Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out

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Marini -> Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 8:42:53 PM)
I read this article a few hours ago and was saddened by it. [&o] Black Middle Class gains being wiped out Articles like the one I just posted, might explain why I often am "a little more concerned" about what is going on in America, than many other people. [;)] I am not posting this, because I expect anyone that is not Black to necessarily relate to this post, but to maybe gain some insight into the realities hitting Black Americans especially hard. Here are a few highlights of the article that saddened me: "Millions of Americans endured similar financial calamities in the recession. But for Goldring and many others in the black community, where unemployment is still rising, job loss has knocked them out of the middle class and back into poverty. Some even see a historic reversal of hard-won economic gains that took black people decades to achieve." and "Economists say the Great Recession lasted from 2007 to 2009. In 2004, the median net worth of white households was $134,280, compared with $13,450 for black households, according to an analysis of Federal Reserve data by the Economic Policy Institute. By 2009, the median net worth for white households had fallen 24 percent to $97,860; the median black net worth had fallen 83 percent to $2,170, according to the EPI." and "Since the end of the recession, the overall unemployment rate has fallen from 9.4 to 9.1 percent, while the black unemployment rate has risen from 14.7 to 16.2 percent, according to the Department of Labor." "Spike in unemployment Last April, black male unemployment hit the highest rate since the government began keeping track in 1972. Only 56.9 percent of black men over age 20 were working, compared with 68.1 percent of white men." and "History is going to say that the black middle class was decimated" over the past few years, Wiley says. "But we're not done writing history." "College-educated blacks fared worse than their white counterparts in the recession. In 2007, unemployment for college-educated whites was 1.8 percent; for college-educated blacks it was 2.7 percent. Now, the college-educated unemployment rate is 3.9 percent for whites and 7 percent for blacks. Now, this last one will surprise many of you, but it would not "surprise" most black people. Many non-black people really try hard to believe that racism is "not a big factor" anymore and that discrimination rarely exists. "A 2003 University of Chicago study by Devah Pager sent young white and black "testers" to apply for real low-wage jobs. Some of the testers were randomly assigned felony convictions. The study found that whites with felonies were slightly more likely to get callbacks than black applicants without criminal records." A White FELON is more likely to get callbacks than Black applicants WITHOUT criminal records. Everything in quotes was take directly from the article "Blacks Economic Gains Wiped Out in Economic Downturn" by Jesse Washington, under the "Eye On The Economy" section of MSNBC. HA!! I could post hundreds of studies like this, and many non-blacks would be in denial. So, whatever is going on in this current "economy" may be bad for those that are not of color, but I can tell you that "overall" Black people are suffering and WILL often suffer twice as much. IF non-white unemployment is 10%, Black unemployment is going to be close to 20%. Again, I am posting this as a source of information for those that "really may not have a clue" about how what is going on is affecting Black people disproportionately. It might even be an eye opener for those that really believe that racism "no longer exists" and that statistically there is NOT a big difference between Black and non-Black unemployment. Peace!

erieangel -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 8:52:33 PM)
This is sad. I happen to see it daily in dealing with young, black clients both of whom are struggling to find employment--any kind of employment. One gets up a 4 am each morning and walks two miles to a "day labor hiring site" and sits around watching while the white guys who walk in hours after he arrives get the jobs. Another dug ditches for 6 weeks, but that job ended. Sadly both these guys are just 19 and 20 and feeling growing anger, depression and hopelessness. What makes it worst for both of them is neither have any family and they've both come to my program from the foster care system.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 8:57:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel This is sad. I happen to see it daily in dealing with young, black clients both of whom are struggling to find employment--any kind of employment. One gets up a 4 am each morning and walks two miles to a "day labor hiring site" and sits around watching while the white guys who walk in hours after he arrives get the jobs. Another dug ditches for 6 weeks, but that job ended. Sadly both these guys are just 19 and 20 and feeling growing anger, depression and hopelessness. What makes it worst for both of them is neither have any family and they've both come to my program from the foster care system. Thank you for being honest and speaking up. I realize that many people here don't have a clue about what it is like to be a person of color, and continue to deny that racism is still very prevalent in America. I live in the Washington D.C. area, and I can't even BEGIN to tell you how many Black people were able to reach Middle Class status by working in the federal government. I don't expect many around here to "care", but maybe a few might gain some insight. At the very least, one or two might understand that the playing field is often not equal. Also, what is going on and what is getting ready to happen is decimating much of the Black community, and is bordering on "catastrophic". Thank you.

erieangel -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 9:00:40 PM)
I'm not a person of color, but I do work with them every day. I work in a residential facility that houses up to 6 young, mentally ill males and we almost always have at least one African American in our midst. Sometimes, they are the hardest to help.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 9:15:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel I'm not a person of color, but I do work with them every day. I work in a residential facility that houses up to 6 young, mentally ill males and we almost always have at least one African American in our midst. Sometimes, they are the hardest to help. At least one African American in your mist? lol I am glad they are not always the hardest to help! [8\|]

WyldHrt -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 9:53:41 PM)
One of my favorite customers is a young black man who has a small business. The last time he was down to pick up an order, we were chatting and he told me that most of his customers do not know that he is the owner. When people assume that he is an employee (which is most of the time), he lets them believe it because, per his personal experience, that of friends, and a lot of research- many people do not 'trust' a business owned by a black man. This guy is young, very smart, professional and is awesome at what he does... yet he still has to let people believe that there's a white guy in charge in order to be successful. I find that incredibly sad and unbelievably wrong.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt One of my favorite customers is a young black man who has a small business. The last time he was down to pick up an order, we were chatting and he told me that most of his customers do not know that he is the owner. When people assume that he is an employee (which is most of the time), he lets them believe it because, per his personal experience, that of friends, and a lot of research- many people do not 'trust' a business owned by a black man. This guy is young, very smart, professional and is awesome at what he does... yet he still has to let people believe that there's a white guy in charge in order to be successful. I find that incredibly sad and unbelievably wrong. He is a very SMART man, I am not surprised at all. I bet many here are, thanks for sharing!! [;)] Often when I write about the current economy recession/depression around here, I have often felt like I was in a parallel universe, now I feel great, because I realize I am!!! Anyone looking at the facts and figures, and reading articles similar to the one I posted would realize that things are indeed, "very, very, serious". It is obvious that Black folks as a whole will be in a Depression, long before some other folks. I will alert people on here when the Depression officially starts, so you can plan for it. [sm=mrpuffy.gif]

erieangel -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:17:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel I'm not a person of color, but I do work with them every day. I work in a residential facility that houses up to 6 young, mentally ill males and we almost always have at least one African American in our midst. Sometimes, they are the hardest to help. At least one African American in your mist? lol I am glad they are not always the hardest to help! [8\|] You misunderstood what I wrote, but I did not clarify it either. A young man doesn't want to have to deal with being mentally ill, black males are even harder to get into treatment. And when they (any young man) do land in treatment, they often resist the help being offered. Ever wonder why so many young black males have problems with the law? Untreated mental illness can lead to drug and alcohol abuse and criminal behavior. One of my jobs is to teach these young men that there is another way, a more productive way, a way in which they can recover from their mental illness and become a part of society. As for "at least one African American in our midst" I meant in the residential facility. Most guys that age don't seek help and black males a even less likely to do so, which mean we don't get many residents of color. Personally, I happen to live a inner city neighborhood that is predominately minority, which actually makes me the minority in this neighborhood.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:20:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel I'm not a person of color, but I do work with them every day. I work in a residential facility that houses up to 6 young, mentally ill males and we almost always have at least one African American in our midst. Sometimes, they are the hardest to help. At least one African American in your mist? lol I am glad they are not always the hardest to help! [8\|] You misunderstood what I wrote, but I did not clarify it either. A young man doesn't want to have to deal with being mentally ill, black males are even harder to get into treatment. And when they (any young man) do land in treatment, they often resist the help being offered. Ever wonder why so many young black males have problems with the law? Untreated mental illness can lead to drug and alcohol abuse and criminal behavior. One of my jobs is to teach these young men that there is another way, a more productive way, a way in which they can recover from their mental illness and become a part of society. As for "at least one African American in our midst" I meant in the residential facility. Most guys that age don't seek help and black males a even less likely to do so, which mean we don't get many residents of color. Personally, I happen to live a inner city neighborhood that is predominately minority, which actually makes me the minority in this neighborhood. There is a lot of stigma in the black community when it comes to getting psychiatric help and admitting to having psychiatric problems, I know this. Believe me when I say, this: "I understand".

erieangel -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:22:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt One of my favorite customers is a young black man who has a small business. The last time he was down to pick up an order, we were chatting and he told me that most of his customers do not know that he is the owner. When people assume that he is an employee (which is most of the time), he lets them believe it because, per his personal experience, that of friends, and a lot of research- many people do not 'trust' a business owned by a black man. This guy is young, very smart, professional and is awesome at what he does... yet he still has to let people believe that there's a white guy in charge in order to be successful. I find that incredibly sad and unbelievably wrong. He is a very SMART man, I am not surprised at all. I bet many here are, thanks for sharing!! [;)] Often when I write about the current economy recession/depression around here, I have often felt like I was in a parallel universe, now I feel great, because I realize I am!!! Anyone looking at the facts and figures, and reading articles similar to the one I posted would realize that things are indeed, "very, very, serious". It is obvious that Black folks as a whole will be in a Depression, long before some other folks. I will alert people on here when the Depression officially starts, so you can plan for it. [sm=mrpuffy.gif] Ok, I'm done responding to this thread. You, Marini, are picking apart what both WlydHrt and I said and implying that we are racists. WlydHrt wasn't saying that she found her customer very smart because she was surprised he was but because she found it sad that he felt he had hide the fact that he owned his business. Learn to read for context instead of just picking up on phrases you find offensive.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:24:42 PM)
Humm, erieangel, if you think ME stating I totally understand why her customer does that, is "picking her post apart", then we can agree to disagree. My comment on her post, was just that, a comment! If the young man thinks it would hurt his business to tell "everyone" that comes in there he is the owner, I do think the young man is smart.

tweakabelle -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:27:34 PM)
Though we're not in recession here - there's a "boom" supposed to be happening or so the economists tell us - the picture here is pretty similar. Most Australians like to think of Oz as a multi-cultural country - and that's true in the sense that there are many nationalities here. But infant mortality, life expectancy, employment, nett wealth, incarceration rates, most health indicators, and most social indicators exhibit marked skews against Aborigines. It's impossible not to conclude dealing with hate is daily part of Aboriginal lives. It's a peculiar feature of racism here that people who would usually object strongly to say, anti-Asian or anti-Muslim prejudice don't have any problem launching into vitriolic abuse of Aborigines. Another is that most of our suburbs aren't exclusive to one ethnic community - except the Aborigine ones. And that Aborigines' hard-fought gains in land rights and other areas are being whittled away as fast as the Right can dream up schemes to do it. So it seems that these gains turn out to be as fragile as the gains made by middle class blacks in the US. I wish I could think of something optimistic to say but I can't.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:38:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Though we're not in recession here - there's a "boom" supposed to be happening or so the economists tell us - the picture here is pretty similar. Most Australians like to think of Oz as a multi-cultural country - and that's true in the sense that there are many nationalities here. But infant mortality, life expectancy, employment, nett wealth, incarceration rates, most health indicators, and most social indicators exhibit marked skews against Aborigines. It's impossible not to conclude dealing with hate is daily part of Aboriginal lives. It's a peculiar feature of racism here that people who would usually object strongly to say, anti-Asian or anti-Muslim prejudice don't have any problem launching into vitriolic abuse of Aborigines. Another is that most of our suburbs aren't exclusive to one ethnic community - except the Aborigine ones. And that Aborigines' hard-fought gains in land rights and other areas are being whittled away as fast as the Right can dream up schemes to do it. So it seems that these gains turn out to be as fragile as the gains made by middle class blacks in the US. I wish I could think of something optimistic to say but I can't. Tweaky, if I can think of anything "optimistic" to say about the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia, I will add it later. I will post a link to an article I found fascinating. Sir Bob Geldof {who I had a crush on years ago}, wonders why Australia feels the "need" to import labor rather than encourging the use of employing Aborigines. ha I see a similar situation here in the United States, for those who think hard enough. Maybe, Sir Bob can intervene here in the United States? Sir Bob Geldof slams Australia's treatment of the Aborigines

WyldHrt -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:45:16 PM)
quote: thanks for sharing!! You're welcome. What he told me leaped to mind when I read your OP.

WyldHrt -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 10:51:24 PM)
quote: You, Marini, are picking apart what both WlydHrt and I said and implying that we are racists. WlydHrt wasn't saying that she found her customer very smart because she was surprised he was but because she found it sad that he felt he had hide the fact that he owned his business. Learn to read for context instead of just picking up on phrases you find offensive. Huh?? I didn't get that from what she wrote at all.

erieangel -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 11:31:24 PM)
quote: There is a lot of stigma in the black community when it comes to getting psychiatric help and admitting to having psychiatric problems, I know this. Believe me when I say, this: "I understand". This: At least one African American in your mist? lol I am glad they are not always the hardest to help! does not mean the same as: There is a lot of stigma in the black community when it comes to getting psychiatric help and admitting to having psychiatric problems, I know this. Believe me when I say, this: "I understand". And this: He is a very SMART man, I am not surprised at all. I bet many here are, thanks for sharing!! Does is not even close to meaning: If the young man thinks it would hurt his business to tell "everyone" that comes in there he is the owner, I do think the young man is smart. Maybe it was not I who should have been more explanatory in my posts, but you who should have been. If you had said what you did the second posts and not what you had in the first, I never would have misunderstood you.

Marini -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/10/2011 11:39:49 PM)
I am not the person on here, whining and complaining here. Nor am I picking fights. This thread is about how middle class Blacks are losing their economic gains. Thank you both for sharing.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/11/2011 12:50:53 AM)
See, the numbers PROOVE that reversible racism destroys the white middle class. Wasn't like that before affirmiative action. All them Leebrul Commie Noamist Chumpskis have emascastrated real white Amerikkkans. Hell there ain't even an Aryan left in StromThurmondFront. LockedUpUpandAway will tell you you rent to one Section 8er and next thing you know them Uppities will be wantin edumacation and childhood nutrition and Cohibas and the Vote and free watermelon and fried chicken and Chateau Mouton-Rothschild and jobs and R-E-S-P-E-C-T /heavy sarcasm, irony, and ON with total disgust with Gooptard ratfuckers. Pigfucker Paul Ryan goes and slugs down TWO $350 bottles of Echezeaux Grand Cru Burgundy at some tony feedmill with two of the honky ratfuckers who own him, then puts one on his Credit card 'cause he has been CAUGHT accepting a bribe, and this is the same hemorroid-sucker who came up with a >cough cough< "budget" that cuts middle class jobs and gives money to his ratfucker owners. And the ratfuckers piss and moan about 500,000 jobs lost when THEY are the ones who cut them nationwide. Shitbag colon-lickers.

DomYngBlk -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/11/2011 5:20:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I read this article a few hours ago and was saddened by it. [&o] Black Middle Class gains being wiped out Articles like the one I just posted, might explain why I often am "a little more concerned" about what is going on in America, than many other people. [;)] I am not posting this, because I expect anyone that is not Black to necessarily relate to this post, but to maybe gain some insight into the realities hitting Black Americans especially hard. Here are a few highlights of the article that saddened me: "Millions of Americans endured similar financial calamities in the recession. But for Goldring and many others in the black community, where unemployment is still rising, job loss has knocked them out of the middle class and back into poverty. Some even see a historic reversal of hard-won economic gains that took black people decades to achieve." and "Economists say the Great Recession lasted from 2007 to 2009. In 2004, the median net worth of white households was $134,280, compared with $13,450 for black households, according to an analysis of Federal Reserve data by the Economic Policy Institute. By 2009, the median net worth for white households had fallen 24 percent to $97,860; the median black net worth had fallen 83 percent to $2,170, according to the EPI." and "Since the end of the recession, the overall unemployment rate has fallen from 9.4 to 9.1 percent, while the black unemployment rate has risen from 14.7 to 16.2 percent, according to the Department of Labor." "Spike in unemployment Last April, black male unemployment hit the highest rate since the government began keeping track in 1972. Only 56.9 percent of black men over age 20 were working, compared with 68.1 percent of white men." and "History is going to say that the black middle class was decimated" over the past few years, Wiley says. "But we're not done writing history." "College-educated blacks fared worse than their white counterparts in the recession. In 2007, unemployment for college-educated whites was 1.8 percent; for college-educated blacks it was 2.7 percent. Now, the college-educated unemployment rate is 3.9 percent for whites and 7 percent for blacks. Now, this last one will surprise many of you, but it would not "surprise" most black people. Many non-black people really try hard to believe that racism is "not a big factor" anymore and that discrimination rarely exists. "A 2003 University of Chicago study by Devah Pager sent young white and black "testers" to apply for real low-wage jobs. Some of the testers were randomly assigned felony convictions. The study found that whites with felonies were slightly more likely to get callbacks than black applicants without criminal records." A White FELON is more likely to get callbacks than Black applicants WITHOUT criminal records. Everything in quotes was take directly from the article "Blacks Economic Gains Wiped Out in Economic Downturn" by Jesse Washington, under the "Eye On The Economy" section of MSNBC. HA!! I could post hundreds of studies like this, and many non-blacks would be in denial. So, whatever is going on in this current "economy" may be bad for those that are not of color, but I can tell you that "overall" Black people are suffering and WILL often suffer twice as much. IF non-white unemployment is 10%, Black unemployment is going to be close to 20%. Again, I am posting this as a source of information for those that "really may not have a clue" about how what is going on is affecting Black people disproportionately. It might even be an eye opener for those that really believe that racism "no longer exists" and that statistically there is NOT a big difference between Black and non-Black unemployment. Peace! Yeah, no shit

samboct -> RE: Most of Black Middle Class economic gains being wiped out (7/11/2011 5:53:12 AM)
HI Marini I work in one of the most segregated fields of all when it comes to blacks- the hard sciences. The sciences aren't segregated for Asians or Indians, so I'll tend not to use the term "people of color" because it would be inaccurate. Also note that in the sciences- American Indians are also essentially nonexistent. In my academic career- I had one black grad student TA when I was an undergrad (and she was smart, pretty, and one of the best TAs I had)- and none of my classmates in grad school were black- either at Dartmouth or at UC Davis where I did a post doc. When I go to conferences- hell, you'd be more likely to run into a priest on these boards than a black person attending the conference. At the booths- some companies may have hired some black individuals, but all too often, they're not the ones with the technical know how.... The sciences haven't been a great career as of late- but not learning science has crippled blacks from entering other professions such as medicine. Having done a little substitute teaching in inner city, i.e. predominantly black neighborhoods- trying to teach science under those conditions is a herculean task. What aggravates me about the budget cuts we're seeing is that most of them are focused on education- which has been the key to the gains of the middle class- both black and everybody else. But we know damn well that those cuts are going to fall hardest on the teachers in inner city neighborhoods....I'd much rather see budget cuts in things like prison construction, retirement packages for the police where at age 45, these guys are getting six figure pensions- and can go out and get another job! or the military budget. But it seems like prisons and prison guards are nearly sacrosanct. And as someone who's had a little exposure to the way the law works in this country- it's very much slanted against blacks whether in arrests or death penalty cases. Whites largely trust the police- blacks don't- and for good reason. That's the downside I see. On the upside, my niece and nephew are growing up in Brooklyn and attending public school there. I've been to my nieces Christmas musical performance- and my take was that the school was pretty well integrated- maybe 1/4 black? My niece and nephew have friends who are black and whose parents come from the same socio economic background as my brother. My nieces school seems to be doing a better job of integration than the ones I attended-we had a few black kids but they largely kept to themselves. These kids play together. I hope this trend extends beyond grade school. One way to look at this is that the racism that segregated blacks and whites for so many generations is going to take a long time to heal- but there are signs in some economically healthy communities that it's progressing very well. Consequently- I do echo your dismay with this article. I'll bet that its the black middle class communities- not the integrated communities, that are suffering the most. PS- don't assume that your fellow denizens on this board aren't going to understand your plight. Come on- the country did elect Obama. Doesn't mean that racism and lack of opportunity for blacks has vanished, but 50 years ago- that would have been a bigger shock than Reagan getting elected. Cheers, Sam

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