RE: Should the US have a VAT tax?

RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Should the US have a VAT tax?

Yes

33% (14)

64% (27)

Unsure

2% (1)

Total Votes : 42

(last vote on : 9/25/2011 5:48:07 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 9:55:20 AM)
quote: tax & waste As an alternative to borrow and waste....

Icarys -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:04:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: tax & waste As an alternative to borrow and waste.... Tax, waste, borrow sounds better.

Politesub53 -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:12:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan have a VAT only if you want high unemployment like Europe. If you want Europe, gee, move there. NOT in the USA. All of this is academic, because there will be big changes after the 2012 elections. VAT is just a sales tax. I thought most States already had that ? As for 2012, dont hold your breath waiting for power. You would have to be nuts for voting for Palin. Oh wait...I forgot who I was replying to.

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:13:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy If you support a VAT, under what guidelines? Hell to the no. When our country learns to be fiscally responsible with what they already appropriate from their citizens, there wouldn't be a need for any additional taxes. And I also support 10% across the board. Why do 'we' insist on keeping it complicated? I effing hate doing my taxes even more than I hate paying them...can you imagine what adding a VAT would do to further complicate the dreaded tax preparation every year?

Icarys -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:14:43 AM)
quote: Cool ... hey ... when you go to Alaska, would you please get me Fred Heinz's autograph? He said some Crrrrazy Shit about the HAARP Project on that Jesse Ventura show conspiracy show, I've included his picture in case his mailbox isn't standing (his place looks a little beat). Anyway something like "keep on fighting the good fight Skipper" or "Skipper, you one bad muddah fuckah" would be my preferred inscriptions... Anyway, thanks in advance. I know, I know, everyone that beats on the backside of government is a conspiracy nut of some sort but I'd rather be doing that than kneeling with with my lips planted on it's ass-cheek and asking for more. Suck Suck...Slurp that asshole Skippy. It's good to ya aint it. BTW Fred says Fuck you, you fat fuck..He's gonna shove HAARP up your ass if he ever sees you in his neck of the woods.. (Don't kill the messenger..Just repeating what he said.)

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:19:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan have a VAT only if you want high unemployment like Europe. If you want Europe, gee, move there. NOT in the USA. All of this is academic, because there will be big changes after the 2012 elections. Be nice if some of you "numbers" people produced numbers. Take a look---much of Europe is comparable or better than our current rate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:22:13 AM)
quote: can you imagine what adding a VAT would do to further complicate the dreaded tax preparation every year? It would add nothing at all. It's a tax at the production level. It's also an "across the board" tax, but not on income. Clearly, from this and other comments in this thread, most people posting have no idea what a VAT is.

tj444 -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:37:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: tax & waste As an alternative to borrow and waste.... ok well to me, tax & borrow are the same since in the end its gonna be taxpayers that pay (one way or the other)... I also think the borrow and waste ship has sailed, given the debt already... [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif] http://www.usdebtclock.org/

tj444 -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 10:53:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: can you imagine what adding a VAT would do to further complicate the dreaded tax preparation every year? It would add nothing at all. It's a tax at the production level. It's also an "across the board" tax, but not on income. Clearly, from this and other comments in this thread, most people posting have no idea what a VAT is. Canada used to have a (hidden) tax on the production level... you know what happened? it was eventually converted into the dreaded GST which is a (sales) tax on almost everything on the retail value... .. imo, that will eventually be the future too in the US... cuz the govt wont be able to help itself from sucking/wasting more and more and more.

pahunkboy -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:01:43 AM)
MM, we voted and we do not want it.

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:38:28 AM)
quote: we voted and we do not want it I know. You prefer debt.

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:44:29 AM)
quote: ok well to me, tax & borrow are the same since in the end its gonna be taxpayers that pay (one way or the other)... I also think the borrow and waste ship has sailed, given the debt already... The difference is....with the borrowing we have the debt.

tj444 -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:50:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ok well to me, tax & borrow are the same since in the end its gonna be taxpayers that pay (one way or the other)... I also think the borrow and waste ship has sailed, given the debt already... The difference is....with the borrowing we have the debt. and the debt has been there for a very, very long time... its nothing new. They just keep adding more tax (to pay the increased interest on more debt) to increase the borrowing which increases the debt... when what they need to do is cut waste, cut favors to buddies and banks, etc, and actually act in the best interests of the country and make it solvent once again.

joether -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:54:30 AM)
Comparing the United States to another country on its defination(s) of taxes is like comparing Vulcan Science Officers to Wookie Jedi Masters. The issues in another country on an economic, poltical and/or historical level will just be very different in scope and scale to The States. The citizens in one country will think and behave in different ways to that of another. So trying to say "What works in one country will work in another" isn't always true. An just 'walking' in with that mentality will be met with stiff opposition. That said, I dont really care how VAT has worked in another country. Something like this is even more suspected, when it comes from: 1) pahunk.....who normally gives us stuff from the likes of 'prison planet' and generally doesnt check his facts. 2) a person that is pro-conservative, wanting to add taxes? That's like a liberal suggesting we drop spending by a trillion dollars From what I read on wikipedia and other sources on VAT, I keep coming to the conclusion that such a thing hammers the poor while the rich pay considerably less. The problem is with a VAT, the end user gets 'socked' for much more charges than under the sales and income tax currently in place in the USA. For example, if someone were to sell a car under a VAT system, they (the manufacturer) have to pay for *ALL* parts and services that exist outside of their company. That means the auto company has to pay taxes on all the lamps for cars, the metals used, the tires, and so on. Do you honestly believe the manufacture will 'just take one for the team'? Or simply add those taxes as an expense 'further down the stream'? I've dealt with A LOT of companies through the Small Business Admin (sba.gov), and something like this would ripe them apart something fierce! I explained why the 'Flat Tax' idea was bogus on the Herman Cain thread about a month ago. Not sure how many of you understood why that was a bad idea. But for the moment, I dont have time to REALLY explain why a VAT system does more damage to the USA than it helps. I know I'm asking for alot for you guys and gals to 'just trust me on this one', but this VAT system really doesnt help solve the problem(s) this nation faces on an economic level. If anything, it would simply make things a helluva a lot more complicated.

Icarys -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:57:02 AM)
quote: I know. You prefer debt. I prefer cutting the defense budget and pulling out of the numerous wars we are in.. I prefer cutting out the "wars" on every other thing they can make up to justify endless spending on. I prefer government reform to a point that it doesn't benefit the pockets and or companies to dump obscene amounts of money to buy their way. I prefer closing all of the loopholes that would keep the rich from paying their fair share. (You can say VAT will do some of that but most likely larger companies will find a way around paying that too). A lot we can do to work on the debt..I'm sure there's many more I haven't listed just as I'm sure none will be implemented.

Icarys -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:59:36 AM)
quote: when what they need to do is cut waste, cut favors to buddies and banks, etc, and actually act in the best interests of the country and make it solvent once again. Quoted for sense in evidently what is a not-so-common sense world.

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 11:59:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ok well to me, tax & borrow are the same since in the end its gonna be taxpayers that pay (one way or the other)... I also think the borrow and waste ship has sailed, given the debt already... The difference is....with the borrowing we have the debt. and the debt has been there for a very, very long time... its nothing new. They just keep adding more tax (to pay the increased interest on more debt) to increase the borrowing which increases the debt... when what they need to do is cut waste, cut favors to buddies and banks, etc, and actually act in the best interests of the country and make it solvent once again. Exactly wrong. The opposite is true. The massive debt is new, starting under Reagan, who quadrupled it, then after slowing with Clinton, taking off under Bush II and now Obama. But it's NOT from adding more taxes, but rather, from continually cutting taxes, which necessitates borrowing, which increases the debt. If your assertion were correct, we'd be paying it down. Your assertion that taxes cause interest is absurd. Did you expect that we'd cut our way to paying it down? You could eliminate ALL taxes, but that's STILL gonna leave the debt to be paid. How did you figure that would happen?

pahunkboy -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 12:00:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Comparing the United States to another country on its defination(s) of taxes is like comparing Vulcan Science Officers to Wookie Jedi Masters. The issues in another country on an economic, poltical and/or historical level will just be very different in scope and scale to The States. The citizens in one country will think and behave in different ways to that of another. So trying to say "What works in one country will work in another" isn't always true. An just 'walking' in with that mentality will be met with stiff opposition. That said, I dont really care how VAT has worked in another country. Something like this is even more suspected, when it comes from: 1) pahunk.....who normally gives us stuff from the likes of 'prison planet' and generally doesnt check his facts. 2) a person that is pro-conservative, wanting to add taxes? That's like a liberal suggesting we drop spending by a trillion dollars From what I read on wikipedia and other sources on VAT, I keep coming to the conclusion that such a thing hammers the poor while the rich pay considerably less. The problem is with a VAT, the end user gets 'socked' for much more charges than under the sales and income tax currently in place in the USA. For example, if someone were to sell a car under a VAT system, they (the manufacturer) have to pay for *ALL* parts and services that exist outside of their company. That means the auto company has to pay taxes on all the lamps for cars, the metals used, the tires, and so on. Do you honestly believe the manufacture will 'just take one for the team'? Or simply add those taxes as an expense 'further down the stream'? I've dealt with A LOT of companies through the Small Business Admin (sba.gov), and something like this would ripe them apart something fierce! I explained why the 'Flat Tax' idea was bogus on the Herman Cain thread about a month ago. Not sure how many of you understood why that was a bad idea. But for the moment, I dont have time to REALLY explain why a VAT system does more damage to the USA than it helps. I know I'm asking for alot for you guys and gals to 'just trust me on this one', but this VAT system really doesnt help solve the problem(s) this nation faces on an economic level. If anything, it would simply make things a helluva a lot more complicated. I wont tell you where I got the information from.

Musicmystery -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 12:01:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: I know. You prefer debt. I prefer cutting the defense budget and pulling out of the numerous wars we are in.. I prefer cutting out the "wars" on every other thing they can make up to justify endless spending on. I prefer government reform to a point that it doesn't benefit the pockets and or companies to dump obscene amounts of money to buy their way. I prefer closing all of the loopholes that would keep the rich from paying their fair share. (You can say VAT will do some of that but most likely larger companies will find a way around paying that too). A lot we can do to work on the debt..I'm sure there's many more I haven't listed just as I'm sure none will be implemented. Any independent analyst will tell you the same thing....to reduce the debt, we will need to do ALL of these things: cut defense spending adjust Social Security adjust Medicaid/Medicare cut spending *raise taxes Anyone pretending otherwise is pushing an agenda.

pahunkboy -> RE: Should the US have a VAT tax? (7/7/2011 12:02:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ok well to me, tax & borrow are the same since in the end its gonna be taxpayers that pay (one way or the other)... I also think the borrow and waste ship has sailed, given the debt already... The difference is....with the borrowing we have the debt. and the debt has been there for a very, very long time... its nothing new. They just keep adding more tax (to pay the increased interest on more debt) to increase the borrowing which increases the debt... when what they need to do is cut waste, cut favors to buddies and banks, etc, and actually act in the best interests of the country and make it solvent once again. Tell me about it. We are getting a passive property tax increase this month- since the school board- messed up. People are going to vote the board out. Well guess what? That horse is already out of the barn and the extra tax will be slapped on my house FOREVER, maybe longer. But hey- fuck- we can vote them out. Yeah gag me.

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