RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (Full Version)

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LillyBoPeep -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 5:21:38 PM)

the "grown adults" point is so important. a lot of people use things like this to justify really bad behavior. using it as a mask for being passive aggressive or bitchy, etc. i don't think that's right, and i think maybe a lot of that is what contributes to people thinking that subdrop isn't real?
what was often most helpful for me in my last relationship were the "after action reports" =p he'd give me time to think about what we did and how i felt and such, and then we'd have a conversation about it. he really liked to talk about feelings and such, so it helped to get a lot of it out.
when i've played casually as a single person, if i can't talk to the person i played with (thankfully with my Top friend, that's usually not an issue) then i get a blankie and watch cartoons and take a warm shower.



catize -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 5:47:04 PM)

You forgot CHOCOLATE! Best sub drop antidote that I know!



CreepyStalker -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 6:34:16 PM)

I used to hear people talking about 'sub drop' and wonder why I never got it, no matter how intense the play I'd experienced. Then someone explained to me what it actually felt like... I get it all the time, I just hadn't noticed.

I never registered the feeling as 'sub drop' as it's not a notable experience and certainly not a kink-specific one; kink is just one of many awesome and intense experiences that induces it. I've always had some kind of 'drop' after anything that makes me exceedingly happy, and (despite what VC might claim about my apparent grumpiness) I'm exceedingly happy a lot of the time. My life is really fucking amazing and has been constantly for several years now. I'm fully used to having an afternoon/few days of intense happiness, then calming down the next day and feeling utterly shite for an hour or so as my mind readjusts to normality.

I actually really love it. It's inextricably mixed in with the high that caused it, so I just tend to revel in it for a while till it passes. It's fine; it's not real unhappiness, just necessary angst to balance things out. I'm going to be a bit presumptuous and suggest that the whole palaver over 'sub drop' as a phenomenon is perhaps because a lot of people don't get this feeling as often or from non-kink things and so aren't used to dealing with it. I'm guessing if it didn't happen to me all the bloody time, I'd be liable to make a fuss over it a want attention/comfort too. (Actually I really wouldn't, but I could at least empathise with that inclination is what I mean).



NuevaVida -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 6:40:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

I used to hear people talking about 'sub drop' and wonder why I never got it, no matter how intense the play I'd experienced. Then someone explained to me what it actually felt like... I get it all the time, I just hadn't noticed.


That's how I was before, too - I knew I felt crappy, I just didn't know there was a name for it until I started reading message boards.

quote:


I actually really love it. It's inextricably mixed in with the high that caused it, so I just tend to revel in it for a while till it passes. It's fine; it's not real unhappiness, just necessary angst to balance things out. I'm going to be a bit presumptuous and suggest that the whole palaver over 'sub drop' as a phenomenon is perhaps because a lot of people don't get this feeling as often or from non-kink things and so aren't used to dealing with it. I'm guessing if it didn't happen to me all the bloody time, I'd be liable to make a fuss over it a want attention/comfort too. (Actually I really wouldn't, but I could at least empathise with that inclination is what I mean).


This is a really cool and fascinating take on it.  I read it a few times because I loved it for some reason.  Thanks for sharing. [:)]



PetiteOralSub -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 6:49:49 PM)

The titling, 'sub-drop' maybe unfortunate, as it really is a common biological reaction, and Masters experience it as well, and as you have pointed out,
it can occur as a reaction to any great high, any massive endorphin flood, can bring on the physical manifestations of sub-drop.

I think it tends to be associated more with BDSM play, because of the emotional component that is added.
The physical come down from all those sweet juicy nuero-chemicals that get produced during intense play,
is manageable with sensible aftercare, and when tenderly adminstered by Master, it seems to ameliorate the emotional sub-drop somewhat,
becuase the emotional connection is re-established then broken gently, not abruptly at plays end.

I am a newbie, I have been in the Lifestyle just over a year, I experience an emotional sub-drop that is devastating, and has lasted as long as 2 weeks once.
However, when I play it is intense, but i do not get to play with any regularity, or even predictability, becuase I am uncollared.
So, for all I know, everytime I play, could be the last time i play ever in my life, and that thought is devastating and scares me into paralysis.

My hope is that once collared or at least serving some one on a regular basis, it can be managed.

so, yes, it is real, the emotional differences in BDSM make it a little more unique I think.



angelikaJ -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 7:15:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

In my time in the scene, I have witnessed the evolution of this phenomenon. It used to be said that sub-drop was something that affected a submissive after a scene - where they might be tired, thirsty, possibly requiring a blanket and a glass of water or maybe just a big hug, to something that now seems to be more akin to an LSD flashback taking place hours, days or even weeks after a scene, party or other BDSM episode, and involving tears, tantrums, depression, feelings of jealousy and paranoia, self-harm and violent or irrational behaviour that can last from a few hours up to several weeks, and often requiring time off work. All of which requires a Dom who not only totally accepts and understands this behaviour, but is on hand to pamper the submissive in every way possible.

Interestingly, 'sub drop' only seems to affect women (I'm totally willing to be wrong about that, but I've never heard male submissives talking about it) and only submissives (although seemingly brought on by s&m play scenes, it seems to be submissives rather than masochists who suffer from it).

So what do you think? Am I being unfair? Or is sub-drop getting way out of hand as a BDSM phenomenon? Has sub-drop grown during your time on the scene? (I would love to hear from anyone who was doing BDSM prior to the late 90s, and whether sub-drop existed before then and if so, in what form?) Does sub drop really exist or is it just some sort of retribution from submissives who feel that their Dom owes them a self-indulgent duvet day? As a Dom, do you accept or tire of sub-drop? If sub drop does exist, is it worth it to play when it will cause this reaction? Is it similar to the male submissive who orgasms, and then wants to disassociate entirely from the BDSM activities they engaged in whilst they were horny?

chastity xxx




Well, I am curious about these examples you cite as being "sub-drop" ":... tantrums, depression, feelings of jealousy and paranoia, self-harm and violent or irrational behaviour that can last from a few hours up to several weeks, and often requiring time off work. ..."
How common is your experience with those manifestations in anecdote or experience?

Bad behaviour is just that, bad behavior, attention seeking behaviours are attention seeking behaviours, but a mood disturbance that requires time off from work is probably related to an underlying emotional issue or mental illness.

I can see how in theory at least someone who might have funky brain chemistry to begin with, could possibly have issues with the sudden rises and falls of certain neurotransmitters.

(One of the reasons chocolate is a good remedy is because it contains a certain neurotransmitter.)



Daddysredhead -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 7:23:12 PM)

Fast reply:

I have no clue what you are talking about with respect to the more violent, self-harming behaviors. I have been doing this for 8 years, and I have had subdrop several times when my Sir played with me, and maybe a day or so later, I felt a bit "lost" in my emotions, or a little weepy or sad. I have never heard of anyone, much less myself, getting to the point that you reference in your opening post.

It also isn't just a female occurrence. There are male subs or bottoms who have experienced the same feelings that I have after a particularly intense scene. I haven't read any other posts, and just wanted to add my two cents.

I simply haven't witnessed anything like you have stated, from either side of the kneel. (I'm a switch.)

~ Red



OsideGirl -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 7:30:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PetiteOralSub
The physical come down from all those sweet juicy nuero-chemicals that get produced during intense play
This. It's basically an endorphin hangover.



juliaoceania -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 7:35:19 PM)

I have had sub drop that lasted a couple of days, and it was not THAT dramatic for me. It involved feeling like I was slightly hung over, sorta slightly blue. It is not surprising that something that leads to a euphoric feeling for some of us may lead to coming down, like off a drug.

I do not have anything I can say about other submissives, but it was only really masochistic scenes that have made me drop... the type that left me black, blue, purple, and magenta.... with deep bruising..

It wasn't like I didn't handle it, and only one time was it really necessary to call my partner at the time and tell him I needed to hear his voice because of it, since he was a few hours away while I was coming down. I had somewhere I had to be right after we were done playing, and I didn't get the aftercare I needed on that occasion.



HeatherMcLeather -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 8:28:29 PM)

I've never experienced anything drastic, after a heavy session I do feel very fragile, both physically and emotionally. Sometimes I'm weepy, I'm usually shaky, and often very tired and muddle-headed.

It can last a few hours, but its never been anything really big for me. We only do those sorts of sessions when there is nothing afterward, so we go to bed and snuggle, watch TV, eat yummy things, and just be together. I find that being able to relax and immerse myself in us just makes me feel safe, so the feeling of fragility becomes a source of pleasure. I get enormous satisfaction from that feeling when I am there safe and secure wrapped in Hanners' arms and can just revel in her Hannerliness.



NuevaVida -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 8:37:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
I find that being able to relax and immerse myself in us just makes me feel safe, so the feeling of fragility becomes a source of pleasure.


This is something I enjoy, too, when he just wraps me up in his arms and we fall asleep together afterwards.  I'm sometimes a little weepy and he kisses away my tears, and I just love the feelings of fragility that I feel, tucked into him.  He grins and teases me for my clingyness, and I scoot in as close as humanly possible.

I've never really equated that with "sub drop," though, just part of the overall experience. Perhaps because it doesn't compare in the slightest to the "drops" I've felt in the past.



sexyred1 -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 9:10:24 PM)

Not sure where all the "retribution" and negative descriptions are coming from. I have been doing this since I was a teen, and always experience sub drop after an intense scene. It is the endorphin drop, being exhausted and having to regroup.

Nothing negative about it; simply chemistry.



juliaoceania -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/13/2011 9:17:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Not sure where all the "retribution" and negative descriptions are coming from. I have been doing this since I was a teen, and always experience sub drop after an intense scene. It is the endorphin drop, being exhausted and having to regroup.

Nothing negative about it; simply chemistry.



I think that the op said only one thing that I found slightly dubious:

quote:

Interestingly, 'sub drop' only seems to affect women (I'm totally willing to be wrong about that, but I've never heard male submissives talking about it) and only submissives (although seemingly brought on by s&m play scenes, it seems to be submissives rather than masochists who suffer from it).


In the context of the OP, it seemed as though (and I could be wrong about that) she was inferring that it is a thing in the female mind, as though because men don't seemingly get it (and I do not know where she gets this impression from) that it isn't "real"...

If men do not get it, that could well be that they do not have the same hormonal issues that women suffer from. I am not convinced men do not get it because of the experiences I had with Sinergy when he was teaching women's self defense, which required him to get beaten up by women, caused his adrenaline levels to skyrocket, and he often came down off of that, and was even more impacted than I was from play.

Also, there was this claim that masochists do not suffer from sub drop, but subs do. I am a masochistic sub, so where do I fit in this? Sub or masochist? The two are hardly mutually exclusive.



Kana -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/14/2011 3:48:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

In my time in the scene, I have witnessed the evolution of this phenomenon. It used to be said that sub-drop was something that affected a submissive after a scene - where they might be tired, thirsty, possibly requiring a blanket and a glass of water or maybe just a big hug, to something that now seems to be more akin to an LSD flashback taking place hours, days or even weeks after a scene, party or other BDSM episode, and involving tears, tantrums, depression, feelings of jealousy and paranoia, self-harm and violent or irrational behaviour that can last from a few hours up to several weeks, and often requiring time off work. All of which requires a Dom who not only totally accepts and understands this behaviour, but is on hand to pamper the submissive in every way possible.

Interestingly, 'sub drop' only seems to affect women (I'm totally willing to be wrong about that, but I've never heard male submissives talking about it) and only submissives (although seemingly brought on by s&m play scenes, it seems to be submissives rather than masochists who suffer from it).

So what do you think? Am I being unfair? Or is sub-drop getting way out of hand as a BDSM phenomenon? Has sub-drop grown during your time on the scene? (I would love to hear from anyone who was doing BDSM prior to the late 90s, and whether sub-drop existed before then and if so, in what form?) Does sub drop really exist or is it just some sort of retribution from submissives who feel that their Dom owes them a self-indulgent duvet day? As a Dom, do you accept or tire of sub-drop? If sub drop does exist, is it worth it to play when it will cause this reaction? Is it similar to the male submissive who orgasms, and then wants to disassociate entirely from the BDSM activities they engaged in whilst they were horny?

chastity xxx




Let's see, I'm a male, and a dominant, and wanna know what? I experience dom drop on a fairly regular basis.
When I play, especially when it's an extended in depth session, maybe even one of those that lasts for days, I focus in real tight on what I am doing, to the point where it becomes akin to a meditative state/trance, in which the world is locked/blocked out except for the focal nexus.
Now I don't get that all slo-motion moving through molasses effect that subs do, and I don't get all weepy, but there is definitely a transition back to reality, the trance state sharpness of the world kinda blurs as I come back up and the almost highlighted details recede back to normalcy. Within a few hours there is usually an emotional crash as the endorphins drop. I get moody and sensitive, sometimes wrestle a bit with depression.
Because of this, and knowing how sub crash affects women, I like to do lots of touching post play, cuddles, etc. Personally I like get back rubs, it provides the contact that we both need, lets her pour herself into me in an act of giving and lets me float slowly back up (Or to sleep-yeah, that happens too if I'm relaxed enough:-)).



DesFIP -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/14/2011 11:46:29 AM)

If you totally exhaust brain and body chemicals, do expect not to feel up to snuff until they've had a chance to build back up to normal levels. This is just common sense.

Marathoners experience drop also they just don't call it drop, they call it post marathon depression. Exhaust endorphins and expect a consequence. It's not just bdsmers.

It's easier to become dehydrated than to rehydrate. Same with blood sugar tanking, even if you go eat a high protein and complex carb meal after, it won't build back up in your system for four hours. A candy bar will give you a quick lift followed by a worse drop. Read up on how the body works and learn what to do to avoid it and when to expect it.



BubblegumPiglet -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/14/2011 12:10:11 PM)

Wow, so that's what it's called.
I have never scened before, but I'll get terribly weepy, weak feeling and uber feminine after a good hard fucking by M'Love. It usually lasts the night.
I never have engaged in self destructive behavior before...



submitting4U -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/14/2011 12:37:52 PM)

I do experience this phenomena with severe whippings and public "forced-bi" scenes. Degradations like these engender psychological regressions, PTSD like reactions, which can manifest itself in many ways. You have cited many examples and there are infinite ways they can manifest. Yes, men, both masochists and/or submissives do often experience these reactions. Abuse in childhood, severe neglect, and/or being ostracicized can all induce our repression system and set one up for later flash back experiences.



sexisubi -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/14/2011 1:09:09 PM)

oh sub drop!! *sigh*

i feel like ive been on a sub drop for 8 months just cause my sub side is caged again. like a kitten trying to get out of her carrier! purrrroar! purrroar!



myotherself -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/14/2011 1:22:31 PM)

I'm a female submissive and a masochist.

I get sub-drop during and after scenes.

One notable scene, when playing quite hard with a Top in a fet club, I got so high on endorphins I had a giggling fit that was pretty much manic. And then I got shivery, felt really cold and my legs buckled. A few sugar tablets and a bottle of water later and I was good to go again.

With Master I can get weepy and a bit 'clingy' if we're playing hard, but he loves this and always gives me a cuddle before we continue.

Sometimes I feel a bit hyper (in a good way) for a day or so afterwards, then the cold, hard reality of life hits and I can feel a bit blue for no particular reason. But again, a quick message to Master and a virtual hug usually helps put things right.

As for anything more intense - never happened to me. Self-harming and all that stuff makes me think (as other posters have suggested) that maybe the sub involved has underlying issues that are exacerbated by the endorphin/adrenalin rise and fall.



SnowRanger -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/15/2011 10:36:55 AM)

Hello A/all,

I can only speak for myself; but this is my experience. What ever D/s experiences that I have occur out of town. Somewhere during my drive home, I experience a "bottoming out" (for lack of a better phrase). It requires me to stop driving and get a cup of coffee or something. After a short stop I am able to continue home.

I attribute this to the "Sub-Drop" phenomenon.

Respectfully,
Mike



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