RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 12:28:12 PM)

still way short.



blacksword404 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 12:43:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

still way short.


It would get us that AAA rating back. And would jump start getting our house in order.



mnottertail -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 1:15:12 PM)

I dont see how that would happen... I'm listening though.

Unless the  cut across the board by 10% (140,000,000,000) is accompanied by a 140,000,000,000 tax increase (which isn't 10% of current revenues).



popeye1250 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 1:15:51 PM)

"Hey Hey, Ho Ho, Barak Obama has got to go! Hey Hey..."



lockedaway -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 1:17:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

"Treasury prices rose on Monday, pushing yields back down toward October levels, as investors pulled funds out of stocks and most commodities and sought the liquidity and safe-haven status of the U.S. debt market after the countrys credit rating was downgraded."

QED




Now all we need is Moodys.  I don't think that will happen but....maybe.  The question is what good could come from it all?  I guess the first question is how you would define "good".



mnottertail -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 1:17:40 PM)

Hey Hey Ho Ho send the house to Kokomo.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 3:02:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

"Treasury prices rose on Monday, pushing yields back down toward October levels, as investors pulled funds out of stocks and most commodities and sought the liquidity and safe-haven status of the U.S. debt market after the countrys credit rating was downgraded."

QED




Now all we need is Moodys.  I don't think that will happen but....maybe.  The question is what good could come from it all?  I guess the first question is how you would define "good".



There is no "bad" in the Treasury market (yet). The good that will come from it is finally addressing entitlement spending and SS, if the super-Congress does its job. And if 2012 goes the way its expected to it also spells the end of Obamacare.



slvemike4u -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 3:51:09 PM)

How about addressing revenues willbur,your way is a three legged stool.....no balance.



outhere69 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 5:11:48 PM)

Yeah, look at all those slackers that pay no taxes! It's all their fault!! Raise 'em high, they do nothing for the economy!!

Oops. My bad. They pay payroll taxes along with sales taxes.



blacksword404 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 6:33:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont see how that would happen... I'm listening though.

Unless the  cut across the board by 10% (140,000,000,000) is accompanied by a 140,000,000,000 tax increase (which isn't 10% of current revenues).


The ratio might need to be changed to something that be sustained long term. They want to see 4 trillion in cuts so let's give it to them. I liked that one percent a year plan. Less jarring and no room for argument on what to cut. Government is so inefficient they could likely find 5 % if they tried.



Marini -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 9:28:52 PM)

We would ALL be so much better off, if we did not have Social Security and social security was privatized and invested in the stock market.
[8|]



lockedaway -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 9:35:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

We would ALL be so much better off, if we did not have Social Security and all of our futures for retirement were in the stock market!!!


I don't know where you are going with that post at all.  Social Security is money YOU paid in and was supposed to be safeguarded and paid back to you.  I don't think there is anyone on this board that doesn't believe that the social security fund wasn't fucked over and perverted and that it should have been left alone. 

But you think you are going to retire on social security????  Really?  Does anyone know what the maximum is you can receive on Social Security?  I may be wrong but I thought it was $2,000.00.  If you think you are going to retire ANYWHERE in the U.S. on $2,000.00 per month, you are far more than just idealistic.  Oh sure...maybe if you have a 800 sq. ft place out around.....say.....Lukenbach, Tx.  God help you if you need to get to a hospital, however.

For anyone in their early 40's....by the way.....don't expect to receive social security until you are in your mid 70's.  I hope that doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.



Marini -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 9:41:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

We would ALL be so much better off, if we did not have Social Security and all of our futures for retirement were in the stock market!!!


I don't know where you are going with that post at all.  Social Security is money YOU paid in and was supposed to be safeguarded and paid back to you.  I don't think there is anyone on this board that doesn't believe that the social security fund wasn't fucked over and perverted and that it should have been left alone. 

But you think you are going to retire on social security????  Really?  Does anyone know what the maximum is you can receive on Social Security?  I may be wrong but I thought it was $2,000.00.  If you think you are going to retire ANYWHERE in the U.S. on $2,000.00 per month, you are far more than just idealistic.  Oh sure...maybe if you have a 800 sq. ft place out around.....say.....Lukenbach, Tx.  God help you if you need to get to a hospital, however.

For anyone in their early 40's....by the way.....don't expect to receive social security until you are in your mid 70's.  I hope that doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.



My post is/was about investing money taken out of our paychecks and putting it into the stock market.
I take it, you think THAT is a great idea.

Don't you think I KNOW that money was "supposed to be safe-guarded" and protected for people when they got older?
What is your point?



lockedaway -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 9:55:06 PM)

Taking money out of your paycheck and investing it in the stock market IS a great idea IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE DOING!!!

I have a number of friends that have made fortunes in the stock market.  They read Barron's everyday, the Journal and they are able to read and understand all of the charts and graphs.  I cannot. 

I got my ass handed to me on a silver tray investing in Lucent Technology.  Well...fuck...certainly pharmaceuticals are safer, right?  I mean...everyone needs drugs, right?  Well...I never needed drugs until I invested in Pfizer.  I rode the fucking stock down and down and down and down and down for years before I dumped it. 

I invest in real estate.  I know what an apartment goes for and I know how much faster it will rent when it has a granite countertop, dishwasher and a nice tavertine backsplash.  A nice bathroom helps too.  And so I make money but I never make a killing....but I don't get my ass handed to me anymore either.

If you have the guts to make the BIG GAMBLE (and more importantly the brains) go for it.  You might strike it rich.  By the same token, however, you might end up suffering such a crippling loss that SlaveMike and LucyLastic look like success stories to you. 



Aylee -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 10:34:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

How about addressing revenues willbur,your way is a three legged stool.....no balance.


THREE-legged stool?

Those are actually rather balanced and have been being used for centuries.



tj444 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 11:11:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Taking money out of your paycheck and investing it in the stock market IS a great idea IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE DOING!!!

I have a number of friends that have made fortunes in the stock market.  They read Barron's everyday, the Journal and they are able to read and understand all of the charts and graphs.  I cannot. 

I got my ass handed to me on a silver tray investing in Lucent Technology.  Well...fuck...certainly pharmaceuticals are safer, right?  I mean...everyone needs drugs, right?  Well...I never needed drugs until I invested in Pfizer.  I rode the fucking stock down and down and down and down and down for years before I dumped it. 

Yeah, well its more than just reading charts and graphs, you have to know the rules and follow them to invest successfully. And if you are into something very fast moving like futures you have to have nerves of steel and be very disciplined. Sounds like you didnt have a trailing stop loss order on your stock, which should have kept to from losing too much money...

I remember telling my brother not to buy a certain stock. It was a drug company also with a certain breakthru for a certain disease, so there was a bit of hype/buzz around it but it was way too high priced and yet he went and bought it anyway. I was right, not too long after he bought it the stock dropped quite a bit, not sure if he rode it all the way down or not but thats what most people tend to do.. and he is an accountant & also a lawyer.. ah, well...



blacksword404 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/8/2011 11:54:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

We would ALL be so much better off, if we did not have Social Security and social security was privatized and invested in the stock market.
[8|]


Well when you get to retirement age we will see what you actually have. Even though you keep paying for it, it's not likely to be there for you.



Owner59 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/9/2011 12:09:03 AM)

Yes it will.

Stop trying to scare people.

It`s reckless and mean.



blacksword404 -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/9/2011 12:57:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Yes it will.

Stop trying to scare people.

It`s reckless and mean.


And seeing how these politicians work, it will be reality.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating for first time (8/9/2011 9:29:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

We would ALL be so much better off, if we did not have Social Security and all of our futures for retirement were in the stock market!!!


I don't know where you are going with that post at all.  Social Security is money YOU paid in and was supposed to be safeguarded and paid back to you.  I don't think there is anyone on this board that doesn't believe that the social security fund wasn't fucked over and perverted and that it should have been left alone. 

But you think you are going to retire on social security????  Really?  Does anyone know what the maximum is you can receive on Social Security?  I may be wrong but I thought it was $2,000.00.  If you think you are going to retire ANYWHERE in the U.S. on $2,000.00 per month, you are far more than just idealistic.  Oh sure...maybe if you have a 800 sq. ft place out around.....say.....Lukenbach, Tx.  God help you if you need to get to a hospital, however.

For anyone in their early 40's....by the way.....don't expect to receive social security until you are in your mid 70's.  I hope that doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.



Other than being used as a political football I dont believe that SS was fucked over or perverted. It has been run remarkably well for a government agency. And for anyone in their early 40s, if they EVER expected to retire in their mid or even late sixties, it wasnt from what SS would pay. In 20 years life expectancy for someone in their 40s today and surviving till their mid 60s will be well in to their 90s. Expecting to live as long without working as they worked in their most productive years can't happen.

Also with the boomers gone there will be tremendous demand for workers and the pay for those who are actually working and not just "retired in place" will keep increasing far more than today, where its basically cost of living increases.

I think Marini was being sarcastic about investing SS in the stock market. HORRIBLE idea, probably the worst position that GWB ever took. If the investing is done by the individual they are bound to fuck it up. People overall are terrible investors. If its done by the SSA the investment board would become the most powerful body in the world. The social engineering possibilities of their asset allocation policies is enormous. (OF course this would have been a bigger problem in the past when surplus were larger, but in 25 years or so the surplus will be rebuilidng and will become a major issues again). You also have the problem of inflation in the stock market itself. When you have all of that additional money chasing the same GDP producers, the boom and bust cycles would be amplified.

Then there is the problem of who bears the risk. If you have a 30% market drop that directly impacts the safety net retirement program you know they will be bailed out. That passes the risk onto future generations of taxpayers. This is a bit math dense but is a good intro to the risk transfer issue if youre really a pension policy wonk:

http://users.erols.com/jeremygold/prc/pprisktransfer.pdf



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