RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro?

RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (Full Version)

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mummyman321 -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/7/2011 5:06:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa Ok...so they admit it's real! Now for the reason I am posting here, on a BDSM forum. Do you think that play sessions can aid in setting a person up to create this? If the pain receptors are a big part and basically they are over reacting, perhaps the stimulus that is involved with BDSM, coupled with added stress in the person's world, causes Fibro to develop? I truly do not believe BDSM/ pain play would lead to Fibro. I can only speak from person experience. I have had more than my fair share of surgeries for various reasons (9 total). Two of those were back surgeries on local anesthia. If you like pain, have your spinal cord touched while you away. Talk about nerve stimulation! I have also 7 broken bones ( 2 older brothers and we just never knew when to quit playing). I suffer from chronic back pain and this is on top of 20+ years of BDSM play. So from a medical standpoint I would say I have had a stressful life. And I have suffered pain both in and out of BDSM and a lot of it. If nerve stimulation combined with stress was the main cause, I would think I am a super candidate. Personally I think its more on the lines of Epilepsy. For whatever reason the brain decides to fire the pain receptors in the body. In Epilespsy the brain's nerve cells miss fire and cause a surge of electrical impulse that overload the central nervous system. I cannot help wonder if Fibro is similar. But in this case the neurochemical receptors for pain get over loaded. But this is a wild guess on my part.

tammystarm -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/7/2011 5:46:39 PM)
Imo i doubt that to much hard play would cause fibro. generally they find traumatic experiences, and generally in the form of physical trauma (but not in my case) the pusher from genetric predispostition.....

tazzygirl -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/7/2011 9:11:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: If muscles etc. were the source of the problem then why do SNRI's work so well for so many? Pain causes depression. Not all fibro patients are depressed. Not all fibro patients respond to SNRI's. But imagine the level of depression after dealing with the pain for years before most people are diagnosed. Of course SNRI's are going to be beneficial. No. The study that tested the SNRI showed a marked decrease in pain associated with FM soon after taking the drug started (1week) which is too fast for for it to be simply a matter of getting better sleep. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19108787 Getting better sleep in just a few days can have amazing rejuvenating abilities. Abstract Purpose Published evidence on the pathophysiology, diagnosis, and treatment of fibromyalgia is reviewed, with an emphasis on recent clinical trials of various pharmacologic agents. Summary Fibromyalgia affects an estimated 2% of the general U.S. population, and its incidence is sevenfold higher among women. The diagnostic characteristics of fibromyalgia are chronic widespread pain, thought to arise from abnormalities of ascending pain and descending inhibitory sensory pathways, and allodynia on palpation of specific tender points. Three medications available in the United States are labeled for treatment of fibromyalgia-related symptoms: the serotonin- and norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitors duloxetine and milnacipran and the α(2)-δ ligand pregabalin. Evidence from clinical trials indicates that all three drugs can have a significant impact on fibromyalgia-related pain; duloxetine and pregabalin have been demonstrated to reduce sleep disturbances and improve quality of life (the former also has been shown to improve mood), while milnacipran can offer significant benefits in reducing fatigue. A growing body of evidence suggests that the best treatment approach may involve the use of one or more agents whose mechanisms of action are aligned with patient-specific clusters of symptoms. Several other agents have been used for fibromyalgia, with mixed results, including tricyclic antidepressants, selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors, opioids, and gabapentin. Given the limitations of the evidence from clinical trials to date, controlled trials directly comparing different agents are needed to better delineate adverse-event risks, cost considerations, and optimal management approaches. Conclusion A broad range of drugs has been used to treat fibromyalgia. Symptoms, comorbidities, adverse effects, and patient preference are important considerations in drug selection. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21719591 RESULTS AND CONCLUSIONS: We found eligible studies of treatment for fibromyalgia with amitriptyline, nortriptyline, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, cyclobenzaprine, pregabalin, gabapentin, milnacipran, and duloxetine. We found no eligible studies with the other included drugs and no eligible studies of included interventions when used as adjunctive therapy. Head-to-head trials were few, and provided low-strength evidence that short-term treatment with immediate-release paroxetine is superior to amitriptyline in reducing pain and sleep disturbance and provided low-strength evidence there are no significant differences between amitriptyline as compared with cyclobenzaprine and nortriptyline. Although there were some significant differences between drugs in overall adverse events, they did not produce any differences in withdrawals due to adverse events. Additionally, based on indirect comparison meta-analysis, we found low evidence that duloxetine was superior to milnacipran on outcomes of pain, sleep disturbance, depressed mood, and health-related quality of life. We found low evidence that both duloxetine and milnacipran were superior to pregabalin on improvement in depressed mood, whereas pregabalin was superior to milnacipran on improvement in sleep disturbance. Amitriptyline was similar to duloxetine, milnacipran, and pregabalin on outcomes of pain and fatigue, with insufficient data on the other outcomes. Although there were some significant differences between duloxetine, milnacipran, and pregabalin in specific adverse events, they did not produce any differences in overall withdrawals, overall adverse events, and withdrawals due to adverse events http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21678632 Abstract Disordered sleep is such a prominent symptom in fibromyalgia that the American College of Rheumatology included symptoms such as waking unrefreshed, fatigue, tiredness, and insomnia in the 2010 diagnostic criteria for fibromyalgia. Even though sleep recording is not part of the routine evaluation, polysomnography may disclose primary sleep disorders in patients with fibromyalgia, including obstructive sleep apnea and restless leg syndrome. In addition, genetic background and environmental susceptibility link fibromyalgia and further sleep disorders. Among nonpharmacological treatment proposed for sleep disturbance in fibromyalgia, positive results have been obtained with sleep hygiene and cognitive-behavioral therapy. The effect of exercise is contradictory, but overweight or obese patients with fibromyalgia should be encouraged to lose weight. Regarding the approved antidepressants, amitriptyline proved to be superior to duloxetine and milnacipran for sleep disturbances. New perspectives remain on the narcolepsy drug sodium oxybate, which recently was approved for sleep management in fibromyalgia. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21594765 Fibro isnt just one single thing, as all these studies show. Its pain, its sleep disturbances, its the inability to heal... its many things. Labling it all in the "brain" is discounting many things, including the actual pain of the patient. Not a single study listed above, and others from the same site, did not include sleep as a problem. In fact, each went out of its way to state the ability of the meds to actually help with sleep deprivation. There is a reason for that. Sleep dysfunction is considered an integral feature of fibromyalgia syndrome. Seventy percent of patients with fibromyalgia recognize a connection with poor sleep and an increased pain, along with feeling unrefreshed, fatigued, and emotionally distressed. Several studies have linked abnormal sleep with these symptoms. Some authors describe the altered sleep physiology and somatic symptoms as a nonrestorative sleep syndrome. This sleep dysfunction is believed to be linked to the numerous metabolic disturbances associated with fibromyalgia, including abnormal levels of neurotransmitters (serotonin, substance P) and neuroendocrine and immune substances (growth hormone, cortisol, and interleukin-1). These authors propose that these metabolic imbalances are responsible for the increase in symptoms associated with this alpha-wave intrusion sleep disorder by impairing tissue repair and disturbing the immunoregulatory role of sleep. Studies show that the greatest amount of alpha-wave intrusions occur during the first few hours of sleep, decreasing throughout the night to normal levels by early morning. Some researchers note that this hypothesis correlates well with patients' frequent reporting that their best sleep is obtained in the early morning hours just prior to arising. Prognosis: Fibromyalgia is not a life-threatening, deforming, or progressive disease. The symptoms are variable. Without proper diagnosis and treatment, the patient may have the illusion of disease progression. This illusion does not occur as a result of disease, but as a result of sleep deprivation and physical deconditioning. Some investigators state that, with the proper treatment and a caring informed physician, patients with fibromyalgia should be able to improve their function and reduce their pain. http://www.fmscommunity.org/fibro.htm Its actually quite a comprehensive article. In conclusion, FM isnt just "one thing". But the one thing they all agree on is the sleep problems. During the deep stages of NREM sleep, the body repairs and regenerates tissues, builds bone and muscle, and appears to strengthen the immune system. As you get older, you sleep more lightly and get less deep sleep. Aging is also associated with shorter time spans of sleep, although studies show the amount of sleep needed doesn't appear to diminish with age. http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/excessive-sleepiness-10/sleep-101

DomKen -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/7/2011 9:53:11 PM)
And the study I cited using milnacipran was specifically because the drug is not reported to affect sleep except through symptom reduction. Consider this carefully, 2% of americans are reported to fit the FM diagnosis. That makes FM one of the most widespread conditions out there. If there was even a hint of something physical going on outside the brain the drug companies would be all over it. Instead they are marketing SNRI's and an anticonvulsant (drugs whose primary action is in the brain). I follow this because my aunt is daignosed and has tried a lot of stuff. The SNRI's, given to her without her knowledge of what specifically it was, allowed her to resume her normal life. That was after the FM woo crowd on the internet had convinced her the mere mention of pyschosomatic meant her doctor didn't believe her and other nonsense. Prior to that she was taking cough syrip (guaifenesin) recommended by a complete hack which was doing nothing. She was so convinced by the woo flingers that it was physical that she flat refused the SNRI's becuase they were "anti depressants" (an attitude I've seen here). On that matter if FM was related to phosphorus as these hacks claim I, and all other people in kidney failure, would suffer from FM as we have routinely very high phosphorus levels as well as high PTH levels. The facts are that if there is a cause outside the CNS it is so subtle as to have escaped better than 20 years of medical researchers looking for it. While there is plenty of research showing drugs that effect the brain and CNS do treat the symptoms.

Termyn8or -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/7/2011 10:28:16 PM)
Pain caused by injury can be discarded by some. How does this relate ? T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/7/2011 10:44:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen And the study I cited using milnacipran was specifically because the drug is not reported to affect sleep except through symptom reduction. Consider this carefully, 2% of americans are reported to fit the FM diagnosis. That makes FM one of the most widespread conditions out there. If there was even a hint of something physical going on outside the brain the drug companies would be all over it. Instead they are marketing SNRI's and an anticonvulsant (drugs whose primary action is in the brain). I follow this because my aunt is daignosed and has tried a lot of stuff. The SNRI's, given to her without her knowledge of what specifically it was, allowed her to resume her normal life. That was after the FM woo crowd on the internet had convinced her the mere mention of pyschosomatic meant her doctor didn't believe her and other nonsense. Prior to that she was taking cough syrip (guaifenesin) recommended by a complete hack which was doing nothing. She was so convinced by the woo flingers that it was physical that she flat refused the SNRI's becuase they were "anti depressants" (an attitude I've seen here). On that matter if FM was related to phosphorus as these hacks claim I, and all other people in kidney failure, would suffer from FM as we have routinely very high phosphorus levels as well as high PTH levels. The facts are that if there is a cause outside the CNS it is so subtle as to have escaped better than 20 years of medical researchers looking for it. While there is plenty of research showing drugs that effect the brain and CNS do treat the symptoms. If you will recheck, the drug in your report is the same one in mine. Did you miss the 70%? Sleep dysfunction is considered an integral feature of fibromyalgia syndrome. Seventy percent of patients with fibromyalgia recognize a connection with poor sleep and an increased pain, along with feeling unrefreshed, fatigued, and emotionally distressed. Several studies have linked abnormal sleep with these symptoms. Could it be that your aunt doesnt fall into that 70%? 6 million people (2%) are affected by FM. Mental Illness strikes 26% Arthritis is the most common cause of disability, with nearly 19 million Americans reporting activity limitations 9 million people are cancer survivors with various side effects from treatment 70 - 80% of the population suffers from at least one chronic illness. FM isnt common. On that matter if FM was related to phosphorus as these hacks claim I, and all other people in kidney failure, would suffer from FM as we have routinely very high phosphorus levels as well as high PTH levels. Hacks? Who mentioned phosphorus, other than you? I even went back to the sources and didnt see a mention of phosphorus

DomKen -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/8/2011 9:39:08 AM)
From your own study Three medications available in the United States are labeled for treatment of fibromyalgia-related symptoms: the serotonin- and norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitors duloxetine and milnacipran and the α(2)-δ ligand pregabalin. Evidence from clinical trials indicates that all three drugs can have a significant impact on fibromyalgia-related pain; duloxetine and pregabalin have been demonstrated to reduce sleep disturbances and improve quality of life (the former also has been shown to improve mood), while milnacipran can offer significant benefits in reducing fatigue. Milnacipran has not been shown to improve sleep except throguh symptom relief.

tammystarm -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/8/2011 9:44:32 AM)
yep and they didnt work for me. just saying.... ~somebody pour me a drink and hand me my nebutol!~ Divine Secrets of the YAYA Sisterhood

DomKen -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/8/2011 1:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm yep and they didnt work for me. just saying.... ~somebody pour me a drink and hand me my nebutol!~ Divine Secrets of the YAYA Sisterhood Have you tried all dosages of all three drugs shown to work on FM?

tazzygirl -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/8/2011 4:04:03 PM)
Did you miss the 70%? Sleep dysfunction is considered an integral feature of fibromyalgia syndrome. Seventy percent of patients with fibromyalgia recognize a connection with poor sleep and an increased pain, along with feeling unrefreshed, fatigued, and emotionally distressed. Several studies have linked abnormal sleep with these symptoms. Could it be that your aunt doesnt fall into that 70%? And I asked who was talking about phosphorus.

Phoenixpower -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/8/2011 4:15:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Did you miss the 70%? Sleep dysfunction is considered an integral feature of fibromyalgia syndrome. Seventy percent of patients with fibromyalgia recognize a connection with poor sleep and an increased pain, along with feeling unrefreshed, fatigued, and emotionally distressed. Several studies have linked abnormal sleep with these symptoms. Could it be that your aunt doesnt fall into that 70%? And I asked who was talking about phosphorus. I can second that view of the 70%... my symptoms worsened after I had to work 7 days a week to be able to cover my costs in london (4 hours sleep from monday to friday and 6 hours sleep during weekends...with my fucking agency keeping trying to increase my hours at the weekend with me regularly giving them back their shit attempts as I needed my 6 hours on those days). Afterwards soon later uni started with then having even less sleep and then it started BIG TIME!!! So yep, we (like everyone else, too) need our space of resting....quite frankly we aren't maschines....[8\|]

BBWDOM4MARRIAGE -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/14/2011 12:55:54 PM)
Pardon me for being blunt, but, I think it's all a lot of cock twaddle written by someone who wanted to get paid and patted on the back for coming up with a theory that people would believe. And, if the people who have Fibromyalgia get offended? Well, they are all overly-sensitive dinks, as the theory proves, right? I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. what it is, is a nice tent under which to cluster a lot of symptoms, by description, so that the insurance companies and doctors will not have to be bothered paying for, or looking for, cures for any of the troubles. These symptoms could stem from a lot of reasons, all of which fall under emotional or physical stress, and, which could certainly lead people to believe that getting spankings or being dumped by your boyfriend might cause Fibromyalgia in the unfortunate who have those sort of nerve endings. HOWEVER .. Not all emotional or physical stressors are the same, and, many of the physical ones are actual long term infection and disease, long term allergies, which are untreated. Those are the primary causes of Fibromyalgia. When it comes to emotional stressors, the most common causes are extreme long term childhood abuse, followed by extreme long term adulthood abuse. Things that cause severe PTSD or death from infections, in those who remain alive long enough, can cause Fibromyalgia. It has nothing to do with low pain tolerance. In fact, it is quite the opposite. I had my pain levels tested, as a child, as part of a thing where they went from school to school doing demonstrations. Mine tested so high, they said there was no way anyone could live through that much pain, much less be out walking around, playing, etc., so they assumed the machine was broke - even though it worked for everyone else, including the boy with the broken leg, who was in significantly less pain than me - and, so, they took it away to fix it. Later they said, they found nothing wrong with it, and, wouldn't let me near the machine, again. lol People with Fibromyalgia don't all have the same pain threshold, but, they must necessarily already possess, or, grow, higher pain thresholds than other people do (except maybe people with severe arthritis, people with spina bifeda, and, the like), because, if they do not, they do not survive. So, no, beating someone, even harshly, in play, is not going to cause Fibromyalgia, unless they are so abnormally emotionally sensitive that you shouldn't be playing with them in the first place. However, if you are beating someone harshly, and, they are laughing at you, or, ignoring you, because, you just don't have any sting to your swing, it's an indication that they might already have it.

Lockit -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/14/2011 1:09:58 PM)
Wow... just wow...

DomKen -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/14/2011 3:04:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBWDOM4MARRIAGE Not all emotional or physical stressors are the same, and, many of the physical ones are actual long term infection and disease, long term allergies, which are untreated. Those are the primary causes of Fibromyalgia. Got even a little bit of evidence to back that up?

BBWDOM4MARRIAGE -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/15/2011 12:19:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Got even a little bit of evidence to back that up? If this was a court of law, I surely would, yes. As it is, I put in over two decades of research, as someone very interested due to suffering from Fibromyalgia, and, I have neither the time nor energy to devote to doing your research for you. There is a lot of information on the web, some of it is even true. Go find it!! But, if you are going to discount the actual experience and knowledge of people who have Fibromyalgia, you are not going to get anywhere! The primary point that was being asked about is, will pain play cause Fibromyalgia, and, the main point to my answer is that no, it will not. I don't need evidence to make that statement, as I AM THE EVIDENCE, in this case. You want proof of that? Go screw yourself. You have no reason, or right, to act as if I've been caught lying, and, I do not know you well enough to direct you to the doctor(s) who diagnosed me.

DomKen -> RE: Over stimulation with pain, causes Fibro? (7/15/2011 2:08:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBWDOM4MARRIAGE quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Got even a little bit of evidence to back that up? If this was a court of law, I surely would, yes. As it is, I put in over two decades of research, as someone very interested due to suffering from Fibromyalgia, and, I have neither the time nor energy to devote to doing your research for you. There is a lot of information on the web, some of it is even true. Go find it!! But, if you are going to discount the actual experience and knowledge of people who have Fibromyalgia, you are not going to get anywhere! The primary point that was being asked about is, will pain play cause Fibromyalgia, and, the main point to my answer is that no, it will not. I don't need evidence to make that statement, as I AM THE EVIDENCE, in this case. You want proof of that? Go screw yourself. You have no reason, or right, to act as if I've been caught lying, and, I do not know you well enough to direct you to the doctor(s) who diagnosed me. You made a claim that cannot be supported by any of the extant research on FM. So it was possible you had bought into one or another woo flinger or you were simply making stuff up to make yourself feel better. I figured if you were taken in by a fruad artist you'd post the details so I could post a rebuttal to protect people who otherwise might believe your nonsense. Since you instead claimed knowledge of research that does not exist I can now simply write you off. I'll assume anyone with a functioning brain can discern that your angry diatribe is your admission that your claims are simply made up.

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