RE: protection collar? (Full Version)

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Emperor1956 -> RE: protection collar? (5/13/2006 10:41:43 PM)

Here I am, replying to myself.

When I posted my thoughts on protection collars I did not realize that I was right in the middle of the crossfire between crappyDom and Lady Hugs.  As I am geographically right between them as well, I can't keep looking to the left and then the right coasts to make sure their respective advancing armadas don't graze my tender flanks.  And I want to say I do not know EITHER of them, except through their posting personas on these lists.

SO:  In  referencing CrappyDom and Lady Hugs in my posts, PUH-leeze, don't think I prefer, refer, worship or otherwise pay attention to either of them, especially when they lose it in public as they both did.

(and both of you should know better.  Get a room and beat the hell out of eachother, but please, try not to let it spill over to otherwise civil, intelligent discourse -- which you both are very able to take part in if you'd put the egos back in their respective black boxes)...

Waving his white flag...

E.



CrappyDom -> RE: protection collar? (5/13/2006 10:55:23 PM)

Lady Hugs,
 
I at least recognize when I am being a pompous ass and admit it, you however put out a CD.
 
I offer my advice up as hard won PERSONAL experience; you wrap yourself in the various cloaks of "old days" bullshit.  I smelled it the first time you posted but you hadn't really laid yourself out where I could expose your game.
 
I am not attacking ANY group and you know it, I am attacking YOU and the game YOU play. 
 
quote:

  What personal experience, knowledge, information, skills that I earned first hand is mine.  It is mine to share, mine to keep and that is my right, regardless of any one and or many demand it. 
 
Great advice, I hope you take it!  I have no doubt you have wonderful advice to give, just give it.  Just don't try and wrap it up in some mystical "old days" crap and if you do, expect someone to point it out to you because I am not the only one who calls a spade a spade.



LadyHugs -> RE: protection collar? (5/13/2006 11:23:02 PM)

Dear Emperor1956, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I do apologize for allowing an individual to provoking me into a response that was off topic.
 
For those I have disappointed, I am truly sorry. 
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs



CrappyDom -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 12:28:46 AM)

quote:

In the 1990s, when thing were getting more "Internet" exposed and a few self titled Masters were floating around, and slaves were getting caught up into situations, as few "caught on" that there were clueless folks around, abusing the trust and titles of "Masters" and "Mistresses" the community in the support venue, started to think on how to offer a real big "bugger off" to the whanker, controller and unkind folks.  So, the "Protection Collar" was created.


It was the above pile of BS you were defending, which is rather ON topic I would say. 

Setting aside any number of rather large red flags and focusing on the ones addressed in this thread, if the "community" recognizes there were "a few self titled Masters" who were just "whanker, controller and unkind folks" and rather than either throwing these idiots out or education the helpless submissives to recognize idiots, this group of mysterious elders instead created "collars of protection"? 
 
Sounds like these elders could teach Tony Soprano a thing or two about the protection racket.  Glad nobody I know was part of that idiotic group of elders, out here we just ban the idiots and empower people to spot any we missed.



twicehappy -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 5:44:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear Emperor1956, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I do apologize for allowing an individual to provoking me into a response that was off topic.
 
For those I have disappointed, I am truly sorry. 
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs


Dear sweet LadyHugs, i read all your posts, most are very well thought out and written. Do not feel bad, you are not the 1st to let the Lord of the 12th Order of the 12 House on 12th Street provoke you into a battle. Occasionally his words make sense but more often than not it turns into "I’m right you are wrong, na na nah" pissing contest.

While my owners were also irritated and normally allow me to defend myself and often vehemently defend me, at one point they even told me to drop it after he decided i was fair game rather than continue a pointless war. So i did, the funny thing is cosmic karma does exist and he was served his desserts.

You are human and were provoked, use your block button if you need to, or if you feel that strongly about the advice you wish to give, email the person privately.

Hugs..... Go feel better, twice

P.S.  C.D., if you feel the urge to come back and flame me over this, have fun, i've had you blocked for a long time, it is not worth the irritation to me.   



KatyLied -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 5:56:42 AM)

A "collar of protection" sounds goofy to me.  Who do you need protection from?  Probably the very person (predator, user) who is offering you the "collar of protection".  If you can't be on-line or venture out to a lifestyle function without a "collar of protection", perhaps you aren't ready to take these steps.



sensiia -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 5:58:04 AM)

I personally never understood all the different collars, especially the collar of protection, when did people stop taking care of themselves, what is wrong with just saying I am not interested in playing or whatever they seek from you. If they become a annoying talk to the Host/Hostess.







smilezz -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 6:29:44 AM)





quote:

has anyone ever been hurt so  by the "Collar Of Protection."

No, never.  It's nothing more than a 'chatism'.

I have been doing/living this for 20+ years, and only when i went into a chat room did i ever hear this term.  If you need protection, i suggest some self-defense classes.......a collar will not do it for you.

~smilezz~
 



twicehappy -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 6:35:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

A "collar of protection" sounds goofy to me.  Who do you need protection from?  Probably the very person (predator, user) who is offering you the "collar of protection".


I myself have never needed a collar of protection, yet i do understand the theory and have seen the practice help those who may have otherwise fallen prey to the unscrupulous. Granted, i am sure there are those who would use such to take advantage of someone new or unsure of themselves. But to imply that all who offer this are villains is simply wrong.

My owners extended a collar of protection to a young lady across the pond, they guided her, gave her a shoulder to cry on, a ear to whisper into and a strong arm for protection.

When this girl finally came to meet them as much as the liked her she understood they would never offer her a permanent collar. Why? Because much like a child they had reared they felt that would be an abuse of someone they had raised in the lifestyle, much like parents raise a child in the vanilla world.

Since then she has visited with her husband a few times, they are welcomed as cherished friends. This particular young lady would never have found her way without this collar of protection, so it was a very real gift to her.

Why did my owners bother? Maybe because even in today’s oh so cynical world of "it is all about me" and "what can i get out of this", there are still a few hardy altruistic souls who still believe the human race or human individuals possess some intrinsic value. These few are still willing to nurture that frail flower to full bloom simply for the joy of watching its inner beauty unfold.

quote:

If you can't be on-line or venture out to a lifestyle function without a "collar of protection", perhaps you aren't ready to take these steps


When you first learned to walk did someone hold your hand? When you first learned to ride a bicycle did you have training wheels? Or an adult who held onto the back of the bike to steady you? When you learned to drive were you put in a car and handed the keys with no help no guidance? 

There are a few of us who learned this way, but most i believe had some sort of guidance.

To put it plainly; When you discovered you were a submissive did you dress in your corset and heels walk into a play party and drape yourself over a whipping platform and expose your back to a snake whip? Or did you have a partner teach it to you slowly?

Some folks wanting to explore do not have the prerequisite partner and are wisely seeking to protect themselves from abuse. A collar of protection offers them a safety net from which they may explore.
  




puella -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 7:03:21 AM)

Hello twicehappy,

Firstly... I wanted to say... good advice to LadyHugs... although I have decided that Crappy is going to be my future husband, and that we are going to have many many many beautiful children together and that I will be his one and only true love and reform him to the ways of living a good and beautiful life...I do realize he can be a bit trying at times now ( I do attribute that to the fact that I have not yet been able to snag and reform him, but don't worry, I am already planning the large Italian/Catholic wedding, so it's just a matter of time.  Please do not send a toaster, I would much prefer a couple of Silpats!).

In regards to the collar of protection (does that sound at all like some magical item in a D&D game to anyone else besides me?  I have in my Sack of Many Things, a my Boots of Elvin-Kind, my Cloak of Invisibility and my Collar of Protection, now let me whip out my 12 sided die and see just how well they are working for me...?)... I can appreciate the kindness your owners extended that girl, and think if more people were as generous of spirit, this world would a much better place.  However, I do take exception to the idea that she was in any sort of collar at all.  This is just my opinion!!!  But this is my line of thinking.... a collar is something and represents something very concrete and profound to me.  It is the symbol of complete devotion and surrender for the slave, and the symbol of commitment and complete ownership of the owner.  It is the unification of two opposite pieces making a whole.. a whole relationship, symbiotic and complete.  To say you are in a sort of kind of temporary training/protection collar, feels a bit to me like you are not at a place where you can understand the profound meaning of the collar to that relationship.  It also is a bit, to me, offensive.  A collar is not begged for protection, it is not begged for what you want and need a Dom/Master to give you, it is not begged to help you negotiate the many men who will be plaguing you for your attention, it is not begged for to ease you into the lifestyle... It is begged because your longing to be owned by this person; your intense love and inexplicable drive to serve, to submit and surrender and bring pleasure to this other person, even beyond yourself, is go great, it is very very clear to you that to beg a collar and surrender your rights and place yourself as submissive to this person is not only clear and desirable, but absolutely right.

Anything else is just some sort of negotiation.



KatyLied -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 7:29:34 AM)

quote:

In regards to the collar of protection (does that sound at all like some magical item in a D&D game to anyone else besides me? I have in my Sack of Many Things, a my Boots of Elvin-Kind, my Cloak of Invisibility and my Collar of Protection,


Yep, that pretty much sums it up.  It's a silly notion at best.  And anyone who needs it can't be dealing in any reality that I would want to share.



Kirei -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 7:48:19 AM)

Or you can look at it like this....My collar of protection, my cuffs of slavery, my cloak of submission, and the domiant's bag of many devilish wonders!

Koneko



puella -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 8:16:57 AM)

huh?



twicehappy -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 8:18:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Hello twicehappy,

although I have decided that Crappy is going to be my future husband, and that we are going to have many many many beautiful children together and that I will be his one and only true love and reform him to the ways of living a good and beautiful life


Good luck, you will need your magic wand! I'll send you a gag as a wedding gift, what's his size?

quote:

However, I do take exception to the idea that she was in any sort of collar at all.  This is just my opinion!!!  But this is my line of thinking.... a collar is something and represents something very concrete and profound to me.  It is the symbol of complete devotion and surrender for the slave, and the symbol of commitment and complete ownership of the owner. 


And you are entitled to your opinion. Do you think that the collar of protection they gave her was not concrete or profound? If they had offered her the total collar of a slave i would agree with you. They gave her a collar of protection, something different altogether. Basically it sounds like you are arguing there is no such thing as a collar of protection, but there is, maybe not in your world but in the community at large many practice this form of collaring for the stated reasons.

If you posted a poll i am sure you would discover this practice is widespread both online and in real time. 

quote:

To say you are in a sort of kind of temporary training/protection collar, feels a bit to me like you are not at a place where you can understand the profound meaning of the collar to that relationship.


This would be the very reason for offering a training or protection collar.

Tell me did no one guide you into this lifestyle? What if you had not had a mentor?

quote:

  It also is a bit, to me, offensive.  A collar is not begged for protection, it is not begged for what you want and need a Dom/Master to give you, it is not begged to help you negotiate the many men who will be plaguing you for your attention, it is not begged for to ease you into the lifestyle


A now i see, not to be rude here but do you realize that not everyone has the same reasons for begging a collar as you? Why are you so easily offended by someone in a different situation than yourself begging a collar for a different reason than you? Are you also offended if someone buys the same potato peeler as you but then proceeds to peel carrots with it instead?

Are you of the opinion yours is (chokes on next words) the only real true one way? What may fit your situation may not fit everyone else's. Not everybody is cast from the same mold.

quote:

It is begged because your longing to be owned by this person; your intense love and inexplicable drive to serve, to submit and surrender and bring pleasure to this other person, even beyond yourself, is go great, it is very very clear to you that to beg a collar and surrender your rights and place yourself as submissive to this person is not only clear and desirable, but absolutely right.


Beautifully written and quite right if one is begging to be collared as a full time slave.


quote:

ORIGINAL:Katylied

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.  It's a silly notion at best.  And anyone who needs it can't be dealing in any reality that I would want to share.


In your reality i guess there is no patience for those bold enough to discover something new yet young and unsure enough to need a steadying hand. Tell me did you put your unsure child of five on a ten speed walk off and wish them luck? Would you be happy to discover the pilot flying your plane applied for the job got hired was given the keys to the plane and left alone to fly it with no schooling, no lessons and without a senior pilot in the cockpit?

Sure there are some of us who could pull it off but do you want to be the lucky passenger on the plane of the one who could not?

Did you jump into bdsm knowing everything? Or did you also learn from someone?



CrappyDom -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 8:36:35 AM)

Would Socrates be considered great if he did anything other than push his students to be independent thinkers?   What sort of teacher attaches strings to the mere offer of his wisdom?  Imagine if universities required that students serve before allowing them to learn? 



LadyMorgynn -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 8:39:50 AM)

Personally, I think a collar of protection is a terrific idea, both for newcomers, and for submissives who have a need for guidance in their search for a Master/Mistress. 

What I don't understand is the intolerance and complete lack of empathy  for or concern for the emotional needs and overall wellbeing of those who, by their very nature, are vulnerable to being used and abused by unethical people (and not necessarily just those in the BDSM world, either).  And this, from the people who should care the most!  Shame on you, I say.

Edited to add: this is NOT a response to twicehappy, as the stupid software has added on the bottom of my post.  It's a response to those others earlier.



twicehappy -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 8:46:42 AM)

LadyMorgynn, well put, and direct response to me or no, well appreciated. 



LadyMorgynn -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 8:48:28 AM)

One of the local groups in my area offers what they call a "House Collar," for newcomers who feel unsure of themselves, not knowing anyone, maybe new to the scene entirely and not sure what they like and don't like and afraid to take those first steps but equally afraid of offending by asking or being embarrassed to say no if approached (or, possibly, even to say yes!).  Anyone wishing to play with the submissive in question must ask the Dungeon Monitor, who then determines the submissive's wishes; or, the DM may approach a Dom on the submissive's behalf. 

All in all, the house collar is intended to be a kind of buffer to make the newcomer feel more comfortable, and eventually they'll find their feet and not want it any more.



OhBeMyMind -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 9:43:46 AM)

Why not paint a huge red dot on their forehead and call it a day.

Yet now we move from 'protetction collars' that really protect nothing.....to said 'house collars' that is intended to make someone feel more comfortable?  I thought I had heard it all with the 'protection collar'....wow was I wrong!

I do not see how my opinion, or any others opposed to this whole 'protection collar' issue, shows intolerance, lack of empathy, or lack of concern for new comers.  I was new once, we all were at some point (well except for CrappyDom who just might have been born dressed in leather, with whip in one hand and crop in the other [;)] ).
However, instead of (IMO) further tainting the (true) significance of a collar, introduce yourself to a new face, then in turn introduce them to other people, offer friendship, if they seem somewhat timid or scared or oh gosh even unable to think for themselves...encourage them.....let them know you or Larry, Curly or Moe are available if they need advice or suggestion or help.  But to slap a collar on their neck, misleading other people, and having them think its going to protect them from all evil or suddenly make them feel comfortable, 10 foot tall and bulletproof....is just (IMO) absurd!

Note: This is purely my opinion...it is not a personal attack on anyone...this is a forum for conversation (and other twisted commentary [:D] ), and my post is simply my opinion in the flow of conversation, it is not intended to fuel or offend anyone.



LadyHugs -> RE: protection collar? (5/14/2006 9:50:37 AM)

Dear LadyMorgynn, twicehappy, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Many individuals and households, organizations that train use "House" collars which also can be considered as "protection collars," as to establish the protocol, discipline, authority, protection and the respect.
 
When collared slaves attend one particular training academy, to which I have first hand knowledge about; has the understanding why their collar is removed that belongs to their Master and the training one installed until the academy is over; then their owner's collar is installed once more.  This "mutual" understanding between Owners and the Academy.  The slaves understand the transformation from one to the other and back again.  It allows those being trained to mentally, emotionally, honorably step from their Owner's expectations and rules into the Training Academy's rules and expectations, as to focus on the academy experience which proves to many as being intense.
 
By having the Owners giving their support and agreement to these collaring exchanges, the slave is supported and never left in a state of freedom.  Those slaves who are free with no owner, they are wearing the same exact style collar and lock, as to be uniform as well as to experience the same journey with each other.  The slaves do have their voices and opinions, to which many have acknowledged how important the Training/House collar meant to them.
 
Masters, Mistresses and slaves alike, are not intimidated by this protocol, they invite such with the understanding of it's purpose and it is appreciated as a "protection" collar.  The duties are shifted from owner, to academy staff and once finished, the duties are shifted back to the owner.
 
This has been true in the old days in my time line.  It has been practiced this way for many decades successfully.  It remains successful in the present day, from what I have witnessed.

It is true, that perhaps; there will be different names and or labels tacked onto such thing as a collar.  The collar has meaning to everyone and holds value to the one who seeks, who petitions and or is bestowed with the collar; just as it has value, meaning to the dominant who considers the petition and or uses it in the purpose of which it was to be used, with duty, responsibilities, ethics and guardianship.
 
There will be no denial, that there will be cases of abuse.  Such abuse is not confined to just "protection" collars but, all collars can be abused.
But, it is not the collar that abuses--it is the people that purposefully choose to abuse others.
 
Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs
 
 
 



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