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RE: There was a plane! - 8/20/2011 5:04:37 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		This one too!


http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/a-response-to-chip-b...



Response to Chip Berlet’s “Toxic to Democracy: Conspiracy Theories, Demonization, and Scapegoating” By Peter Phillips and Mickey Huff

Media Freedom Foundation/Project Censored


In his recent essay “Toxic to Democracy,” Political Research Associates (PRA) Senior Analyst Chip Berlet uses the very same methods of demonization by association that he so strongly opposes.

Berlet convolutes historical context, ideological differences, and progressives vis-à-vis extreme conservative/neo-con/libertarians in a diatribe of meaninglessness.

Berlet lumps valid academic research on State Crimes Against Democracy (SCADs) in with anti-Semitic jingoism and far right wing extremism.

He suggests that any research that even implies some sort of conspiracy is dangerous and suspect, seemingly forgetting a long list of proven US and other government conspiracies (SCADs) including: Operation Mockingbird, COINTELPRO, Gulf of Tonkin “Incident,” October Surprise, CIA-Contra Dark Alliance, Iran-Contra, WMDs and Iraq Invasion, and the overthrow of governments in Iran, Guatemala, Haiti, Chile, Greece, Indonesia, Panama, and many others.

Outrageously, Berlet categorizes progressive intellectuals such as Peter Dale Scott, Michael Parenti, David Ray Griffin, Michel Chossudovsky, and by innuendo the two of us, as dangerous conspiracists.

He uses a straw person technique by positing former LaRouche analyst Webster Tarpley, and the Church of God Evangelistic Association founder David J. Smith in the same category as the progressive intellectuals listed above.

At the end of his essay, Berlet attempts to distinguish between people who do power structure research such as G. William Domhoff—who served on Peter Phillips’ dissertation committee regarding the Bohemian Grove in 1994— along with Holly Sklar, former PRA associate and author of a study on the Trilateral Commission compared to those who see elite networks as potential places of planning for self serving advantages.

Of course, elites conspire to maximize their power and profits whenever possible. Corporate boardrooms are rife with such activity and the resulting actions/PR manipulations—as recently evidenced by British Petroleum.

That does not mean one should simply dismiss researching the lies and manipulations of the powerful because it might imply a conspiracy, especially when the lies fail to explain how a 47-story steel frame building (WTC Building 7) collapsed in its own footprint at freefall speed on September 11, 2001, or how a scientific, peer-reviewed, academic journal discovered unreacted nano-thermite in the dust from the World Trade Centers (The Open Chemical Physics Journal).

While we have solid respect for the long tradition of research into extreme right wing and racist organizations for which PRA is well known, we are most dismayed by Chip Berlet’s reactionary dismissal of academic research into conspiracies/State Crimes Against Democracy by long time progressive intellectuals.


Peter Phillips is a Professor of Sociology at Sonoma State University and President of Media Freedom Foundation/Project Censored


Mickey Huff is an Associate Professor of History at Diablo Valley College and Director of Project Censored/Media Freedom Foundation

See Berlet’s essay “Toxic to Democracy” at http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/toxic2democracy/




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/20/2011 5:08:14 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 781
RE: There was a plane! - 8/20/2011 5:57:26 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
Rule,

You do know that plane debris was found of all 4 planes, right?

Yep, but that is not evidence that any planes were there. It merely is evidence that plane debris was there. Some of that plane debris I could transport there in my trouser pockets. For other debris I would require a larger trouser - but that also is doable. In some cases I know exactly who put the debris there; in one other case I am pretty sure who put some of the debris there. And how.

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 782
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 7:20:19 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

I know Anax that's why I read his (?) posts for the entertainment value not for the facts.





quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

hey its a matter of record!

the tractators (hired by the lybians) were busted for sucking it under and disturbing the peace in china.

this is the official dig photo;








What you really have here is a stab at how fucking corrupt the courts are and how easily it is for the gubafia to get away with anything.  They do not hesitate to murder presidents they certainly could give a fuck about you or I.

now there it some thing very important for you to keep in mind about out little exchange here.  You took one look at that picture and said WTF as seen in you post.

I totally agree with you.  Firstly jet engines do not burrow underground.  That would require speed far faster than a bullet.

Finally the second you use your own brain you will become a conspiracy theorist in the eyes of the gubafia. 

Its the first rule of being an owned slave; "thou shalt not use thine brain".  (couple kick ass movies on this are "return of the planet of the apes 2011, and idiocracy")  *pay particular attention to the part with the *Dildozer*  LOL

You may not be aware but you stepped over that line in this thread.  You used your brain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Okay you've posted a pic, yay you! Thing is there is nothing there that proves the engine (assuming it's an airplane engine) is from one of the planes from 9/11. I can't quite decide whether you are completely delusional or just painfully naive....yeah completely delusional sounds good.


For that you must be punished!!  Now Ron and the spammer did the same but I wont get into that LOL

Anytime you disagree with anything the gubafia did regarding 911 or any other SCAD you inherit the label conspiracy theorist. 

The picture of that engine can be found on literally every debunker site out here as an explanation for flt 93.  It is claimed by the gubafia to be a picture of an engine from flt 93, and it is claimed by the gubafia to have burrowed into the ground.  That is why the convenient addition of earth moving equipment.

The truly sick fucking part of it is that photo is a bona fide exhibit submitted to the court in the mousoui case. 

They used that picture in court, you can see the government exhibit stamp and the exhibit number on the bottom in yellow/orange.

Now you sinned the greatest sin, you used your brain and took one look at that and CORRECTLY said "there is nothing there that proves the engine (assuming it's an airplane engine) is from one of the planes from 9/11".

Those labelled with being a "conspiracy theorist" agree with you.  That was blatantly obvious to you.  Yet it was used in court against mousaui.  The number on the bottom of the picture matches the official record as you can see.

The gubafia has labelled anyone who thinks a "conspiracy theorist", "sovereign citizen", "christian fundie" etc.

quote:


United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui
Criminal No. 01-455-A

Prosecution Trial Exhibits Phase 1

P200060 Photograph of an airplane part found in the crater at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html



Here is another:



This shit just goes on and on adnauseum.

That was the pic used in court, here is the reality:




That is what gubafias do.  Think about that when you see these people pejoratively label someone a "conspiracy theorist".

You may be one too!





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 783
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 8:07:12 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site.

The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined.
The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 784
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 8:29:52 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site.

The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined.
The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.


now this I believe. It's a bit too much to expect me to believe RO's version - that the engine somehow managed to burrow its way all the way to China. It does however make sense that the engine of a plane going at top speed was deeply buried in the ground and had to be dug out.


_____________________________

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The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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Profile   Post #: 785
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 9:03:57 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site.

One engine does not an airplane make.

A buried engine merely is evidence that a buried engine was present at that location. It does not constitute evidence that a plane impacted the ground.

Anyone ever see that detective Colombo movie with the murdering magician? (Now You See Him (2/29/76))
Magician: "Think of a number".
Janitor: "I think of number four."
Magician: "Lift up the phone".
Janitor finds note under the phone with '4' written on it.

Perhaps I ought to write a book titled: "Everything I know I learned from watching Colombo movies".

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined.

So it was not pristine ground? How very convenient...

Let's see. Let us assume that the USA has a territorial area of one billion square kilometers. That makes one billion million square meters. Let us assume that the tampered area is the only tampered with area in the whole of the USA and that measures twenty thousand square metres. The chance that an airplane will impact this tampered area, supposing it does impact anywhere in the USA, thus is 20 000 / 1 billion millions = 20 / 1 000 billions = 1 in fifty billion. Mmm...

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.

Now pray explain the discrepancy. Why did not the second engine also bury itself into the earth? How did it get a whopping three hundred yards removed from the first engine? Was the wing span between them that large? Did it un-dig itself and conveniently on its two or twelve little legs stumble on another three hundred yards before deciding to die from heart-ache in that basin?

Some engines are good boys; others are embarrassments.

< Message edited by Rule -- 8/21/2011 9:05:11 AM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 786
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 9:04:27 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site.

The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined.
The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.


~sigh

so were these, no buried engine





be better off pretending you have me on ignore so you can post that stuff and have plausible deniability like jlf.  lol



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 787
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 9:09:04 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

A buried engine merely is evidence that a buried engine was present at that location. It does not constitute evidence that a plane impacted the ground.
Some engines are good boys; others are embarrassments.


that is the paramount argument, where the proverbial bear shits in the buckwheat after all.

Oh and btw there are pictures of that 30 ft yellow trailer out here that was hidden behind the bushes at the pentagon when the pole pics were taken too.  If it were not such a tragedy against humanity it would make a great comedy


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 788
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 10:18:13 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site.

The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined.
The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.


then you have the added problem of the sectional density of an engine compared to a bullet, in which the sectional density of a bullet is many many times that of an engine rotor and a 300 grain bullet at 2000+ ft/sec will only go in a little over a foot+ in sand.

Translated that means that the part of the rotor shown even if it hit perpendicular to the earth would be laying on top of the ground and the dirt beneath it blown to the side like a comet strike.

I digress

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 789
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 12:27:35 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site.

The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined.
The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.


~sigh

so were these, no buried engine





be better off pretending you have me on ignore so you can post that stuff and have plausible deniability like jlf.  lol




I don't know if the photos you are showing are of crashes on a site that had been previously stripmined as you did not say when and what crashes they are.
Most planes that crash attempt emergency landing procedures.
This one varied widely from that.
This one hit at a 40 degree, nose down inverted altitude at a speed of 563 mph (which is actually over 870 fps).

It appears my common sense is distubing you.
If my posts bother you, you are free to hide me.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 790
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:11:36 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
This one hit at a 40 degree, nose down inverted altitude at a speed of 563 mph (which is actually over 870 fps).

Prove it! Show us the plane! Preferably sticking nose first in the tampered ground with its tail pointing up into the air.

Where is the plane? Where is the plane? Where is your evi-den-ce?

You do not have any.

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 791
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:13:56 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

You do not have any.


What a coincidence neither do you. Sure you have lots of pictures but none of them show actual proof.

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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Profile   Post #: 792
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:19:44 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Of course I do not have evidence that a plane crashed there. That is because no plane ever crashed there. Duh!

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 793
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:22:27 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Are you certain that you are a natural slave? I expect higher cognitive functions from a genuine natural slave.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 794
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:24:11 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
What a coincidence neither do you. Sure you have lots of pictures but none of them show actual proof.

Thank you for agreeing that she does not have any evidence. Perchance you after all do have the higher cognitive function that I expect in a natural slave.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 795
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:28:02 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
What a coincidence neither do you. Sure you have lots of pictures but none of them show actual proof.

Thank you for agreeing that she does not have any evidence. Perchance you after all do have the higher cognitive function that I expect in a natural slave.



Okay my post was badly worded. What I meant was that you have yet to demonstrate any evidence at all. Lots of pictures yes evidence no. You really should look at my profile I don't claim to be any kind of slave at all. That you are claiming that of me only shows a lack of thoroughness on your part.


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
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Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 796
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:32:15 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Of course I do not have evidence that a plane crashed there. That is because no plane ever crashed there. Duh!



Quit putting words in my mouth you know damn well what I meant.

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 797
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:34:25 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
Lots of pictures yes evidence no.

You are very much mistaken. I have never presented any evidence, nor have I ever posted any picture(s).
Your false assertion shows a lack of thoroughness on your part.

So you are not a natural slave. Well, that affirms my suspicion that you might not be one, then.

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 798
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 1:35:33 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Of course I do not have evidence that a plane crashed there. That is because no plane ever crashed there. Duh!

Quit putting words in my mouth you know damn well what I meant.


(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 799
RE: There was a plane! - 8/21/2011 2:03:21 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Okay my post was badly worded. What I meant was that you have yet to demonstrate any evidence at all. Lots of pictures yes evidence no. You really should look at my profile I don't claim to be any kind of slave at all. That you are claiming that of me only shows a lack of thoroughness on your part.



Actually, Rule has never provided proof of anything, nothing but batshit crazy theories.

He even claims to have investigated every eyewitness and proved they all lied about what they said they saw concerning the impacts of the planes in the WTC and the Pentagon.

Which is a blatant lie on his part.



_____________________________

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You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 800
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