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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/18/2011 12:49:00 PM

pahunkboy

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That sounds right.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/18/2011 7:25:56 PM

Owner59

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I`m starting to think that some of our ODS-cons would be bashing President Obama for killing fuck`n bin-laden the wrong way.

Oh......that`s right.lol We did get some jack-assed ODS-cons, whining on Pakistan`s behalf, over bin-laden`s killing.lol

Gaddafi killed 270 Americans!

What more fuck`n reason and/or legality must we have to go after him?

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/18/2011 10:04:17 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Gaddafi killed 270 Americans!

What more fuck`n reason and/or legality must we have to go after him?

So you both acknowledge that we are engaged in hostilities, and agree that it would be an easy deal to deal to get the official okely-dokely from Congress then? So why is the President making ridiculous claims, instead?

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/18/2011 11:47:34 PM

Owner59

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 4:09:48 AM

StrangerThan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The New York Times is reporting that the top lawyers at the Pentagon, and the top lawyers at the Department of Justice were overruled by President Obama, when he decided that there are no "hostilities" in Libya.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/world/africa/18powers.html?_r=2

It isn't hostile to commit overt acts of war, if you do it by remote control? It is ludicrous on its face.

Why even take this route at all? Congress would codify his promise that we won't be sending ground forces, and sign him a check. Instead, the President seems determined to aim straight for the Constitutional cow pattie. Why?

I supported our role in Libya. I still do.

Here's the stupid thing about this mess though - which is eerily reminiscent of some of the stupid things Bush and Clinton did.

Instead of simply following the law, They sought legal advice to support the opinion they wanted in the first place - namely some play on words that not only identifies, but attempts to slip through a loophole. So we go from technical definitions of sex, to torture technicalities to, I don't have to because even through we're helping bomb the hell out Gadfly, that role isn't hostile.

The straight face test in this case is to call bullshit.

I wonder where in the legal wrangling that surrounded Bush and Clinton, someone stuck a thumb up and said, this is a great route to go!

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 11:08:58 AM

TheHeretic

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I just cannot see the political logic in it, Strange. If Kuhdaffy had fallen early on, yes. With bin Laden, that would have been the sort of foreign policy double tap that placed the issue on his side of the table in the election. The big reward of a swift victory is gone now. With Congress on board, he could still claim the credit, and have something to cover his ass from the risk.

Instead, he's chosen to force the issue, running with an Orwellian legal ploy.

I also think you are dead right. Somewhere along the line, somebody thought this was a great idea.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 11:20:21 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Sometimes things that are done today, that make no sense, fall into place tomorrow and with a different event. Maybe there is some future plans that this precedent needs done, to accomplish the future task.

I stopped trying to figure this stuff out.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 11:33:14 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Sometimes things that are done today, that make no sense, fall into place tomorrow and with a different event. Maybe there is some future plans that this precedent needs done, to accomplish the future task.

That may well be true, Orion, but I'm going to be leery of any future plans that need a precedent of the US President claiming there is nothing hostile about making war, when you do it by remote control.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 12:15:15 PM

mnottertail

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When such a claim is ever made, I will take a similar stance.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 12:22:46 PM

Owner59

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No,that`s what you say he said.

No one feels obligated to debate that.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 1:34:02 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

No,that`s what you say he said.

No one feels obligated to debate that.

I think otherwise, O59. I think that because of the President's decision to proceed on the path he has chosen, a lot of folks are going to feel obligated to debate the unprecedented methodology and tactics underway.

Please don't try the "he never said that," ploy. Anyone who has spent any time watching this President knows that what he says, and what he winds up doing, are unrelated. The definition of what we are doing in Libya is written by what we are doing in Libya. Res ipsa loquitur.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 6/19/2011 1:45:33 PM >

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 1:37:53 PM

mnottertail

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We are supporting NATO according to treaty and our ability. We have no American boots on the ground and in harms way.

We have no dogs in the fight is not the same as we are cockfighting.

Nevertheless, it is not a soritical leap that I would be soundly repremanded for, were I to say that the right is going to spin it your way.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/19/2011 1:39:14 PM >

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 2:12:45 PM

Brain

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Canadian fighter jets have dropped 240 bombs over Libya Maybe Canada is doing most of the fighting.

Canadian military releases Libya bombing stats
Allan Woods Ottawa Bureau

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/996944--canadian-military-releases-libya-bombing-stats

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 3:03:56 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Canadian fighter jets have dropped 240 bombs over Libya Maybe Canada is doing most of the fighting.

That would be less than 3 bombs a day, Brian, so no.

NATO has flown 10,000 odd sorties over Libya, including 3,794 "strike" missions.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 6/19/2011 3:16:41 PM >

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 3:10:28 PM

popeye1250

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And what is he doing trying to give away billions of our Taxdollars for some "Arab Spring" thing when I read in Yahoo today that there's a search on for $17 B that's,....."missing" in Iraq?

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 3:18:10 PM

Owner59

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Yeah,those Canucks.......warmongers they are.........

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 3:58:54 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

And what is he doing trying to give away billions of our Taxdollars for some "Arab Spring" thing when I read in Yahoo today that there's a search on for $17 B that's,....."missing" in Iraq?

Smoke and mirrors. The missing money in Iraq has nothing to do with Obama, since it took place under Bushes watch.

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 4:10:50 PM

Owner59

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The cons kinda wanna nod nod,wink wink,pretend our present troubles belong to President Obama.....and kinda wanna,nod nod,wink wink want others to think that too.

Hence the fair tail narrative where bush never existed,Iraq never happened and there was never a bush recession.

Fuck`n Obama and those horrible bureaucrats did this to us!!

.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/19/2011 4:13:11 PM >

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 6:00:38 PM

luckydawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I just cannot see the political logic in it, Strange. If Kuhdaffy had fallen early on, yes. With bin Laden, that would have been the sort of foreign policy double tap that placed the issue on his side of the table in the election. The big reward of a swift victory is gone now. With Congress on board, he could still claim the credit, and have something to cover his ass from the risk.

Instead, he's chosen to force the issue, running with an Orwellian legal ploy.

I also think you are dead right. Somewhere along the line, somebody thought this was a great idea.

Heretic, this is a great idea for Europe.

Dems are doing what they always do, what ever the Europeon left tells them to.

Thats why he can't articulate a reason.

Why is Libya important, while Syria is not?

Why is it worth killing Civilians in Libya to free them?

Why is the law not worth following?

My gut reaction at first was to immediatly set up a no fly zone. Stop the use of air power. Instead we waited (what 6 weeks) for Ghadaffi to dig in, and weaken the Rebels significantly, leading to this NATO led thing, where our Money and Force is being used by others for thier goals. And a long drawn out conflict.

If were in, if its worth it, lets go in and kill the fucker and everyone in his tribe, SHOCK AND AWE!!!

If its not, why are we there at all?

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RE: "Hostilities" - 6/19/2011 6:13:21 PM

Owner59

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