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RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 7:16:24 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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I agree as well.

I wonder if this is something that common ground for the majority of Americans could be found?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I'd support backing up the rebels, with supplies, park a few ships...but, no more wars!...Bring them all home from that God Foresaken part of the world! Bush, Obama, the one after Obama(2016...added that for THomas)....just no more freaking wars!

I find that I am in basic agreement with your cognitive dissonance.

Firm



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 8:20:43 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

How many fucking times do you lefties have to be told that Congress saw the same fucking intelligence Bush did, and voted to give Bush the authority to wage the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Unlike Obama, who didn't even fucking bother to interrupt his golf game to ask Congress.

Your blatant hypocrisy is nauseating.

Bush lied my ass, he just did what Clinton didn't have the balls to do.



Congress and The People DID NOT receive the intel the President had.

A. On December 9, 2001, CHENEY announced on NBC's Meet the Press that "it was pretty well confirmed" that lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta had met the head of Iraqi intelligence in Prague in April 2001, which statement was, as CHENEY well knew, made without reasonable basis and with reckless disregard for the truth, because it was based on a single witness's uncorroborated allegation that had not been fully investigated by U.S. intelligence agencies.

B. On July 15, 2002, POWELL stated on Ted Koppel's Nightline: "What we have consistently said is that the President has no plan on his desk to invade Iraq at the moment, nor has one been presented to him, nor have his advisors come together to put a plan to him," which statement was deliberately false and misleading in that it deceitfully implied the President was not planning an invasion of Iraq when, as POWELL well knew, the President was close to finalizing detailed military plans for such an invasion that he had ordered months previously.

C. On August 26, 2002, CHENEY made numerous false and fraudulent statements including: "Simply stated there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us," when, as CHENEY well knew, this statement was made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that the IC's then prevailing assessment was that Iraq had neither nuclear weapons nor a reconstituted nuclear weapons program.

D. On September 7, 2002, appearing publicly with Blair, BUSH claimed a recent IAEA report stated that Iraq was "six months away from developing a [nuclear] weapon" and "I don't know what more evidence we need," which statements were made without basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that: (1) the IAEA had not even been present in Iraq since 1998; and (2) the report the IAEA did write in 1998 had concluded there was no indication that Iraq had the physical capacity to produce weapons-usable nuclear material or that it had attempted to obtain such material.

E. On September 8, 2002, on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, RICE asserted that Saddam Hussein was acquiring aluminum tubes that were "only suited" for nuclear centrifuge use, which statement was deliberately false and fraudulent, and made with reckless indifference to the truth in that it omitted to state the following material facts: (1) the U.S. intelligence community was deeply divided about the likely use of the tubes; (2) there were at least fifteen intelligence reports written since April 2001 that cast doubt on the tubes' possible nuclear-related use; and (3) the U.S. Department of Energy nuclear weapons experts had concluded, after analyzing the tubes's specifications and the circumstances of the Iraqis' attempts to procure them, that the aluminum tubes were not well suited for nuclear centrifuge use and were more likely intended for artillery rocket production.

F. On September 8, 2002, RUMSFELD stated on Face the Nation: "Imagine a September 11th, with weapons of mass destruction. It's not three thousand, it's tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children," which statement was deliberately fraudulent and misleading in that it implied without reasonable basis and in direct contradiction to then prevailing intelligence that Saddam Hussein had no operational relationship with al Qaeda and was unlikely to provide weapons to terrorists.

G. On September 19, 2002, RUMSFELD told the Senate Armed Services Committee that "no terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people than the regime of Saddam Hussein," which statement was, as Rumsfeld well knew, made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that: (1) Hussein had not acted aggressively toward the United States since his alleged attempt to assassinate President George H. W. Bush in 1993; (2) Iraq's military forces and equipment were severely debilitated because of UN sanctions imposed after the 1991 Gulf War; (3) the IC's opinion was that Iraq's sponsorship of terrorists was limited to ones whose hostility was directed toward Israel; and (4) Iran, not Iraq, was the most active state sponsor of terrorism.

H. On October 1, 2002, the defendants caused the IC's updated classified National Intelligence Estimate to be delivered to Congress just hours before the beginning of debate on the Authorization to Use Military Force. At the same time, the defendants caused an unclassified "White Paper" to be published which was false and misleading in many respects in that it failed to include qualifying language and dissents that substantially weakened their argument that Iraq posed a serious threat to the United States.

I. On October 7, 2002, in Cincinnati, Ohio, BUSH made numerous deliberately misleading statements to the nation, including stating that in comparison to Iran and North Korea, Iraq posed a uniquely serious threat, which statement BUSH well knew was false and fraudulent in that it omitted to state the material fact that a State Department representative had been informed just three days previously that North Korea had actually already produced nuclear weapons. The defendants continued to conceal this information until after Congress passed the Authorization to Use Military Force against Iraq.

J. Between September 1, 2002, and November 2, 2002, BUSH traveled the country making in excess of thirty congressional-campaign speeches in which he falsely and fraudulently asserted that Iraq was a "serious threat" which required immediate action, when as he well knew, this assertion was made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth.

K. In his January 28, 2003 State of the Union address, BUSH announced that the "British have recently learned that Iraq was seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa" which statement was fraudulent and misleading and made with reckless disregard for the truth, in that it falsely implied that the information was true, when the CIA had advised the administration more than once that the allegation was unsupported by available intelligence.

L. In a February 5, 2003, speech to the UN, POWELL falsely implied, without reasonable basis and with reckless disregard for the truth, that, among other things: (1) those who maintained that Iraq was purchasing aluminum tubes for rockets were allied with Saddam Hussein, even though POWELL well knew that both Department of Energy nuclear weapons experts and State Department intelligence analysts had concluded that the tubes were not suited for nuclear centrifuge use; and (2) Iraq had an ongoing cooperative relationship with al Qaeda, when he well knew that no intelligence agency had reached that conclusion.

M. On March 18, 2003, BUSH sent a letter to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate which asserted that further reliance on diplomatic and peaceful means alone would not either: (1) adequately protect United States national security against the "continuing threat posed by Iraq" or (2) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant UN Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq, which statement was made without reasonable basis and with reckless indifference to the truth in that, as BUSH well knew, the U.S. intelligence community had never reported that Iraq posed an urgent threat to the United States and there was no evidence whatsoever to prove that Iraq had either the means or intent to attack the U.S. directly or indirectly. The statement was also false because, as BUSH well knew, the UN weapons inspectors had not found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and wanted to continue the inspection process because it was working well.

N. In the same March 18, 2003 letter, BUSH also represented that taking action pursuant to the Resolution was "consistent with continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorists attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001," which statement was entirely false and without reasonable basis in that, as BUSH well knew, Iraq had no involvement with al Qaeda or the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 371.


You prove my point exactly, fargle.

Here you are castigating Bush in great detail. Once again. 

Yet your reaction to Obama's clear and unambiguous violation of the War Powers Act?

"Meh.  Who cares?!"

Ok, I changed my mind.  You are a hypocrite.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 8:29:00 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Yet your reaction to Obama's clear and unambiguous violation of the War Powers Act?

what clear and unambiguous violation would that be?   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 8:33:13 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:


You prove my point exactly, fargle.

Here you are castigating Bush in great detail. Once again.


Actually I was correcting the incorrect recollections of another poster with actual facts.

quote:


Yet your reaction to Obama's clear and unambiguous violation of the War Powers Act?

"Meh. Who cares?!"


Yes, and I have explained the reasoning before. You are welcome to review the thread and if you have any questions, I'll be glad to address them once you're up to speed.

quote:



Ok, I changed my mind. You are a hypocrite.

Firm


Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man


I do, by the way, understand the source of your confusion.

You're responding to a post which didn't involve you, and as such, you failed to grasp the context of it.

I would have thought the quoted text from the message to which I was responding would have been sufficient to even the most casual of observers, but it appears that once again I have overestimated the abilities of some who frequent these message boards.

Of course, this brings up the question:

What part of "You are incorrect. I'm all for the DOJ and Congress indicting and/or impeaching Obama for any indictable/impeachable offenses. " didn't you understand?




< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/4/2011 8:44:28 AM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 9:33:16 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Let's say, for purposes of this discussion, that Obama's actions are indeed Constitutionally wrong (writing to both sides here).

He's not only a scholar, but a politician as well, and one who has enjoyed a successful career (in terms of getting elected to office to date).

One could argue, then, that what's going on is that he realizes what he can *actually* do, vs. technically do. Just as others (Bush/Cheney most recently).

Right or wrong is another discussion.

My stance? I agree with Firm and Orion and Mark. I also think a majority of Americans feel this way. We're tired of wars, and they're costing us a fortune--not to mention lives and strained military families.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 9:51:34 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yet your reaction to Obama's clear and unambiguous violation of the War Powers Act?

what clear and unambiguous violation would that be?  

Good point, Ron.  You may have me.

I'll check up on it later, but I'm involved in the "Palin is dumb" thread, plus work, so I'm going to delay investigating right now.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: "Constitutional Scholar" Schooled By Cong... - 6/4/2011 9:56:48 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/usc_sec_50_00001543----000-.html

looks like it was changed february this year.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 27
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