RE: Dumbing down ? (Full Version)

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SilverMark -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:15:13 PM)

My point is that the same argument is made with every generation, when I was a kid, the adults just knew that long hair and rock and roll music would lead to the damnation of our society.

It was Elvis Presley, the Beetles, those hippies, the TV, the movies etc.

Now it is rap music, TV, video games and the computer, yet is there one comparative analysis that reflects those opinions?

I truly don't understand the some of the music that my 21 year old son likes, but they didn't make that music for me, and he really quite bright and will succeed after he graduates from college next year just as the preceding generation did.

I just find the premise to be smug and a bit condescending, we have no idea what the brain power of those in the coming generations will bring, just like our parents would never have guessed that the generation I am a member of has brought the computer into more homes in more places than anyone might have been able to predict.

No one walks around with their IQ tattooed on their forehead so the next person you hear discussing American Idol or some other form of mindless entertainment could be much brighter than either you or I would give him credit for being.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:20:05 PM)

quote:

My point is that the same argument is made with every generation, when I was a kid, the adults just knew that long hair and rock and roll music would lead to the damnation of our society.


Except with the flower power generation dominating democrat thought they might just have been right.

Unless he is exceptional his success may be delayed until the GOP has a chance to undo the damage done by Obama.



SilverMark -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:24:11 PM)

Will, I bet if you looked real hard, you could find a few ex-hippie Republicans...and I know you'd find Libertarians that were!....I think all that free thinking might have lead to the whole libertatrian way of thinking....no proof, just opinion.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:28:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Will, I bet if you looked real hard, you could find a few ex-hippie Republicans...and I know you'd find Libertarians that were!....I think all that free thinking might have lead to the whole libertatrian way of thinking....no proof, just opinion.


I don't have far to look. Any mirror will do. If you believed the rhetoric at the time libertarianism would have been the natural path. Unfortunately what they really meant was don't trust anyone over 40 until I'm 40.



thompsonx -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:36:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Unless he is exceptional his success may be delayed until the GOP has a chance to undo the damage done by Obama.



What damage has obama done that the gop is going to undo?



lovmuffin -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:41:12 PM)

I remember my dad always griping our grade school and high school materials and curriculum were simple compared to what they had when he was in school.  20 years later looking at my nephews school materials and text books, they were simpler than what I had. It was especially noticeable for reading and English.



pahunkboy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:43:12 PM)

We are upon the transhuman era.


It is much closer then you think.   Observe how many people are not 3 feet from their cell phone.   



SilverMark -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:45:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I remember my dad always griping our grade school and high school materials and curriculum were simple compared to what they had when he was in school.  20 years later looking at my nephews school materials and text books, they were simpler than what I had. It was especially noticeable for reading and English.


When you were in school. I am sure you had to walk to and from school uphill both ways through the snow. Our memories of just how tough we had it, are always more sympathetic to oursleves as to difficulty.



pahunkboy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 6:48:45 PM)

We went to the same school.    It was up hill both ways to my school too. 



Edwynn -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 7:11:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

My point is that the same argument is made with every generation, when I was a kid, the adults just knew that long hair and rock and roll music would lead to the damnation of our society.

It was Elvis Presley, the Beetles, those hippies, the TV, the movies etc.

Now it is rap music, TV, video games and the computer, yet is there one comparative analysis that reflects those opinions?

I truly don't understand the some of the music that my 21 year old son likes, but they didn't make that music for me, and he really quite bright and will succeed after he graduates from college next year just as the preceding generation did.

I just find the premise to be smug and a bit condescending, we have no idea what the brain power of those in the coming generations will bring, just like our parents would never have guessed that the generation I am a member of has brought the computer into more homes in more places than anyone might have been able to predict.

No one walks around with their IQ tattooed on their forehead so the next person you hear discussing American Idol or some other form of mindless entertainment could be much brighter than either you or I would give him credit for being.





Silver Mark, I am not arguing 'against' what transpires today, just presenting an argument, as has existed for millennium in consideration of the latest societal input. I did this when I was a teen, HS dropout that I was. I'm not stopping now. In my former life, I was an audio engineer, and had to quit because my ears just could not take it anymore. 

It has been smacked into our forehead here lately that things are not always as they seem, in case that might have escaped notice.






pahunkboy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 7:13:35 PM)

BAck in school the teachers used to talk about grade inflation.     We never hear that term any more. 



SilverMark -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 7:20:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

My point is that the same argument is made with every generation, when I was a kid, the adults just knew that long hair and rock and roll music would lead to the damnation of our society.

It was Elvis Presley, the Beetles, those hippies, the TV, the movies etc.

Now it is rap music, TV, video games and the computer, yet is there one comparative analysis that reflects those opinions?

I truly don't understand the some of the music that my 21 year old son likes, but they didn't make that music for me, and he really quite bright and will succeed after he graduates from college next year just as the preceding generation did.

I just find the premise to be smug and a bit condescending, we have no idea what the brain power of those in the coming generations will bring, just like our parents would never have guessed that the generation I am a member of has brought the computer into more homes in more places than anyone might have been able to predict.

No one walks around with their IQ tattooed on their forehead so the next person you hear discussing American Idol or some other form of mindless entertainment could be much brighter than either you or I would give him credit for being.





Silver Mark, I am not arguing 'against' what transpires today, just presenting an argument, as has existed for millennium in consideration of the latest societal input. I did this when I was a teen, HS dropout that I was. I'm not stopping now. In my former life, I was an audio engineer, and had to quit because my ears just could not take it anymore. 

It has been smacked into our forehead here lately that things are not always as they seem, in case that might have escaped notice.





I do understand, and appreciate your point.



Edwynn -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 7:49:33 PM)



I appreciate your point too. I was hoping you might understand the discourse here.

Your point is well taken. I was quite young at the time, but I still remember some arguments regarding Beach Boys vs. Beatles. And reading some recent history, I recall as how Jazz was to be the undoing of society. That was in the 30's. In the 50's or 60's, we couldn't get enough of Lois Armstrong.

My concern with rap is that it is so loud and so misogynist and so atonal. This is difficult for one with sensitive ears and prior experience to music qua music. That stuff is harsh.


But you strike the mark in saying that we have no idea what the youngest of us can move beyond.


I have seen that firsthand also, even with whatever the advertisement or entertainment paradigm throws at them.

If you are trying to tell me that at least some few of these younger folks are champs, I cannot argue.





pahunkboy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 7:56:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Unless he is exceptional his success may be delayed until the GOP has a chance to undo the damage done by Obama.



What damage has obama done that the gop is going to undo?



I think he is being a wise guy.     The GOP is not going to fix anything- and the Obama mess IS the GOP mess as well.  They are all in bed together.



pahunkboy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 8:00:31 PM)

Rap is a nursery rhyme rant.    There is nothing musical about it. 



Edwynn -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 8:06:20 PM)




Which is why it was wisely called rap from the outset. No musical intention about it.

But that doesn't take away from the originators, Gil Scott Heron, and years later,  NWA.

That explained 98% of it.


The rest was just cashing in by others. And unfortunately some still doing that.












pahunkboy -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 8:11:40 PM)

I think the attention span of people is shorter now- then even 10 years ago. 



Edwynn -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 8:21:38 PM)



I'm not even sure if people bumping into me in public as from distraction to poking fingers into their little pad would prove or disprove the point there. 




Owner59 -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/6/2011 9:30:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




Which is why it was wisely called rap from the outset. No musical intention about it.

But that doesn't take away from the originators, Gil Scott Heron, and years later,  NWA.

That explained 98% of it.


The rest was just cashing in by others. And unfortunately some still doing that.











Gil Scott Heron who died like just a week ago,RIP, wasn`t the first to put words to a beat.It has it`s roots in Jamaica with artists rapping or doing spoken word to a bongo or other drum.

The form rap takes today is a 3rd or 4th generation and hasn`t always appealed to folk`s better sides.



But it`s extremely popular,especially amongst white people.So it must be credible.[:D]


I like the more serious political messaged work.The bling and bitches thing makes me yawn quickly.

Old school and newer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU5lQsV0L6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaN01VLYSQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxlFcZjBvw



Aneirin -> RE: Dumbing down ? (6/7/2011 3:15:48 AM)

The only one I ever bought back in the day;

http://youtu.be/WUTJgk0HFqw

and that because it tells a story of glamour that isn't.

But I used to think rap had a silent 'c', much of it does still, but there are always some gems that come up.

But rap is I feel more like blues for a modern period, a reality that faces many in a modern real world situation.

But is rap dumbing down, well, I feel it is and it isn't, sure it dumbs down the wannabes, but some of it actually attempts to educate into the futility of the lifestyle that so many seem to be attracted to in order to be noticed in a world that tends not to notice people unless they are exceptional or notorious.

But why do people want to be noticed, is it the get rich quick mentality that drives so many no matter how short lived, is it indeed better to burn out than fade away.

A lot of it I feel is down to pure disenfranchisation, how people feel in a fast moving and often uncaring world, where we are taught to care, a confusion perhaps and with the confusion, anger.

And of course the commercial sector and media feed on that and promote it as their greed can see no harm.

But as video games and quick action killing related videos were mentioned in this thread, those that partake of them, the young and impressionable in many cases, what are they being taught ?

Is a country breeding warriors for future wars ?






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