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RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:41:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
the wealthy people; the inventors, the employers, the entrepreneurs

Which one are you?

P.S.: Don't be an insulting douchebag shitting all over the thread.

Which one am I, lazy-liberal-fuck? I'm an inventor with a patent but it didn't go anywhere. Of course, I was also 15 when I got my patent. I am the employer. I am the entrepreneur. I am at the low end of wealthy. Any other questions, lazy-lib boy?

So, you're a failure as an inventor. Thank you.

How many people are on your payroll?

What companies have you brought along that we might have heard about?

P.S.: The government is no longer collecting taxes on airline tickets, costing them around 200 million a week. The airlines reacted to this by raising their ticket prices 7.5% to compensate for the new savings.

Yes, ugly little liberal failure man, I am a failure of an inventor. I will say this with a certain amount of pride, loser, I have failed at many, many, many things. And I keep coming back, undeterred, unshaken, fists up and head tucked. Try it sometime. Rather than whine "ohhhh...they have more than I do, its not fair! Their ice cream cone is bigger!" etc. etc. etc. try actually making something out of your pathetic and leeching existence.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:41:57 AM

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Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Liberals ARE failures. Unpatriotic, needful, pieces of trash. They can't make it on their own

Nope...liberals are failures. You people argue and scream for other people's money and it is never enough.
Grubby, needy, greedy liberal bastards. Those are the ones that are destroying this country.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I'm as liberal as they come and I was able to retire at 41.

I don't have to work another day in my life unless I choose to.

/facepalm

Reading comprehension. It is hard.

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:43:06 AM

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Has anyone told Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, .....

(in reply to imperatrixx)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:43:42 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

I choose the side of those who earned what they have

So, since INHERITED WEALTH is by defintion unearned income, you philosophically shouldn't have a problem with a 100% estate tax. You die and THEN you pay your taxes, which are all your assets. After all, your kids should be smart enough to take care of themselves, and if not, you know FUCK THEM...... Might simplify a lot of paperwork all around....

Wow..and so you are stupid in addition to lazy? Inherited wealth IS earned wealth, fool! It was earned by the Testator who had to pay taxes on it, Comrade Fargle. Needy little Fargle.

Did you miss the part about how they wouldn't pay taxes until they died? At that point, their kids can earn their own money, right? Or not. Why should YOU care about them and their failure?

No libby...I didn't miss that point. Why don't you tell me why the U.S. government should charge a tax on the money that it-

OWNS is the word you should have used next.

The US Government OWNS THE MONEY. You are just allowed to use it. And taxes are the fees you pay to use the US Government's Money. Don't want to pay taxes? LEAVE THE UNITED STATES AND DON'T USE OUR MONEY ANYMORE.

Simple. Use the Free Market and move to the government where you can get the best deal. America. Love it or Leave it!

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:44:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Why a VAT? Why a hidden tax? Why not just a sales tax that is an easy percentage?

It's hardly "hidden" when everyone knows it's there. And it's just as easy a percentage as a sales tax would be.

Two significant advantages, however--first, the burden is far less than having every retailer nationwide add federal sales tax reporting and collecting to their already considerable legal responsibilities. Second, it prevents a common problem with state and local sales taxes--enforcing collection. When this tax is collected at the production end, renegade retailers are still indirectly paying the tax.

Sounds good in theory. I don't know that much about it. In order to have the VAT or the Federal Sales tax, we would need to also implement the flat tax or at least a drastically reduced federal income tax. I agree with the VAT or sales tax, an even percentage that could be printed right on the label, no surprises to anyone.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:45:21 AM

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Yes, ugly little liberal failure man, I am a failure of an inventor. I will say this with a certain amount of pride, loser, I have failed at many, many, many things. And I keep coming back, undeterred, unshaken, fists up and head tucked. Try it sometime. Rather than whine "ohhhh...they have more than I do, its not fair! Their ice cream cone is bigger!" etc. etc. etc. try actually making something out of your pathetic and leeching existence.

You haven't told us how many full-time jobs with benefits YOU HAVE DIRECTLY CREATED.

We're waiting.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:48:09 AM

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quote:

In order to have the VAT or the Federal Sales tax, we would need to also implement the flat tax or at least a drastically reduced federal income tax.

Faulty causation.

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:48:33 AM

Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

OWNS is the word you should have used next.

The US Government OWNS THE MONEY. You are just allowed to use it. And taxes are the fees you pay to use the US Government's Money. Don't want to pay taxes? LEAVE THE UNITED STATES AND DON'T USE OUR MONEY ANYMORE.

Simple. Use the Free Market and move to the government where you can get the best deal. America. Love it or Leave it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

I choose the side of those who earned what they have

So, since INHERITED WEALTH is by defintion unearned income, you philosophically shouldn't have a problem with a 100% estate tax. You die and THEN you pay your taxes, which are all your assets. After all, your kids should be smart enough to take care of themselves, and if not, you know FUCK THEM...... Might simplify a lot of paperwork all around....

Wow..and so you are stupid in addition to lazy? Inherited wealth IS earned wealth, fool! It was earned by the Testator who had to pay taxes on it, Comrade Fargle. Needy little Fargle.

Did you miss the part about how they wouldn't pay taxes until they died? At that point, their kids can earn their own money, right? Or not. Why should YOU care about them and their failure?

No libby...I didn't miss that point. Why don't you tell me why the U.S. government should charge a tax on the money that it-

OWNS is the word you should have used next.

The US Government OWNS THE MONEY. You are just allowed to use it. And taxes are the fees you pay to use the US Government's Money. Don't want to pay taxes? LEAVE THE UNITED STATES AND DON'T USE OUR MONEY ANYMORE.

Simple. Use the Free Market and move to the government where you can get the best deal. America. Love it or Leave it!

What a twisted fuck you are! The government DOES NOT own the money. You (well...not you, obviously) own it. There are taxable events that impact on that money but the holder of the legal tender is who owns it, comrade. Simply because the property one acquires in this country is subject to taxation, licenses, penalties and even forfeiture, does not mean that citizen doesn't own it. Boy, that would come as a real shock to the Rockefellar family whose assets have been owned since the mid 1800's.

Fargle, you aren't an American. You want a free ride. Go find one in another country. People like you are the cancer that is killing this once great nation.

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 7/24/2011 8:49:29 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:50:19 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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From: The Great Frozen North
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Hey lockedaway please trim your quotes, your last post is really hard to read.

Zeph

_____________________________

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The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:51:18 AM

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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Someone somewhere gave an analogy that it's like you and your Republican friends all phone up and order some pizza. The delivery guy comes to the door, you get everyone together to pitch in for the pizza you all agreed on to buy, and the Republican friends now refuse to pay for the food they ordered previously.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:51:33 AM

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Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

In order to have the VAT or the Federal Sales tax, we would need to also implement the flat tax or at least a drastically reduced federal income tax.

Faulty causation.

What is faulty causation???? If you implement a VAT then you have passed a tax increase. Correct? So let me see if I get you correctly. You want a VAT on top of a 35% income tax? Name an economist that supports a VAT without a corresponding reduction in the income tax rate.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:53:02 AM

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Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Hey lockedaway please trim your quotes, your last post is really hard to read.

Zeph

Sorry Zeph, will do. I'm pretty much done with Fargle today anyway.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:54:28 AM

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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

What a twisted fuck you are! The government DOES NOT own the money. You (well...not you, obviously) own it.

Why don't you try to take $30,000 in cash with you through the TSA screening at the airport, and tell THEM that you own that money... See what they say...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:57:55 AM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

Much appreciated! We are encouraged to trim our quotes anyway.

Zeph

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:59:05 AM

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

What is faulty causation?

One is not dependent on the other. Hence, no causation. It's a basic logical fallacy (you said in another thread that you had taken a logic course in college).

Anyone adding the deficit numbers can see cuts alone aren't going to do it. Hence the need to enhance revenue. I'll leave you to your own research. Your feelings about this aren't going to produce what you think, as the same 80% of exempt items and incomes will still be exempt. You simply want to change the tax system, and your projections are simply wishful thinking based on an unsupported belief that there's a vast army of poor/alien tax dodgers who will be caught up in your net and contribute hundreds of billions to federal coffers.

Nor is there a need for a cataclysmic tax increase--simply rolling back to pre-Bush tax rates (where we did fine) would be a healthy start.

By the way, uncollected state and local sales taxes number in the several billions per state. But states can't realistically impose a VAT (interstate commerce). A federal VAT, however, even a modest one, would collect these funds (generally from Indian nation sales to non-Indians, Internet commerce, and flat out tax dodgers, not your supposed army of poor/illegals).

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/24/2011 9:03:50 AM >

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 8:59:40 AM

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Enough time spent dealing with someone like Fargle.

Read his posts. Fargle says you own none of your money or property because it is actually owned by the Federal Government. Does that sound right to you? Do you believe that you have a right under the constitution to amass private property and wealth in America? Do you believe that the government owning all of your wealth sounds like something akin to a communist system?

For those of you that have children or other family or even friends for that matter, should Fargle's twisted views be the law of the land and there should be a 100% estate tax where nothing can be bequeathed to anyone?

Should people be taxed to death to pay for people like Fargle?

I said it before and I will say it again, Fargle's views and the people who share them are the true enemy of the United States and YOU personally. You may consider me caustic and insulting. But I advocate for nothing that would take bread off of your table or out of the mouths of people you love or in any way limit your freedoms. And that makes me the opposite of Fargle.

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 9:04:42 AM

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That's right. I hear your mom calling you... Y'all better run off home now.

For the record, you haven't ever answered the Employer/Entrepreneur question of how many FTE jobs you've personally created, so I'm going to assume that like your 'inventing career', your employer and entrepreneur credentials are also non-existent.

Remember, the Democrats would accept a "deal" wherein the debt limit is raised, thus avoiding default. The Republicans would not. All else is just details. I therefore suggest that we start calling this "the Republican Default of 2011".

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to lockedaway)

RE: frustrated with President Obama - 7/24/2011 9:38:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

For the record, you haven't ever answered the Employer/Entrepreneur question of how many FTE jobs you've personally created, so I'm going to assume that like your 'inventing career', your employer and entrepreneur credentials are also non-existent.

Sometimes, "jobs created" aren't directly hires, but an overall increase in economic activity.

That being said, while I would be somewhat more circumspect than locked, his is basically correct in most of his assertions.

In particular, your claim about all property being owned by the government. The right to be inviolate in the ownership of private property is (was) one of the very basic principles on which this country was founded. Your belief that "it's the government's" marks you as something other than what you claim to be, on an historical basis.

And, FYI, I've probably directly created at least 20 jobs or careers for people over the years. Currently, primarily because of the BS that "government" requires, I provide jobs for three other people directly, but allow hundreds of others to profit economically.

I could easily increase that ... but the BS and taxes I'd have to pay has made me ask the question "why?", as the ratio of personal benefit versus hassle and return simply isn't worth it. Therefore the overall economy suffers reduced economic activity because of excessive government intervention into the process.

I find it pretty funny, too, that so many insist that adding an additional tax burden will "help" the economy, as in this will somehow increase economic activity. It's the same people who wanted to increase the cost of gasoline in order to reduce its use. In that case, they recognize that taxes have a negative effect on the activity or product being taxed, yet in this case, they insist it will do the exact opposite.

Magical thinking at its finest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Remember, the Democrats would accept a "deal" wherein the debt limit is raised, thus avoiding default. The Republicans would not. All else is just details. I therefore suggest that we start calling this "the Republican Default of 2011".

Which is exactly the political effect that Obama wishes to incur.

Political brinkmanship at the expense of the nation as a whole.

I believe that many (most) liberals - including Obama - have zero understanding of the economy, or where "money" actually comes from. They seem to believe that just because they've always been able to "find the money", that they always will be able to "find the money".

Reality will likely teach them some cold hard facts.

But probably not. It will then be the fault of those "cold, hard Republicans and rich bastards" who will likely be hunted down, tarred and feathered.

That will certainly help the economy. Eat the seed-corn, and burn the crops that feed everyone to teach those bastards a lesson! And it will teach them a lesson, but not one that will do a damn thing to help you, or anyone else who depends on the government for support or subsistence.

Grasshopper, meet ant.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 7/24/2011 9:40:41 AM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 9:46:09 AM

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quote:

Political brinkmanship at the expense of the nation as a whole.

I believe that many (most) liberals - including Obama - have zero understanding of the economy, or where "money" actually comes from. They seem to believe that just because they've always been able to "find the money", that they always will be able to "find the money".

Reality will likely teach them some cold hard facts.

But probably not. Eat the seed-corn, and burn the crops that feed everyone to teach those bastards a lesson!

Grasshopper, meet ant.

And this applies equally to Republicans and apparently, House leadership. Cut taxes and the money will just be there. But for 30 years, more excuses about why it isn't there, as the debt continues to balloon. And that's their "plan" now---kick it down the road ten years, with a few cuts, and the magic money will just appear. Meanwhile, we'll just borrow more of it.

Starve the beast...sound familiar? But they don't...they just live on more and more taxpayer credit.

Cuts will have to be made, yes, and to the big three, yes. That STILL won't balance the budget, let alone start to address the debt. It's going to take raising taxes as well. On everyone, yes, including the wealthy.

You could eliminate ALL discretionary spending and eliminate medicare completely---and you STILL wouldn't have a balanced budget. You could eliminate all discretionary spending and completely cut social security--and you STILL wouldn't have a balanced budget. You could slash defense, social security, medicare, medicaid, and discretionary spending by a third--and you STILL wouldn't have a balanced budget. You could eliminate all discretionary spending and slash defense spending 80%--and you STILL wouldn't have a balanced budget.

Spending cuts alone are NOT going to do this! The House is in Disneyland. Spending cuts alone, even as severely overstated as above, as NOT going to balance the budget. Plans to rely on cuts alone, even severe ones, are going to STILL leave us with climbing debt, year after year after year.

Argue about what KIND of revenue increases, which taxes, on what, on whom, fine. Eliminate the Bush tax cuts--for everyone. Add a VAT. Raise payroll taxes a half a percent (after eliminating the one year cut). Because without revenue increases---and not the fantasy "Oh we'll just grow our way out of a $1.27 trillion deficit" (let alone reducing the debt)--debt will continue to grow, year after year, and interest rates and inflation in its wake.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: Financial Reality - 7/24/2011 9:48:34 AM

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As you point out, the amount of taxes isn't the issue.

Spending is.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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