RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week

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Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 12:33:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse My point is that most teachers get a paycheck year round........hense the work would not be for free. A teacher's pay is based upon an annual salary, not an hourly wage. Therefor they are not working for free. I get a paycheck year round, because I opted into the 12 month pay option. When I used to work summer school, I received a seperate paycheck for doing so. Until most public school systems start to go year round, if you teach summer school it is additional income and has nothing to do with the regular school year calendar. Most school systems have 10 month employees, 11 month employees and 12 month employees, you can opt to be paid year round regardless which category you fall into. In my school district, and all the others that I know of, all teachers are 10 month employees. Summer school is NOT included! I admire anyone that is willing to work for free, even if it is only for a short summer program. This is copied and pasted from the article in the NY Times, "In the small town of Brandon, S.D., near Sioux Falls, some 65 teachers and principals plan to work without pay this summer to keep alive a summer school program that would have otherwise been canceled because of cuts in state aid. " Here is the link to the article in the NY Times Budget Cuts Shorten School Week in some Districts

LaTigresse -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 12:39:39 PM)
So basically.........some teachers in some areas have been getting a bonus by teaching summer school when they've already received an 'annual' salary. Forgive me if I don't feel bad for them. Even the worst teaching salaries in the country, per my research of a moment ago, are better than many people's. Granted, I wouldn't want the job and feel good teachers are priceless. But I am still not going to feel bad for them, only getting their 'annual' salary and being asked to do a few more weeks of work rather than lounge about at the pool whilst I am working.

Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 12:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse So basically.........some teachers in some areas have been getting a bonus by teaching summer school when they've already received an 'annual' salary. Forgive me if I don't feel bad for them. Even the worst teaching salaries in the country, per my research of a moment ago, are better than many people's. Granted, I wouldn't want the job and feel good teachers are priceless. But I am still not going to feel bad for them, only getting their 'annual' salary and being asked to do a few more weeks of work rather than lounge about at the pool whilst I am working. Oh I agree, I don't feel sorry for them, but many people would not do it, if they did not have to. That, I can guarantee you! Teachers have always had the "summers off" in most areas for at least the past 75-100 years or so. We are paid an annual salary for the number of days we work in the "school calendar year", which is normally about 10 months. Don't all the teachers you know that work in public schools have a long summer break, unless they want to work? I don't want to de-rail my own thread, but this OP doesn't have anything to do with teachers salaries, and everything to do with how budget cuts are seriously going to effect many school districts that have students that are poor and disadvantaged. I hate to see budgets and programs cut at a time when many students need them the most. Can't pretend Illinois budget cuts won't hurt the needy

Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 1:49:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou I don't know, I have mixed feelings on education in the US, at least the education I've been exposed to. First, about half the teachers I had in junior high, high school and college, didn't do anything to deserve more respect than a janitor. I had a drunk US history teacher, that literally just showed slides, and movies, and at the end of the class assigned reading material. He never extrapolated, never really taught, literally I could have skipped the class read the book and received an equivalent education, others weren't as bad, but still you could tell, this was simply a job. On the other hand, I've had a few good teachers, that were interested, and did actually try to "explain", and add value outside the book. So, hrmmm, imo, the system needs a better way of removing the non-teaching teachers, or else it does not matter how much money is dumped on the problem. Also, the administrators get paid far more than the teachers, in some areas they get paid far far more. I don't really see why. Also, at least a big thing around here that has me irked, is we built this cathedral they call a school, it's massive, super pretty, and expensive as all hell. I don't really see why a high school needs to be nicer than a business in town. Schools aren't churches, they are supposed to be a functional thing. So, if the schools around here coming crying for cash, I won't support it. On top of it, isn't it about time for education to evolve anyway, really there is no reason to shuffle all the kids to school everyday anymore. The internet, can easily replace at least a couple days a week, especially for course like US history, World History, Spanish, Sociology, as in classes that are mostly just rote memory. I'd just assign prerecorded classes to watch, then the kids come in three days a week and get tested, ask any questions they might have, and send them on their merry way. For courses like math, biology, physics, etc... Well a teacher is more useful, IMO, but still some of that could be done from videos explaining basic concepts, then coming in for question answer time. Overall, I don't think the solution to education is more of the same, I'd prefer to watch videos of an excellent teacher, or be able to select any number of videos explaining a concept from a number of teachers on the web that I could watch over, or pause, or rewind, or watch a different explanation than be stuck with the current gamble of possibly getting a good teacher or bad, and just be shit out of luck if I happened to get a bad one. Sure, you can still have a school, but is it really even necessary anymore for them to go over everything? I'd think a better use of teachers would be answering questions after the students already watched the videos and read the book. Just maybe? It'd be cheaper though, and for someone like me it would have been vastly better in some classes, and I think it would be better for almost everyone. For example, a Geology class, on the website would have 20 teachers record their method of teaching about plate tectonics or whatever. If the kid doesn't get how one teacher is explaining it, no big deal he can watch it again or watch another one, if he still doesn't get it, well, he still goes to a physical school a few days a week, and he can ask there, or ask a live geology teacher to help online. Seems far superior to me. DOWN WITH THE SCHOOLS.....[:D] Up with the internet. DOWN WITH THE SCHOOLS, UP WITH THE INTERNET. Here is what I think about this post. [sm=abducted.gif] Have fun in the Outer Limits, bye bye!

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:06:00 PM)
fast reply I am paid salary, just like teachers are. Since becoming a manager, I also get the teachers retirement. I pay dearly out of each paycheck for retirement and for my insurance, but I am glad as hell I have them, so that doesn't bother me much. We have had furlough days, we have had salary freezes. Everyone I know is just glad to have a job that they love, but I digress. Employees are salaried, but let me try to explain it so folks can get over this "they are paid to sit on their ass" thing that seems to be so wrongly believed. There are 182 day employees, 191 day employees, 220 day employees, and 240 day employees. There may be more, but that is the ones I am positive about. I am a 191 day employee. Let us say that my salary is $100 per day. $100 x 191=$19,100.00, which is my yearly salary. I am paid bi-weekly, so each check is $19,000 divided by 26, which is $730.77. These payments are paid out over the entire year, but I only work and am only paid for the 191 days that I work. If I am out, and I have no sick time or personal time, my salary for that day is taken out of the check, and listed as leave without pay. No one is paid for days they do not work, unless they are year round employees and accrue vacation time, just like any other job would. Teachers are also 191 day employees. Lets say they make $35,000 yearly salaried, which is $183.25 per day, or $24.43 an hour. They are in the same boat I am. Miss work and have no sick time, you are docked. Yes, teachers are paid year round, as I am. We are not paid for any days that we do not work. Think what you want about how much they make, I happen to think it is not enough, but do not think that they do not deserve more pay if they work more days. Just as I get paid more if I do some work for food services in the summertime, teachers get paid if they work summer school, and they damn well deserve every penny. I won't even go in to the teachers at my school who work in the summer for free, doing science camps and kindergarten camps, because they love the job and they love the kids and they love teaching. Rant over.

Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:17:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub fast reply I am paid salary, just like teachers are. Since becoming a manager, I also get the teachers retirement. I pay dearly out of each paycheck for retirement and for my insurance, but I am glad as hell I have them, so that doesn't bother me much. We have had furlough days, we have had salary freezes. Everyone I know is just glad to have a job that they love, but I digress. Employees are salaried, but let me try to explain it so folks can get over this "they are paid to sit on their ass" thing that seems to be so wrongly believed. There are 182 day employees, 191 day employees, 220 day employees, and 24 day employees. There may be more, but that is the ones I am positive about. I am a 191 day employee. Let us say that my salary is $100 per day. $100 x 191=$19,100.00, which is my yearly salary. I am paid bi-weekly, so each check is $19,000 divided by 26, which is $730.77. These payments are paid out over the entire year, but I only work and am only paid for the 191 days that I work. If I am out, and I have no sick time or personal time, my salary for that day is taken out of the check, and listed as leave without pay. No one is paid for days they do not work, unless they are year round employees and accrue vacation time, just like any other job would. Teachers are also 191 day employees. Lets say they make $35,000 yearly salaried, which is $183.25 per day, or $24.43 an hour. They are in the same boat I am. Miss work and have no sick time, you are docked. Yes, teachers are paid year round, as I am. We are not paid for any days that we do not work. Think what you want about how much they make, I happen to think it is not enough, but do not think that they do not deserve more pay if they work more days. Just as I get paid more if I do some work for food services in the summertime, teachers get paid if they work summer school, and they damn well deserve every penny. I won't even go in to the teachers at my school who work in the summer for free, doing science camps and kindergarten camps, because they love the job and they love the kids and they love teaching. Rant over. What a wonderful post. I avoid discussions over what most people are paid, unless they are in a 3rd world country, because it is usually petty and a waste of time. I would add that when I go back, I will work typically 10-12 hours a day, and when I leave often after a 10-12 hour work day, there are many teachers in the building after 8 or 9p.m. I am not even going to mention the amount of work I often do on the weekends. [;)] But, I agree many people could not deal with or handle what many educators must endure. [sm=applause.gif] Back on topic, please: What about these serious budget cuts that are going to effect the programs, conditions, and the quality of education that many student's will get in a public school? Especially, students that are poor and often disadvantaged to begin with? Remember physical education class? What I see going on in most school's does not even resemble the type of gym/physical education classes that I attended. It is no wonder so many of the students these days are seriously over-weight, out of shape or obese. They are cutting most if not all after school sports programs in many school districts. How sad is that?

LaTigresse -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:28:58 PM)
Wellllllllll, beyond the phrase 'annual salary', which seems to be up for debate... How about we put a big ass tax on on the things that make the kids asses bigger. Like potato chips, McDonalds fries, televisions, gaming systems, computers, etc........to pay for some of the things that actually benefit the kids! Or, we do a really smart thing and begin to re-evaluate our education system and figure out why it is grossly failing our kids.

mnottertail -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:30:10 PM)
And womens asses bigger, toilet paper....bon bons.....spandex leopard skin peddle pushers..........

LaTigresse -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:30:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And womens asses bigger, toilet paper....bon bons.....spandex leopard skin peddle pushers.......... There should be a 300% tax on those things.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:35:21 PM)
yeah, sorry to hijack your thread. I figured the hourly wage at their scheduled 7.5 hours. I do not know any teacher who leaves on time. It just irks me to see folks who think they get something for nothing. As for budget cuts, we are getting more every year. They have discussed the 4 day week, but I can not see it happening here. I do expect to go several more years with, hopefully, a 1.5% raise. When I get the urge to whine, I just remind me that I love my job and have not had a bad day at work in 5 years. I see things daily that make no sense to me. Like, why must everything be on a bid, where we are locked in to paying Acme $2.89 a piece for something I can get on sale at Kroger for $1.99. It all boils down to accountability, I think, to assure Mr Jones doesn't give all the contracts to his brother or such, but there has got to be a better way. They have started culling at the top, doing away with admin that is not needed, making sure to keep as many as possible who are needed for the students. Atlanta City Public Schools, which is near me, has just had a huge cheating scandal about CRCT testing, that went from the top to the bottom. Google it, if you haven't heard about it. It is one muckin fess, and I am watching to see how many heads roll on this. edit to change Fulton County to Atlanta City. And to add, they just said on the news that teachers and admin who were proven to change tests will not be fired automatically, it will be a case by case basis. Fucking morons.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:37:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Wellllllllll, beyond the phrase 'annual salary', which seems to be up for debate... How about we put a big ass tax on on the things that make the kids asses bigger. Like potato chips, McDonalds fries, televisions, gaming systems, computers, etc........to pay for some of the things that actually benefit the kids! Or, we do a really smart thing and begin to re-evaluate our education system and figure out why it is grossly failing our kids. I believe that the educational system is failing because parents are failing. At least in the area I work, 75% of the parents I come in contact with have no business having children, but that's another thread.

Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:38:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Wellllllllll, beyond the phrase 'annual salary', which seems to be up for debate... How about we put a big ass tax on on the things that make the kids asses bigger. Like potato chips, McDonalds fries, televisions, gaming systems, computers, etc........to pay for some of the things that actually benefit the kids! Or, we do a really smart thing and begin to re-evaluate our education system and figure out why it is grossly failing our kids. LaT, let me shake your hand. In Middle School I HATED a lot of what I had to do in physical education/gym class, but guess what? I changed into the funny looking blue and white one piece outfit and participated in everything, because I had no choice! Lets see: Volleyball, dodge ball, basketball, baseball, parallel bars and balance beam, calisthenics, floor exercises, running around the building, etc. and we worked hard!!! In many school districts, many of the students appear to often do next to nothing or very little in physical education, and it appears they have very limited equipment to work with! The physical education teacher told me at my school, the students get a C if they just change their clothes and show up, since many don't even want to do that!! I can't think of many school districts that make physical education a priority, no child left behind! Many of the behinds are getting very, very, big at a young age.

LaTigresse -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:39:32 PM)
I think that is a facet of it certainly. But certainly a facet that is beyond our control. Which then leads to the question, why do some schools with very little money, and certainly no better crop of parents do well, when other schools with more money do so poorly? I am out of the education loop. My kids have kids. But what I saw when I had them.......a lot of finger pointing at others, with no admitting that we (from any side of the issue) were part of the bigger problem. Yes, parents are to blame, hugely. But if we cannot change the parents, there has to be other ways and it's obvious that some schools have figured it out. And I know how those parents think....... many of them work 40 or more hours a week. They feel, right or wrong, that the teachers are being paid to teach. They haven't the time or energy to do what they feel is the school's job. Many of them are not equipped to even begin to supplement the teaching. I admit, I wasn't able to help my kids with much of the massive amounts of home work they got in high school. It was either never taught in the school I went to, or had been so long ago I had forgotten most of it.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:43:29 PM)
The answer to that would be the golden ticket. The differences I see are the teachers. The ones who stay late and tutor at risk students, who go and buy shoes for the kid who is wearing sandals or holey shoes in winter. If you give a child who has never had a thing just a glimmer of hope, just something to show that you care, not matter the hell they come from, they will, most times, amaze you with how hard they can and will work.

LaTigresse -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 2:49:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub The answer to that would be the golden ticket. The differences I see are the teachers. The ones who stay late and tutor at risk students, who go and buy shoes for the kid who is wearing sandals or holey shoes in winter. If you give a child who has never had a thing just a glimmer of hope, just something to show that you care, not matter the hell they come from, they will, most times, amaze you with how hard they can and will work. The part I bolded is what saved my kids. Superiour teachers. So how do our school systems weed out those that should not be teaching, and yes we have ALL seen them, and attract those that should be? I am not going to get into a whole union line of bs because it's not the main topic. But I do feel that, in many cases, this is an example of unions sometimes protecting 'bad employees'. When it seems to me, with better self policing, the teachers could become advocates for excellence rather than being so worried that their members are going to be persecuted. Pro-active rather than re-active.

Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 3:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Wellllllllll, beyond the phrase 'annual salary', which seems to be up for debate... How about we put a big ass tax on on the things that make the kids asses bigger. Like potato chips, McDonalds fries, televisions, gaming systems, computers, etc........to pay for some of the things that actually benefit the kids! Or, we do a really smart thing and begin to re-evaluate our education system and figure out why it is grossly failing our kids. I believe that the educational system is failing because parents are failing. At least in the area I work, 75% of the parents I come in contact with have no business having children, but that's another thread. [sm=applause.gif] I would say that only 50% of the parents that I see or come in contact with, in my school district have no business having children. This does include the parents that curse out and threaten the Principal and Vice-Principal and the police need to be contacted. But, that is another topic, and this topic is: How budget cuts are going to affect the poor and disadvanaged children disproportionately. Are the poor and disadvantaged students in your area going to be greatly affected? Many people don't even know the answer! All parents and people that care about the state of public education, should at least google what is going on in their local school districts as far as budget cuts, and see for themselves who will be affected, how they will be affected, and what programs and services will be cut.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 3:10:38 PM)
If I understand the budget correctly, the county waits for the state to tell them how much money they are going to give. The state waits for the feds to tell them how much money they are going to give. They literally tell us a few days before school starts if we are going to get a raise or not. They have added and taken furlough days back in the same year, due to more funds becoming available unexpectedly. So, who do you go to about the cuts? Feds? State? County? Hellifiknow. Add to that the taxes paid by homeowners, which are going down yearly, as property values decline and foreclosures go up, ya got a muckin fess. If I had the answer, I would be rich I tell ya!!!

kat321 -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 6:03:29 PM)
Cuts to school days have been going on for a number of years now- as have other cuts that we don't often hear about. Once gas prices spiked, many systems began to widen their radius for students to receive transportation to school. In rural areas this has been a disaster. Remember the old adage about trudging so many miles uphill (albeit in this case only in one direction) in the snow? It happens regularly in some areas. How many miles is it OK to ask a kindergarten student to walk in January in Montana? Before freaking out about the four day week, know that it often lengthens the school day on the days students do attend; thus the number of hours kids are the the classroom doesn't change, nor do the contracted hours of the teachers. The costs of heating/cooling the building along with other overhead is what is saved, along with an extra day of transportation. I cannot guarantee this is what will happen in the districts going to 4-day weeks, but that is the general rule of thumb. I also cannot say that the longer day works for students- especially younger students with shorter attention spans. Food for thought about the budget process and how it impacts achievement: Generally, school district budgets are figured out in early July. This puts a stress on first-year teachers who more often than not don't know if they will have a job until August. Some positions are available earlier (usually based on retirements,) but these numbers are fairly small. Hiring occurs late, and in an economy where jobs are uncertain, if something comes along earlier outside of the teaching field, some of our best neophytes take assured employment over waiting. Over the years I have watched a large number of new teachers hired less than a week before the school year begins. I mention this because having one week to prepare for a classrooms of roughly 22 young students or up to 40 older students does not bode particularly well for the upcoming academic year. For any teacher curriculum planning of any sort takes time; really good curriculum planning takes months. Now, look at what this does. The largest number of first year teachers are hired into schools that are already failing to meet annual yearly progress (state) goals. Also, the highest turnover is seen in these schools, so the cycle of new teachers who are just 'getting their feet on the ground' is continuous in these schools and as a result, students continue suffer and fall further behind. The budget planning structure is already set up to make improvement in some of the worst schools difficult- and charters are no better. Not only do they wait on state funding, they have to wait on their additional funding. While many mention charters as a panacea, the charters that have the best results not only get state money, but also rely on grants from various organizations- they cost more. This additional funding that comes from granting agencies is not consistent. On a year-to-year basis, most charters don't know if they will have the money to continue staffing levels or their unique programming. Structural changes to funding, both mechanisms and timing need to be addressed along with other issues.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 6:25:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Here is what I think about this post. [sm=abducted.gif] Have fun in the Outer Limits, bye bye! LOL. What exactly is so crazy, there are a couple school districts experimenting with this. The beginning of the concept is http://www.khanacademy.org/. Bill Gates seems to like it. Of course it's not developed fully, but the future is coming, it's a superior method. Anyway, go educate yourself. You can start at www.khanacademy.org

Marini -> RE: Budget Cuts/ Thousands of School districts going to 4 day school week (7/7/2011 6:42:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Here is what I think about this post. [sm=abducted.gif] Have fun in the Outer Limits, bye bye! LOL. What exactly is so crazy, there are a couple school districts experimenting with this. The beginning of the concept is http://www.khanacademy.org/. Bill Gates seems to like it. Of course it's not developed fully, but the future is coming, it's a superior method. Anyway, go educate yourself. You can start at www.khanacademy.org That may be the wave of the distant future, I hope and pray I am not only retired but gone to glory when/if the public schools are taken over by robots. I will not click the links, I am not interested, thank you. If you want to start a thread on that topic, feel free! This topic is about budget cuts, and how it will be effecting thousands of school districts.

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