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Fasting - 7/19/2011 3:03:58 PM

sunshinemiss

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Hi everybody!

I have a little time off this summer, and I'd like to complete something from my bucket list. I've always wanted to do a week long fast. My thyroid makes it impossible to do a full fast without harming my health (I have hypothyroidism), and I've JUST gotten the correct amount of meds. I'm not willing to mess with that. But I figure a liquid fast with full proteins and vitamins and such would be doable. Just no solid food, no chewing.

I'd like to do something with the yogurt I've been making. Yogurt shakes with protein powder. However, I can't have food like tofu because it's bad for someone with hypothyroidism ... a lot of protein shakes are out because the powders are made with soy. Soy interacts with the medication in a bad way.

Any suggestions? Any recipes? I don't want to just go with loads of sugar

.... I'd like to get a full complement of vitamins. (and yes, I'm doing some research and such, and yes I have a plan, but I also know the collected wisdom of the folks here)

Thanks for your help!
sunshine

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RE: Fasting - 7/19/2011 4:23:46 PM

LadyConstanze

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Out of interest, I'm hypo too, never heard that fasting interferes with the meds or the condition unless you stop taking the meds? Could you please give me some info on that? Same thing with tofu, seriously never heard about it and seen lots of specialists, I'd understand if it was only in the UK (where thyroid medicine is a bit in it's infancy), but even in other countries nobody ever mentioned anything about fasting or tofu.

It's just if there is any medical basis to it, I definitely want to take soy and tofu products out of my diet. The fasting I usually did was more of a cleanse with restricted things you are allowed to eat, it actually seemed to increase the thyroid activity (after surgery I only got 10% of my thyroid left - I was a teen when they did the surgery, here they told me they usually remove the whole thyroid and supplement completely with synthyroid). So I'd be very grateful for any info, been a slight nightmare as the generics that are available in the UK don't work for me (for some odd reason my body can't process them) and I was told I must be imagining it, luckily the consultant is aware of the problem and I'm getting them now from a doctor in Europe, seems like the manufacturing process makes a massive difference in the ability of the individual body to absorb it and the medication that works best for me is just not available here (joy of all joys), so yes, please, any info on hypo thyroidism you can share, please please please...

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 2:21:57 AM

DeviantlyD

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http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1289/ehp.02110s3349

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571087

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/hypothyroidism-000093.htm

http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/articles/Do_soy_products_cause_thyroid_problems.htm

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 3:08:39 AM

LadyConstanze

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Thanks, as I said nobody ever mentioned soy that it might have a negative effect, and most of the doctors asked about my diet, I mentioned that I don't eat meat but fish and the occasional tofu, but it doesn't seem to be so much of a concern anyway:

quote:

Thus, collectively the findings provide little evidence that in euthyroid, iodine-replete individuals, soy foods, or isoflavones adversely affect thyroid function. In contrast, some evidence suggests that soy foods, by inhibiting absorption, may increase the dose of thyroid hormone required by hypothyroid patients. However, hypothyroid adults need not avoid soy foods. In addition, there remains a theoretical concern based on in vitro and animal data that in individuals with compromised thyroid function and/or whose iodine intake is marginal soy foods may increase risk of developing clinical hypothyroidism. Therefore, it is important for soy food consumers to make sure their intake of iodine is adequate.

What I found odd is the University of Maryland, claiming that goiters are rare in the developed world, when goiters are often (almost in every case since the thyroid enlarges) a side effect of thyroid malfunctions and they estimate that about 30% of the population in the Western world have thyroid problems, while Japan has a minimal problem with it, and their diet seems to consist of a lot of soy, but it also consists of a lot of fish and sea vegetables.

I'm just surprised that nobody ever mentioned the soy products to me and I've had thyroid treatment for about 20 years, problems kicked in with puberty. I was aware that fish is good (and I tend to have cravings for fish), but definitely will bring that up next time I see my consultant and rather leave soy out of my diet.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 4:18:21 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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LadyC, sure check it out with your endocrinologist but if your hypothyroidism is under control with the amount of soy you are consuming I see no reason to stop eating tofu.

Zeph

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 4:33:15 AM

DeviantlyD

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I don't have all of the literature at hand, but I've done a bit of research into this topic and the takeaway message I got from it is that it is processed soy products (such as simulated meat products) that are the ones to avoid. Apparently the fermentation process for soy (e.g. miso) destroys isoflavones and known toxins (phytic acid) in the soybean and so fermented rather than processed soy is the way to go. The whole "is soy good or bad for you?" subject is still a controversial one.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 4:42:23 AM

sunshinemiss

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... so ... I guess not, huh?
That's ok.

There are a whole slew of things that interfere with the meds for hypothyroidism including strawberries, cabbage, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, edamame, etc. It's actually kind of a drag - I love asparagus and brussel sprouts and edamame and bean sprouts and tofu. :( OH well. I like having energy more than I like those things!

As for why fasting causes problems - it has something to do with your body thinking you are starving and that slows down your (already) underactive thyroid, making it worse. that's how I understand it. Every doctor I've been to has said fasting is a bad idea. Being able to do it with replacement calories is what I'm looking for.

best,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 7/20/2011 4:45:11 AM >

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 5:02:13 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

There are a whole slew of things that interfere with the meds for hypothyroidism including strawberries, cabbage, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, edamame, etc.

Add calcium supplements to that list. According to my endocrinologist they should be taken at least four hours before or after taking Synthroid because the supplements will decrease the effectiveness of the Synthroid.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 5:35:51 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

I don't have all of the literature at hand, but I've done a bit of research into this topic and the takeaway message I got from it is that it is processed soy products (such as simulated meat products) that are the ones to avoid. Apparently the fermentation process for soy (e.g. miso) destroys isoflavones and known toxins (phytic acid) in the soybean and so fermented rather than processed soy is the way to go. The whole "is soy good or bad for you?" subject is still a controversial one.

Makes sense, I tend to avoid the processed soy products and not all that much tofu, but I do tend to eat soy beans as snacks sometimes.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 5:51:40 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

As for why fasting causes problems - it has something to do with your body thinking you are starving and that slows down your (already) underactive thyroid, making it worse. that's how I understand it. Every doctor I've been to has said fasting is a bad idea. Being able to do it with replacement calories is what I'm looking for.

best,
sunshine

Basically like having an overly calorie reduced diet where your body goes into starvation mode to burn less, would make sense.

I looked up the foods that are good for hypothyroidism a while ago (that's why I was also puzzled that no soy was mentioned there) and the stuff being good for me seems to be stuff I really like anyway (like oily fish, raw fruit and veg, I'm mad for lava bread - a Welsh thing that's made out of kelp, etc.), I think much of the thyroid problems are due to the fact that they are so unpredictable and manifest differently in everybody. When I tried to get my meds here, I was first told that I am not hypo, I must be imagining it, because I would be really really big as people gain lots of weight - well apparently not everybody. For me it was mainly depressions, aching joints and forgetting things, the forgetting things scared me most as my memory is usually excellent.

Usually the Euthyrox (a synthyroid that agrees with my body and that my body absorbs) is the first thing I take in the morning, before I'm actually out of bed and step into the shower or brush teeth, so there is enough time in between that, my morning coffee and other supplements to not interfere.

Have you tried codliver oil capsules and Q-10 (a co-enzyme)? After taking them for a while I felt like the dose of synthyroid should be reduced and went for a test and it also seems to increase the body's ability to absorb the thyroid medication and make full use of it.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 6:03:10 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

Have you tried codliver oil capsules and Q-10 (a co-enzyme)? After taking them for a while I felt like the dose of synthyroid should be reduced and went for a test and it also seems to increase the body's ability to absorb the thyroid medication and make full use of it.

Thanks for the tip even though it wasn't addressed to me, LadyC, I'll mention it next time I see my endocrinologist.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 6:18:39 AM

LadyConstanze

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Cool, hope it helps, I was told to be careful with supplements in general as quite a few interfere with the thyroid meds, but an endo explained that most women who suffer from hypothyroidism are also q-10 deficient and it might not be a bad idea to give it a try while being monitored, I went from 150 to 100.

I did a quick google:

quote:

In particular, hyperthyroidism is a key risk for women. Says Dr. Sinatra, "If a woman is hyperthyroid, this can be a disaster, because in hyperthyroidism, a hyperactive thyroid gland can burn up all the CoQ10 in the body. The metabolism is so high that CoQ10 is stolen away from the heart. When this happens, the woman can go into heart failure. "Many times I have seen hyperthyroid storm in a woman associated with heart failure. We didn't understand why women got heart failure and hyperthyroidism at the same time. We used to think it was a virus, but now we know the hyperthyroidism takes away the CoQ10."

I don't know why it helps also with the thyroid or if that was just an odd coincidence, but it does seem to do something good and since it's not too expensive, I gladly take that.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 6:22:13 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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My thyroid is a real bitch. It lets me think it's under control then my TSH and T4free go up. It was still in the normal range last time they were checked a month or so ago, but who knows what it will do next.

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 6:35:54 AM

sunshinemiss

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I will look into that. Thanks for the tip!

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RE: Fasting - 7/20/2011 6:41:54 AM

LadyConstanze

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Thyroids tend to be a bit funny, when they work as they should, you don't even realize you have one, when they go wrong they just go wrong in such a spectacular way...

I found that in general I need less thyroid meds in the summer than in the winter, none of the doctors could quite explain it, also when I go surfing a lot and I'm in the sea, it causes me almost no problem, last year I forgot my meds at home (usually never happens because I keep a blister packet in my bag with toothbrush and shampoo, no clue how I managed that) and after 2 days without it, I'm usually a bit zombiefied - now being in Cornwall and on the beach or near the sea 24/7, it didn't seem to matter much, at the end of the week I could feel that I was a quite low, but more like when I forget it maybe once?

Talked with my endo about it and he said considering the state of my thyroid, it's odd as there really isn't enough left to give me enough natural thyroxin, cautioned me to not repeat the experiment, but told me that it might be a good idea to lower the dose slightly if I'm going there again. People near the sea tend to have less thyroid problems, but the trouble with thyroids is that they just don't tend to heal or self-repair, so once you got a problem with it, most people tend to be stuck with it for the rest of their lives and if something works for somebody, it might not work for somebody else. Some people respond to only the natural hormone, others are quite sensitive to how the synthetic ones are made and while one brand might be ideal for me, the next person with the same problem might respond differently.

Having a thyroid problem simply is a bitch! I could do without it...

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RE: Fasting - 7/21/2011 9:02:39 PM

DesFIP

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A significant minority of those with hypothyroidism find that soy is a definite no-no. I started using soymilk with cereal daily to deal with menopausal symptoms and it screwed up my TSH big time.I'm now taking a much higher dosage of thyroid meds and dealing with the side effect of the high dosage, anxiety.

Sunny, I'm not sure if there are health food stores in Seoul like we have here. Here, there's a product called muscle milk which body builders and football players use. I buy it for the teen when he's pumping iron a lot. It's mainly milk protein but it does have a lot of sugar. You could just buy dry milk powder and use that. Or add an egg to the smoothies for some protein.

For general electrolytes, gatorade and such. There's a sugar free version The Man buys, called Powerade Zero. Again no idea if you have access to it. Plus vitamins.

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RE: Fasting - 7/22/2011 2:27:39 AM

LadyConstanze

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There's also rice milk, as soy milk just tastes really really awful...

Though your TSH could possibly also have to do with the menopausal symptoms? Most women who have thyroid problems found that the thyroid started acting up when there were hormonal changes (puberty, pregnancy, menopause seem to be the big triggers).

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RE: Fasting - 7/22/2011 2:37:52 PM

DesFIP

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It started acting up after the second pregnancy but according to the endocrinologist I saw. the TSH went sky high as a result of the soy.

Oh and the vanilla soy isn't bad at all. Rice milk is just nasty although someone suggested almond milk is better. I haven't tried it yet. If I crave a bowl of cereal I just pour apple juice on it.

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RE: Fasting - 7/22/2011 3:22:21 PM

LadyConstanze

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I'd still check out the hormonal angle, it seems to be so linked to hormones. Lately (meaning the last few years since I moved to the UK) they gave me all sorts of explanations starting from "abnormally early onset of menopause" - though my estrogen levels were fine and my periods like clockwork - to possibly diabetes (no signs of that despite them checking repeatedly), I seem to have a very clued up endo now (the one who caught on that a different manufacturing process can make a massive difference in how the medication is absorbed) and he said that whenever I think I start to get close to menopause (where luckily I seem to be years away from) to go on hormone therapy or keep all thyroid related levels under extreme close control - I think I might opt for HRT.

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RE: Fasting - 7/26/2011 7:04:35 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Oh and the vanilla soy isn't bad at all. Rice milk is just nasty although someone suggested almond milk is better. I haven't tried it yet. If I crave a bowl of cereal I just pour apple juice on it.

Almond milk is actually pretty good. I've tried Oat Milk, too, but only one brand tastes good (Pacific Foods of Oregon).

As for soy and hormones, LC, all I can say is I was on a soy kick for awhile, drinking soy lattes every day, soy milk for serial, etc., and around the same time I started experiencing serious hot flashes and the backs of my hands itched like crazy. Out of curiosity I cut soy out of my diet and voila - no more hot flashes, no more itching. I'll still do soymilk on rare occasion, but nothing like before.

Sorry I couldn't contribute to your fasting research, Sunny. I'd like to do a fast some day, too, but I'd start it at a 3 day. I'm not ready for something like that yet, but I always admire those who are able to do this.

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