for doing a good job.


And what was that "good job"?


Increasing shareholder value, every CEOs primary responsibility.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:13:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		By denying treatments, procedures, medications and equipment.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NewOCDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:15:32 PM   
NewOCDaddy


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Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

By denying treatments, procedures, medications and equipment.


Bullshit. Insurance policies are contracts. If something isnt covered it isnt covered. If it is covered, it is paid or they would be sued and lose not only the cost but damages, plus the loss of future business. Arbitrary denial of coverage is a myth that youve been trying to perpetuate on this site since Ive been here.

< Message edited by NewOCDaddy -- 5/28/2011 8:16:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:17:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Did you not watch the congressional meetings on this? HC insiders were admitting to this, willbe.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NewOCDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: GOP braces for Medicare blowback - 5/28/2011 8:27:24 PM   
NewOCDaddy


Posts: 134
Joined: 1/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Did you not watch the congressional meetings on this? HC insiders were admitting to this, willbe.



Wendell Potter????? hopefully you are referring to something else youre trying to spin into something it isnt. If you mean WP, youre just joking.

< Message edited by NewOCDaddy -- 5/28/2011 8:28:31 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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