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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 1:05:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

Don't get me wrong, I've stopped casual scenes I wasn't enjoying before now, but with a committed partner who I've promised to submit to, it seems like a cop-out to quit when the going gets tough. I know that's not what safewords are about, and that's more my hang up than anything else, but it's just the way I've always felt.

owned xxx

i can relate to that -- the one time i used one (i was scared out of my mind for some reason and couldn't make myself chill out) in my last relationship, that was how i felt. =p HE didn't make me feel bad for doing it, on the contrary, i did. =p
so i think, on one hand, sure it is up to me to communicate if something's going wrong and the other person can't tell, but i found that i preferred to stick through something, even if i felt scared or had an initial negative reaction, or was feeling overloaded -- that part of service was far more fulfilling to me.
casual playing is different from a committed relationship; i have no problem saying "okay cut it out" in a casual thing, but a committed one is where the servicey part of me really comes out.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 6/15/2011 1:06:27 PM >

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 1:07:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

that's kinda why i'm thinking about the "duty to his s-type's well being" thing -- i have seen that statement applied to Doms/Masters, and i'm wondering if subs/slaves feel anything similar? do you believe you have some duty to your D-types well-being? a good portion of people here believe that both halves are responsible for the survival/success of the relationship; is that a kind of duty?

I wouldn't define it as duty but as part of caring for each other. He reminds me to take my meds and I do the same for him. It's why I ask him at night if he's really, truly, positive he wants regular tea instead of the herbal decaf. Because I know he won't sleep if he drinks the caffeinated kind.

If you don't take care of each other, can you really be said to care about them?

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 1:46:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I wouldn't define it as duty but as part of caring for each other.

This. Carol and I do what we do for each other because we love each other, not because we promised to or because we have some sort of duty or obligation. We do it because it works out well for our marriage and makes us very happy. I think I'd be horrified to find out that "duty" was what was motivating Carol.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 1:58:35 PM

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i don't necessarily think that doing something out of "obligation" is always negative; i agree that caring for each other is the basis of a lot of stuff. but i also think you can be obligated by those feelings of caring to do certain things. an obligation can simply be something that compels you to act, like your feelings of love for another person, not necessarily that you're doing it because "you're supposed to" and for no other reason.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 2:03:17 PM

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I'm fine with Carol doing things for me because she is obligated to herself and her own sense of love. I am so definitely NOT fine with her doing things for me "because she promised". That's an obligation to me and I don't want it and don't need it. When we talked about this this morning I immediately said, "Fine. Then right here and now I fully release you from any promise you've ever made to me."

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~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 2:06:26 PM

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ah okay -- i understand that distinction, definitely.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 4:22:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I'm fine with Carol doing things for me because she is obligated to herself and her own sense of love. I am so definitely NOT fine with her doing things for me "because she promised".

I can relate to this. I would be pretty sad, I think, if his reasons for doing what he does came from a sense of "duty" rather than from his heart. And I think he'd feel the same in reverse.

All this talk of duty and honor makes me think of the military lol. That's not how I want to think of this relationship. We're love based, and what we do for each other, we do out of love for the wellness of each other and of our relationship.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 4:50:46 PM

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i dunno, i don't really think of it that way but everyone has their own perceptions.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 5:00:23 PM

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I made a commitment to do his will; so my sense of honour, along with many other things compels me to obey him. The only exception that he allows if it will harm by well-being to do his will. In those cases, I talk with him and he then makes a decision on what he wants me to do.

I very rarely ever give my word without first having his approval. When he gives his approval, then I will keep my word.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 5:00:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i dunno, i don't really think of it that way but everyone has their own perceptions.

Absolutely, which is what makes this board so cool - seeing all the differences.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 5:41:47 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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FR

Wow, some really cool points of view, thanks everybody.
I think now would be a good time for me to put out my thinking, now that I've had a chance to read and consider some of yours.

When Hanners and I started we made an agreement. I didn't promise anything, in fact, part of that agreement was that since this is my first experience with D/s, we could revert to vanilla whenever I wanted to. But my own personal sense of honour drives me to fulfill that agreement to the best of my ability. I feel I have a duty to do so, not to Hanners or to "the relationship", but to myself.

I agreed to something, which to me means I gave my word, that I would abide by that agreement. One's word is really all one has, if its not good, then one has nothing. If any sort of trust is to be established and maintained, then one's word must be good.

As far as promises to other people, the best I do is either say I'll ask Hanners, or that I will if Hanners says it's OK. If the "promise" passes that test, then I am pretty much with everybody else, I'll try to fulfill it, and if I can't I'll let whoever know that I can't and why. This goes for pretty much any commitment, even something as vague as "we'll get together Saturday".

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 5:45:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
that's kinda why i'm thinking about the "duty to his s-type's well being" thing -- i have seen that statement applied to Doms/Masters, and i'm wondering if subs/slaves feel anything similar? do you believe you have some duty to your D-types well-being? a good portion of people here believe that both halves are responsible for the survival/success of the relationship; is that a kind of duty?

For us, it is a fine line. Alandra and I have no authority over the decisions that he makes that will impact his well-being. He on the other hand has complete authority over the decisions that will impact mine and Alandra's well-being.

A very recent example in our life.... last Friday he hurt himself while he was away (7 hours north) and it was so bad that he could barely walk. So, he decided to drive home. I just asked Alandra if it had happened to us, would he have allowed us to drive home instead of seeking medical attention. I didn't even get the question out before she said "NO!"

What I did do is research what might possibly be the problem and give him all the information so that he could then decide what to do... which resulted in us spending three hours in the emergency room. Luckily isn't wasn't serious, only something painful that takes time to heal.

Our duty is to provide him the information and express our opinions when allowed. We do not have the authority to say what he will or will not do.

Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 5:49:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

For us, it is a fine line. Alandra and I have no authority over the decisions that he makes that will impact his well-being. He on the other hand has complete authority over the decisions that will impact mine and Alandra's well-being.

that's an interesting point to make and perhaps why the issues of "honor" and "duty" are more often applied to Dominants. it may seem like a simple issue, but i think it's worthwhile to hammer it out for discussion purposes. =p

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Our duty is to provide him the information and express our opinions when allowed. We do not have the authority to say what he will or will not do.

Knight's Kyra

this is the kind of stuff i think of. help filling in the blanks when necessary or when asked, etc etc. a lot of it depends on how your relationship is structured i suppose, but yeah -- that's a good example.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 6:32:38 PM

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quote:

Do you feel bound by your honour or sense of duty to obey?

Not by a sense of honor or duty, no. I obey because I want to.

quote:

do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?

No. Duty has nothing to do with honoring one's word.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 8:02:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
As a sub/slave, do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?[/color]

Do i have the same duty to keep my word? Of course. Do i have a duty to obey absolutely? In my case, no.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 6/15/2011 8:05:51 PM >

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:00:58 PM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

Our duty is to provide him the information and express our opinions when allowed.

that's the way i saw things going when we started out, but since it has become painfully obvious to me that heather is a fuck of a lot smarter than i could ever hope to be, she is now expected to not only provide me with information, but to actively advise me.

it's not like i clear every decision with her, but when she has reason to think i've fucked up, she's fucking well expected to say so. its up to me what i do with her advice, i just happen to be smart enough to take it most of the time.

i mean what's the fucking point of having a really smart slave if you don't fucking well listen to her?

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:46:06 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I'm fine with Carol doing things for me because she is obligated to herself and her own sense of love. I am so definitely NOT fine with her doing things for me "because she promised". That's an obligation to me and I don't want it and don't need it. When we talked about this this morning I immediately said, "Fine. Then right here and now I fully release you from any promise you've ever made to me."

This sounds nice in theory but, for example, I've never been allowed to masturbate in this relationships and at the moment I'm being denied orgasms for 6 months, and if I was released from any promises I'd made, then I'm pretty sure that me and some hot literature would be in the bedroom right now! There are also days when I don't really want to wear the sexy underwear that he has bought for me, or do the cleaning, or make him muffins, but my sense of wanting to stick to my promises is what carries me through doing the less easy or enjoyable things about our relationship. If I wasn't the type of person to stick to my promises, I would probably be more of a 'do-me' sub, submitting only when I wanted to, to the things I wanted to. Making, and keeping promises is my way of ensuring that the relationship is more balanced, in that I give service and don't just take the elements that I want from the relationship.

owned xxx

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:51:25 PM

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As a Domme I would expect that any sub in my household would expect me to be responsible and trustworty with not only my word but in all that I do and I do expect the same from any sub I have,yes I commit to "honor" when I commit to be responsible for another human being,and expect the same from a sub to be all that they can be,

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 11:54:30 PM

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As is often the case with questions like this, I don't view it as having anything to do with the Power Dynamic -- one should "keep their word" to whomever they gave it to.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/16/2011 5:14:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

This sounds nice in theory but, for example, I've never been allowed to masturbate in this relationships and at the moment I'm being denied orgasms for 6 months, and if I was released from any promises I'd made, then I'm pretty sure that me and some hot literature would be in the bedroom right now! There are also days when I don't really want to wear the sexy underwear that he has bought for me, or do the cleaning, or make him muffins, but my sense of wanting to stick to my promises is what carries me through doing the less easy or enjoyable things about our relationship. If I wasn't the type of person to stick to my promises, I would probably be more of a 'do-me' sub, submitting only when I wanted to, to the things I wanted to. Making, and keeping promises is my way of ensuring that the relationship is more balanced, in that I give service and don't just take the elements that I want from the relationship.

owned xxx

that's a spectacularly honest reply -- nice!

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