"Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy"

"Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 11:16:24 AM)
"Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" quote: In an interview on MSNBC’s Hardball Monday evening, tenther Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) admitted that he is using the threat of a catastrophic default to extort the nation into rewriting the Constitution to force a permanent era of conservative governance: quote: CHRIS MATTHEWS: How many days do you think we have, on the outside, to get this debt ceiling through before we have a problem? How many days? LEE: I don’t know, maybe ten days. MATTHEWS: Okay, in ten days you want to change the United States Constitution by two-thirds vote in both houses? That’s what you’re demanding. LEE: Yes. If possible we can’t change the Constitution just in Congress but we can submit it to the states. Let the states fight it out. MATTHEWS: And you think you’re being reasonable by saying you want a two-thirds vote in the House, which is Republican, and in the Senate which is Democrat. You want the Democratic Senate, by a two-thirds vote, to pass a constitutional amendment or you want the house to come down? LEE: Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying and I’ve been saying this for six months. Lee’s proposed amendment makes it functionally impossible to raise taxes by imposing a two-thirds supermajority requirement — a provision closely modeled after the California anti-tax amendment that blew up that state’s finances. It would also require America to return to 1966 spending levels — spending cuts that are so steep they would have made every single one of Ronald Reagan’s budgets unconstitutional. If Lee’s proposed cuts were imposed across the federal budget, every single senior would lose one quarter of their Social Security and Medicare benefits, and that’s just the beginning. Because Lee wants to write these draconian cuts into the Constitution, the People will lose their power to overrule these cuts by electing different leaders. So Lee wants to rewrite our Constitution to that the American people must always live under conservative governance, regardless of who they elect, and he’s got a simple plan to force his colleagues in Congress to make this happen. That’s a mighty nice economy we’ve got here, it would be a shame if Mike Lee had to break it. I agree with the commenter to this story who wrote: quote: This is like trying to fight against a suicide bomber. It is hopeless. If the opponent will not listen to reason, and does not care what the outcome of his/her actions might be, and acts only according to ideological beliefs, then what chance does one have to convince or defeat him/her?

FirmhandKY -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 11:19:11 AM)
So, I take it you are against a Balanced Budget Amendment? [:)] Firm

farglebargle -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 11:23:38 AM)
Why create more Amendments when the Government doesn't bother obeying the ones that we have?

Real0ne -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 11:32:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Why create more Amendments when the Government doesn't bother obeying the ones that we have? bingo! everything I hate to say needs to be wiped out all the way to the first 10 amendments and they need to be properly understood as the quasi, or mutual confederation between the 1) people, 2) state, 3) federal as was or should have been the intent. Not the bastardized version of the fucking priests in black grim reaper robes that took the law OUT of the hands of the people and put it solely in their own. The people have the final say in or should have the final say in the law as was designed in the constitution, not these fucking government appointed BAR thugs

Termyn8or -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 7:38:02 PM)
RealO, really it doesn't matter. Under AMJ they can do things that even Saddam wouldn't consider, and they can because of force. But let's tak about Constitutional amendments for a moment. Now the sheeple have a perfectly good explanaition for this in their own minds, but let me put forth the question. Why was prohibition an amendment ? In 1920 we were not yet under AMJ, and due to Constitutional restraints, no such laws could escape Constitutional scrutiny. Congress could've enacted a law quite easily but opponents would've been in court the next day. Whether the President would've signed it is anyone's guess. Who cares. But that was important. It warranted an amendment right ? Well so did the Titles of Nobility act, which through research I have found, unfortunately, was not ratified. The equal rights amendment was not a normal bill, it could not be because it could be fought on Constitutional grounds. People knew how to read back then. But all this is bullshit. An amendment that makes them only spend what they take in will affect the military budget. They were hoping to be able to tell what you had for dinner a month ago if you stepped on this sensor or some shit, or be able to track you more effectively through carrying currency (don't laugh MFs) and shit like that. They wouldn't be able to spy as well, and that is paramount. They must remain in power and they feel the threat because they know that they do not operate in the best interest of the people and they know that it is not only our right, but our duty to alter or abolish them. They know this and they know that some us know this. More and more with each passing year I might add. So they pull our teeth and put them into their own mouths. Thaty's what that fucking money is for. Notice that certain spending cannot be cut, even if every retiree dies of cat food poisoning and there is noone left to vote for their fucking sorry asses. THEY must be secure. According to Jefferson, we are about 130 years late on the next revolution. T^T

Musicmystery -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 7:50:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So, I take it you are against a Balanced Budget Amendment? [:)] Firm You can't balance the budget NOW. How do you figure an Amendment will magically change that? I swear. You guys fricking believe in fairies. More magic money.

slvemike4u -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 7:53:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So, I take it you are against a Balanced Budget Amendment? [:)] Firm Yes ,and vehemently so....no responsible government would commit itself to such restrictive lunacy.Is not the full faith and credit of the United States of America actually something of value.....you would deny this administration and every following administration the use of such a valued commodity.....simply because you feel it is,currently overused ?What sort of lunacy is that? Why was that not enacted when Bush was running two wars off the books....How would we have bankrolled WWII were the administration of FDR operating under such an amendment ?

Termyn8or -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 8:06:13 PM)
"You can't balance the budget NOW. How do you figure an Amendment will magically change that? " I need a new printer and I don't buy anything but laser printers. I have bills, among them the electric bill. Without electricity I can print nothing. So where does the money go ? Electricity now, printer later. Sure, they will take from everyone but themselves and their buddies, but that will show their true identity. Thieves. It will not happen. Too many foxes guarding the henhouse. T^T

TreasureKY -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 8:43:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Why was that not enacted when Bush was running two wars off the books....How would we have bankrolled WWII were the administration of FDR operating under such an amendment ? Most balanced budget amendment proposals have contained an exception for times of war or national emergency.

slvemike4u -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 8:45:19 PM)
So most of these proposals recognize right up front that they are pure lunacy and need to come with trap door outs? Than why amend the damm constitution....are there any other amendments that come with exceptions?

Musicmystery -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 8:49:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u So most of these proposals recognize right up front that they are pure lunacy and need to come with trap door outs? Yes. quote: Than why amend the damm constitution....are there any other amendments that come with exceptions? Because without any actual solutions, they need the theater for 2012.

Owner59 -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 8:57:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So, I take it you are against a Balanced Budget Amendment? [:)] Firm Yup,not on your terms and not with a gun to our head.This could have been done months ago. This playing russian roulette with our prosperity, was planned. There`s a lot of evidence that conservatives aren`t as concerned with our nation`s well being as they are with forcing and imposing their agenda on America. If they can`t do that through the normal means,ie elections,voting,referendum and you know,democracy.....why should we let them hold our nation`s economy hostage? Your ideas should be sold on their merits,not by coercion. This isn`t leadership.This is bully-boy crap. If this thing goes south,you cons are going to pay big in Nov. But that you couldn`t give a shit is well noted.

FirmhandKY -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 9:28:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Yes ,and vehemently so....no responsible government would commit itself to such restrictive lunacy. Wikipedia: Balanced-budget provisions have been added to the constitutions of most U.S. states, the Basic Law of Germany and the Swiss Constitution. It is often proposed that a balanced-budget rule be added to the national United States Constitution. Most balanced-budget provisions make an exception for times of war or national emergency, or allow the legislature to suspend the rule by a supermajority vote. ... Every US state other than Vermont has some form of balanced budget amendment; the precise form varies. Firm

Musicmystery -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 9:29:47 PM)
AND the exemptions mike mentioned don't apply to states. Unless one of them is going to war soon...

FirmhandKY -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 9:30:07 PM)
FR: More, later, or tomorrow (or the next day). It's bedtime. Firm

slvemike4u -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 9:34:40 PM)
Are you suggesting there is little difference between running a state and running the country.Where does the state go in times of emergency or natural disasters.I have already addressed my feelings as far as amending the Constitution in such a manner,if it needs exceptions than it does not belong in there....exceptions have away of becoming political footballs,and can only lead to another layer of deal making and arm twisting in times of emergency....besides one of the basic purposes of the Fed is to see to the future of the country,at times that mean engaging in activities which by their bery nature will benefit future Americans...why is it not right and proper that some debt shall be passed onto those generation.....and they in turn are responsible for future projects,again passing down debt. That is how it works.

TreasureKY -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 9:36:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Than why amend the damm constitution....? I'm not sure an amendment would do any good, but this is an interesting read with one possible "why" as an answer to you. A Symbolic Balanced Budget Amendment

slvemike4u -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 9:42:41 PM)
Treasure,I am not blowing you or this article off...but it is 12:30 on the east coast...and you sent me a link to a 29 page doc.....lol.i I have a 6:30 wake up in the morning...I will try to remember to read it tomorrow,and get back to you in a PMshould you not hear from me feel free to drop me a line with a friendly reminder. I don't see myself being convinced...mostly due to reasons I have already stated,especially where some,I repeat some,dent is right and proper to pass on but I will read it I promise

rulemylife -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 10:04:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So, I take it you are against a Balanced Budget Amendment? [:)] Firm I think more against foolish Republican posturing when everyone knows the debt ceiling has to be, and will be, raised.

BitaTruble -> RE: "Change the Constitution - or I will destroy the economy" (7/26/2011 10:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY So, I take it you are against a Balanced Budget Amendment? [:)] Firm More against the idea that the ends justify the means. I'd like to see an actual bill before I pass judgement on whether I'm for or against it. I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides of the issue and those are what we should be discussing. Lee isn't making it any easier to have necessary conversations with his stance and it should be remembered he is but one man.

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