RE: roiting in croydon and penge

RE: roiting in croydon and penge (Full Version)

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Iamsemisweet -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:11:47 PM)
quote: You seem to think that people in the UK don't know what happens in their own country. quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Again, whatever. I think most Americans (even, gasp, underprivileged ones) watch and read plenty of news sources. I think they just don't care that much what happens in other countries. Who's talking about other countries? You seem to think that people in the UK don't know what happens in their own country. I wasn't suggesting people in the US ought to know who Duggan is. Again, reading comprehension. I used to have some statistics on newspaper subscriptions per capita in different countries, though I've no idea where I found them or where I'd have saved them. The US was right down low for the developed world. Statistics on newspaper subscriptions? That is what you base your bold statement that Americans have an aversion to news sources on? That is really, really funny. Yep, those damn Americans just don't read the paper anymore. Good thing they have televisions, radios, the internet (newspapers are even on the internet!), magazines, etc. Thank god you are around to tell me what I think people in the UK know and don't know. What I believe, and still believe, is what I said before. There are probably plenty of people involved in these riots that don't know who Duggan is. There are probably plenty more who don't give a fuck.

LadyConstanze -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:12:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig First it's just hooligans, now it's organized crime? Whatever, believe whatever you want. It's your country, flush it down the tubes if you want. Well, first we were only talking about London, now it happens in other places and seems to be fairly organized (as you pointed out), you believe in the mystical anarchists orchestrating this, most of the people aren't that interested in anarchy but in getting a lot of goods for free - what is more likely? Pretty clever though, using the chavs to distract the cops by sending them to loot the big but cheaper chains. Again, life footage, and the boys called that they are on the way back, our friend got injured but not seriously, car badly scratched up... I leave you to your mythical anarchists, while I put the kettle on and get the first aid kit out and run a bath. Happens in Salford too... I doubt "The Edge" will become edgy and I keep the local live footage on

PeonForHer -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:13:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze OK, I just remember that in Germany they had the Chaos days in the late 80's, punks and anarchists gathering in a town and wrecking havoc - well that was what they planned but the cops had the water cannons and tear gas ready and people were flying through the air. Interesting enough a good report from Manchester, most of the shop owners said just pure greed, and they seem to have organized vehicles, so not just shops being looted by your common track bottomed scum, but actually cars pulling up, being loaded with looted goods and driving off... For some odd reason I don't think those are political... They aren't political, Lady C. Not in terms of motivation. Honestly, I say: Forget about motivation - that doesn't matter. It's only effect that matters - and, here, it's the effect of the authorities not being able to stop such things. That is the problem. Yes, sure, water cannons and rounds of rubber bullets may have worked in Germany in those Chaos days, when punks and anarchists 'gathered'. But here, they're not gathering, as such. They've charged, burned, looted, and dispersed, all quick as a flash. But more fundamentally: we don't have a social culture here that's like most places, even in the Western world - even on the Continent. We're not used to seeing military-style behaviour by police forces - not here, not on the British mainland. It's a massive political and tactical risk to, say, post armed police or, worse, soldiers around the worst areas of London or Birmingham. The mere sight of that kind of activity could spark even more violence. And if it doesn't work, and because the state here isn't set up for it and hasn't the resources for it . . . things could get unbelievably ugly. I read tonight that there are actually no vehicles armed with water-cannons in England. In Northern Ireland, there are six. But it's coming up to the republican/unionist marching season there and they'd be reluctant to lend us even those paltry six big, slow vehicles that could never chase lots of bunches of skinny youths around shopping streets, anyway. It's this kind of reality that we're up against, here.

frazzle -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:13:14 PM)
These arent protests, they are gangs of criminals looting, which is a different thing entirely.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:13:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Statistics on newspaper subscriptions? That is what you base your bold statement that Americans have an aversion to news sources on? That is really, really funny. You are getting confused between an example and a basis. As for what you believe, honestly? I've stopped caring. It's ok. You're pixels, nothing more.

Arpig -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:14:00 PM)
quote: There are probably plenty of people involved in these riots that don't know who Duggan is. Not at all likely quote: There are probably plenty more who don't give a fuck. pretty much guaranteed

VaguelyCurious -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:14:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: frazzle These arent protests, they are gangs of criminals looting, which is a different thing entirely. They are now, but let's not forget that this spiralled from a peaceful protest originally. Protests spiralled into riots. Which is what I said in the first place.

Arpig -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:17:43 PM)
And the important question is why they spiralled. But it's one nobody wants to address.

frazzle -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:18:18 PM)
The protest did not spiral into a riot. People who had nothing to do with the quiet march, used it as an excuse for criminal behaviour.

Arpig -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:19:41 PM)
It wasn't a quiet march. It was a non-violent march. One that was ready to explode. And it did. Why were they so ready to explode?

VaguelyCurious -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:20:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: frazzle The protest did not spiral into a riot. People who had nothing to do with the quiet march, used it as an excuse for criminal behaviour. That's a question of semantics. Either way, my point was that if it had remained a protest centred only in Tottenham nobody outside the capital would have known much about Duggan - there was a couple of inches about him in the Times, nothing more. But the protest changed (however you want to phrase it) into a riot, and as that was reported so was Duggan's death. People will have heard of him.

frazzle -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:22:52 PM)
Arpig, when you have any clue about the UK, ill start taking your comments seriously.

popularDemand -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:22:53 PM)
anyway, I thought this thread was about roiting? pD

NuevaVida -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:23:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I wasn't answering with regard to only the rioters. For me it's a fundamental principle - do we speak up when we think there is wrong doing, or do we close our doors and watch sitcoms on TV? I don't think we necessarily do either. What we necessarily do is work out, as fast as we can, how to stop said wrong-doing. If you think that speaking up about the moral failings of these rioters will expedite that - well, I think you're wrong. They don't care about your moral view, or mine, or that of anyone else. If speaking is of any help at all, it should be directed at those who do, or should, care. That is, the government and its agents. These are the people who we pay a lot of money in part to keep us safe. Again, I was talking about speaking up in general, which I thought your original post was about. I agree that speaking up to the rioters doesn't do squat. But your earlier remark was about finger wagering regarding wrongdoing. I understood that as a general statement, which was the basis for my reply. So we speak up to our governments, media, each other, etc.

tj444 -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:24:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig At this point tj, lives aren't really in danger on a scale that the government cares about. They have flooded the streets with cops and order has been mostly enforced. There is, according to the media, very little going on tonight in comparison. They seem to be doing things about right. The issue isn't really how to put down the riots themselves, they know how to do that and they are doing ti pretty much by the book. The issue is how to prevent the next ones. to shut down the next one, you shut down all communication as soon as it starts to prevent it from continuing and fanning out. The govt monitors communication, there is software that scans for certain words, they can go thru what they have for this riot and throw the leaders and anyone that encouraged the riot and looting in jail for conspiracy and they can sit there for a decade or so.. its a lot harder to organize the next riot from jail... And i somehow dont see how the public will have much or any sympathy for them..

Arpig -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:25:16 PM)
And frazzle, when you have a clue about anything. i'll start taking your comments seriously.

Moonhead -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:26:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popularDemand anyway, I thought this thread was about roiting? pD No, it's about Rotrings: those draughting pens that went out when cadcam came in?

Politesub53 -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig And the important question is why they spiralled. But it's one nobody wants to address. Ive addressed it on the other thread. Its no more than opportunistic criminality, mostly kids, many under 16. This has nothing to do with deprivation, police brutality, spending cuts or anything else. It`s just wanton violence.

frazzle -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:28:39 PM)
short on meds again????

Arpig -> RE: roiting in croydon and penge (8/9/2011 4:28:58 PM)
Is that your solution? No attempt to deal with the underlying causes of the discontent?

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