RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ?

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/3/2011 9:38:38 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

They aren't necessarily quite as ancient as is sometimes claimed, though.

I don't know what's sometimes claimed. Would the Bronze Age be ancient enough?

K.

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/3/2011 9:46:48 PM

FirstQuaker

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All cultures seem to have the same 4 stages, i.e. childhood, young men and women, married with children, and elders.
Most have some ceremony or tradition distinguishing them, i.e. confirmation, marriage, and so on.

Leave it to the Europeans to pervert this arraignment.

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/3/2011 10:00:23 PM

JanahX

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I dont see any problem with mothers dumping the kids with the dad, and seeing how far he gets finding "other maids"

< Message edited by JanahX -- 9/3/2011 10:01:01 PM >

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/3/2011 10:05:19 PM

Tantriqu

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Would the male equivalent of comparmentalising by age be the young rake, the father and the ill old man, i.e., The Dick, The Prick and the Sick?

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/4/2011 7:31:17 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

They aren't necessarily quite as ancient as is sometimes claimed, though.

I don't know what's sometimes claimed. Would the Bronze Age be ancient enough?

K.

For sure. The Indian triad you mention is at least that old. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be quite ancient enough for the type of Wiccan who likes to insist that there was a matriachal utopia worshipping a Mother Goddess before any Gods who stand up to piss were invented. They're keen to insist that the golden age was back in the stone age.
(Mind you, they also insist that there was some sort of holocaust which wiped out a prechristian matrichal pagan underground during the middle ages, and that's utter drivel as well...)

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/4/2011 10:30:56 AM

Aneirin

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Yeah, there are many systems of organised belief that claim what is impossible when that stuff is analysed under the cold light of science, but it is the science/religion question again verifiable facts as opposed to just belief. When belief becomes a religion, that is when I start to question, as in my understanding, a lot of bullshit starts to getting passed around and taken as the truth, because the religion says so, it is the/ their religion and religion is not to be questioned.

But of the various belief systems, there is some truth, and truth I take to have been created by observation, as observation is the same tool scientists use to arrive at their conclusions.

The construct of maid, mother and crone, I believe to be a concept based on observation of people, as look at the science of what each stage does to a female, the maid to mother especially, as what child birth does to a woman's body as well as her mind.

My understanding of the male, the triad is at least based on my observation, males are all children that suddenly have to mature fast, almost overnight when they suddenly realise they are responsible for another life, so two aspects are child and father, what seems to come later, is questionable, as is the father in some respects, as I believe what hinders the male, is that a new life does not change their body, only their understanding in some cases, but males remain children, as it is males like to play, and the only difference between child, youth and man, is the toys become bigger and more expensive. And what happens to toys......

Perhaps because a new life does not impinge on a male's life via having that life physically parasite off and damage their body, they are seen not to have a tighter bond with the offspring, whereas a new life is made of the host's flesh and blood.

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/4/2011 12:55:38 PM

Moonhead

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That sounds awfully like the sort of mysticism about menarche that was popular in feminist circles during the early '70s.

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/4/2011 6:22:10 PM

Aneirin

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Not mysticism, but observational fact, and I have never heard of Menache, nor am I interested in feminism beyond the need for both genders to be equal as was perhaps originally intended before religion was invented to make one gender more powerful than the other. Hey, if one does not have the wit or wiles to dominate another man, one can always fall back and feel good about themselves by dominating women, because religion promotes it at least in the majority of patriachal bullshit ideas. The need to dominate via law says more about the one who resorts to law than it does about anything else, weeds can be empowered, by adherence to such unnatural ideals.

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/5/2011 5:06:41 AM

Moonhead

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Menarche = starting to menstruate: the first cycle after she hits puberty.

No argument with any of the rest, sadly.

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RE: Maid, Mother, Crone ? - 9/5/2011 12:10:20 PM

FirstQuaker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Not mysticism, but observational fact, and I have never heard of Menache, nor am I interested in feminism beyond the need for both genders to be equal as was perhaps originally intended before religion was invented to make one gender more powerful than the other. Hey, if one does not have the wit or wiles to dominate another man, one can always fall back and feel good about themselves by dominating women, because religion promotes it at least in the majority of patriachal bullshit ideas. The need to dominate via law says more about the one who resorts to law than it does about anything else, weeds can be empowered, by adherence to such unnatural ideals.

Two things you should note -

First, I come from a matrilineal society, and women and men still have different roles, many of which were survival oriented, while there was never anything which prohibited women from hunting large animals or fishing offshore, (younger and older women without young children often come along) or men from raising the young children and doing the food preservation, (we certainly help when we are home) the reality, is these roles were pretty much delegated by necessity. Women who are pregnant or are nursing their babies are not up to the environment (nor are the children) we face when hunting or ocean fishing (though it is certainly better in today's world) and while I certainly can render oil, or pick berries (having learned from my mother,) a woman can do these things while caring for the younger members of the clan, while she certainly cannot take them bear or moose hunting or halibut fishing.

And second, dominating our women when they don't desire it, or in a manner contrary to our customs is a fool's errand., may as well try and dominate a brown bear for your amusement, as a woman who doesn't desire these attentions. Unless you like sleeping in your boat.

However your European society now uses all as cogs in a machine, so I suppose these differences are meaningless. but not only are not all men created equal, it is certain all women were not cut from the same hide either.

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