RE: Mental Health (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Mental Health (7/22/2011 11:55:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Sanctioned by whom?' is the question under discussion. The State, God? I wonder what Jesus thought of the killings carried out by the Roman state?

Yanno, talking to you is like trying to pick up snot. First you play the Bible card...

Yet, where it says in the Bible - in the Ten Commandments, no less - "Thou shalt not kill" . . . that's not at all clear. Oh no. Mightily ambiguous, that is. What God probably meant there was was 'Thou shalt not eat krill, like whales', or some such.

When I point out that most translations render the word as "murder," then you say the question is "sanctioned by whom?"

In the context of a Biblical commandment??? Gee, can I think about that one for a bit?

K.



Look, Kirata, I always try not to find you and your attitude on most things deliberately evasive and contemptuous of me and others, but every time I do, you kick back and show what you are. You've got out of the habit of inviting everyone to believe that you're cheerfully on top of everything by finishing every post with a "[:D]" - and I'm glad of that, at least, because I always can see suppressed fury when it's there. And it so often *is* there, when you post.

And I know when it's being projected onto me, as well. I didn't "play the Bible card", I brought up points about the Bible. Granted, I can get angry about that issue for many reasons, partly because people routinely trash what's timelessly good about it. The fact of the Commandment not to kill is one good thing. The fact that Jesus had some sense of social understanding (versus an understanding of just individual ethics) is another; the fact that he taught by example is perhaps the most important of all.

When I've asked you questions, I've meant them as questions. Questions. You never, ever go all the way to answer them, though. Why? I can't help thinking because again, you project your own make-up on me and think, "Ah! I see his trap, the crafty bastard!"

So, I asked you, earlier:

"I still haven't quite pinned down the point at which you think a good an honourable place like the USA 'executes' people for their 'crimes', whereas a very nasty place like Nazi Germany 'murdered' people for things, like being Jewish, which weren't true crimes at all... "

And your answer was:

"Well I wish you luck on that one then."

Great. A key point for me, as a political scientist, brushed aside by you, as so often. Not up for discussion. Just as when I do ask a question on something on which I'm no expert - say, the Bible - again: not up for discussion.

OK. What about this: you and I evidently rub each other up the wrong way too much. Why don't we just stop talking to each other? I mean, I think we can both agree it doesn't get either of us anywhere, right?




Kirata -> RE: Mental Health (7/22/2011 11:58:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I always try not to find you and your attitude on most things deliberately evasive and contemptuous of me and others, but every time I do, you kick back and show what you are.

I think that concludes your argument.

K.




PeonForHer -> RE: Mental Health (7/22/2011 12:49:17 PM)

I don't know if I have a concluding remark here, but it's certainly a 'bottom line' kind of remark, to you and to all:

One thing that is becoming really clear to me is that a lot of what's being said on this thread is in tones of surprise at things that are taken for granted. On all sides of the argument. I've just been reading about CP on various sites. It gave me the shudders. It was ugly and repugnant to read. Furthermore, I could imagine people from Scandinavia reading about the British penal system being similarly repulsed. Ours *is* a punitive system, by comparison.

The whole concept of CP is alien to me. No doubt living in a place without the death penalty is alien to those who've lived with the idea all their lives.

Well, maybe at least some of the disagreement is down to 'East, west, home is best'.




Kirata -> RE: Mental Health (7/22/2011 6:58:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

maybe at least some of the disagreement is down to 'East, west, home is best'.

Countries have different characters (no pun intended), so I guess that's part of it. But even aside from that, any circumscribed metric will fail to convey the whole picture and play havoc with the comfortable clichés we toss around. Case in point, Saudi Arabia has one of the lowest rates of rape and murder in the world.

K.




PeonForHer -> RE: Mental Health (7/22/2011 7:36:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Case in point, Saudi Arabia has one of the lowest rates of rape and murder in the world.



I heard something similar, yes. A friend of mine taught English as a foreign language out there for a long while. He used to say that we westerners had no idea of what social control was by comparison. He'd come back to the UK for his regular three-monthly breaks every year and spend every day drunk and stoned out of his box. But no doubt it's a lot more complicated than can be covered just by the phrase 'social control'.




Aileen1968 -> RE: Mental Health (7/22/2011 8:30:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Case in point, Saudi Arabia has one of the lowest rates of rape and murder in the world.



I heard something similar, yes. A friend of mine taught English as a foreign language out there for a long while. He used to say that we westerners had no idea of what social control was by comparison. He'd come back to the UK for his regular three-monthly breaks every year and spend every day drunk and stoned out of his box. But no doubt it's a lot more complicated than can be covered just by the phrase 'social control'.



I lived in Saudi for five years. Everyone had homemade stills (that stuff was potent beyond belief) if they drank, and you could get the friggin best hashish in the world there. If he didn't know that then he's a complete antisocial dork. As for their method of justice...they didn't call call the public square Chop Chop Square for nuthin...




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