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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 1:53:06 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

If a community wants red-light cameras,it`s their right to have them.If they don`t,they have the right not to have them.


I woud be quite surprised if you could find one jurisdiction where the ciizens of a comunity have chosen to put in red light cameras.
They have been found to be illegal in more than a few jurisdictions her in california.
If one knows the law the red light tickets will have a 100% failure rate in court.

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 1:53:28 AM   
April425


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i believe i can offer some insight on this one.

long before one aspires to and reaches professional goals, at a young age, you find yourself needing to create, it's this drive, i believe that builds the burning desire to express, to hone your existing talents (and most find or learn that you're talented early on also) So it starts there. i never call myself an artist, it sounds so pretentious. even when it's your professional label. (i'm an art director) I love creating, i love seeking to make even greater expressions of merit, and that becomes a time when your awareness of the world has been increasing, and you feel inclined not to make "pretty pictures" but something meaningful.

although i don't believe i really became politically aware until art school (BFA)


in film & broadcast with those production values, the committee mentality, it's a great push for anybody w/ talent and vision to make/be a part of something extraordinary and see it through.

But i really do believe it starts early and without pretense in the very best of them.

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:02:02 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Art doesn't have a purpose. That's very much the point. If it has a purpose, it isn't art, it's craft.


Guernica...art or craft?

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:08:14 AM   
Arpig


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Well personally I'd say crap, but that's besides the point.

I'm assuming you are choosing Guernica because you think it has a purpose. What is that purpose?


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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:37:34 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Well personally I'd say crap, but that's besides the point.

I'm assuming you are choosing Guernica because you think it has a purpose. What is that purpose?




http://www.pbs.org/treasuresoftheworld/a_nav/guernica_nav/main_guerfrm.html

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:54:53 AM   
Arpig


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Thank you for providing me the perfect quote to illustrate my point.
quote:

"A painting is not thought out and settled in advance," said Picasso. "While it is being done, it changes as one's thoughts change. And when it's finished, it goes on changing, according to the state of mind of whoever is looking at it."
A piece of art may well be created with the intent to express a specific idea or thought or emotion, but it says something different to each viewer and at each viewing. Thus it serves a different purpose for each viewer, therefore it has no real purpose.

The artist may have had a purpose in creating it...make a political statement, make some money, paint something pretty, etc. ...but the artist has no control over what message it actually conveys to the viewer. So once it is completed, the piece itself has no purpose other than to exist for it's own sake.


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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 6:42:41 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Thus it serves a different purpose for each viewer, therefore it has no real purpose.


This statement would seem to be self contradictory.

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 8:48:51 AM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been wondering recently at what the purpose of art is, especially when I view so much art that seems to warn of problems that are set to or are rising in our midst. For example, the movie industry, entertainment though it is to most, the themes that some movies even blockbusters dwell on seem to be almost a warning in many respects. The book 1984 by George Orwell is being discussed in another thread on this forum and how the concepts in the book are becoming very real in our modern society. There are many other examples of would be entertainment instilling provoking thoughts, but the question is, is entertainment a vehicle for sublime public education ?


I wouldn't view the commercial movie industry as art. Independent films possibly, but, generally, movies with big budgets are not art and hence not a vehicle for public education.


Why not, does something cease to become artistic because someone has a lot of money to inject into a production, does Damien Hurst's production ; For the Love of God cease to become art because it cost £14 million to produce ? But what does money buy, well those artists involved in the advertising industry will tell you money buys visual appeal, the greater the visual impact the more likely one is to communicate their message, as most of us are attracted by what we see, and it is what we see that tells us much before we are told via audio or other forms of less demanding communication.

But to examine what might be going on within movies whilst we are being assaulted with the visual appeal that big money buys, for sure big money invested often begets big money returned in industry for that is the purpose of industry, the movie industry is a prime example, but again advertising tells us in order to reach out to the majority, visual appeal is so important and we all know pretty packaging attracts.

But entertainment, is it just something to entertain, or is it is a form of communication, what happens in our minds when we are sitting there relaxed enjoying the entertainment that movies are, are we just following the story whilst the visual appeal holds us in amazement, or is the artist that created the work effectively communicating their ideas ?

For example, the movie block buster, Avatar, cost shit loads to produce, I heard at the time the most so far, it made those that created the movie shit loads of money in profit, an industrial success, but to the consumer it was a visual feast, but what else came across in that movie besides the visual, a message ? If you felt something was trying to be communicated, you might have asked of what the producer was trying to convey and with Avatar, it is known the producer was promoting his thing, his personal issue, that of deforestation in the face of big business, he likened his artwork to the Amazon rain forest, another fern gully as critics have commented, but of those that received the message, did it make more people become aware of enviromental issues than there was before the movie ?

That is what I am trying to say, visual appeal it being a form of communication, is it being used to sell us ideas, and of those ideas, are we being influenced, educated even warned ? But there is a danger in what we are told by art, for it is possible because something happens in the movies and literature some might think as the movies portray fiction, fiction can never become fact, so we might miss out on the stupidly obvious, so art can also be a vehicle for misinformation, but who is it that is misinformed, the majority or the minority ?

But of artists, why is it the political inspires art so much, could it be artists as observers react to what their senses detect and there because of their need to communicate, do so via creation ?. But of art, the successful art, the art that is most known, what was the thought that instigated the art, for it is known many artists are propelled by what they feel in this world, many of whom I know create their best through the negative aspects of life that they experience, and when questioned on that fact, they say a small voice in a big world is never heard, but create something that challenges, and one might at last be heard, for everyone has something to say that can change the world.





< Message edited by Aneirin -- 9/15/2011 8:51:48 AM >


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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 11:26:54 AM   
kdsub


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I believe as usual you try and make too much of simple concepts. Art is just exactly as it is defined…”works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power".

There need be no other definition or purpose.

Now art may be used for other purposes but the art itself is as defined which is still up to the observer to judge its validity or worth.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/15/2011 11:27:53 AM >


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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 12:18:30 PM   
Aneirin


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Yeah, I suppose you are right, everything is what it is, no ulterior motive intended, that being artists just create products, a random idea in their minds and hopefully via the critics approval sell it just like another product for sale, art is therefore a consumable and nothing more.


Is life so dull ?



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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:11:28 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Is life so dull ?


How does appreciating something for its beauty or emotional power dull? I appreciate a lot of art without purchasing it. I envy artistic people...they often don't know how lucky they are.

If an artists wants to use their skill to make a protest poster the poster is still art to be appreciated even if you don't agree with the message.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/15/2011 2:13:47 PM >


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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:33:45 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yeah, I suppose you are right, everything is what it is, no ulterior motive intended, that being artists just create products, a random idea in their minds and hopefully via the critics approval sell it just like another product for sale, art is therefore a consumable and nothing more.


Is life so dull ?



Have you read The Role Of Art In The Age Of Mechanical Reproduction by Walter Benjamin?

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:42:41 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Is life so dull ?


How does appreciating something for its beauty or emotional power dull? I appreciate a lot of art without purchasing it. I envy artistic people...they often don't know how lucky they are.

If an artists wants to use their skill to make a protest poster the poster is still art to be appreciated even if you don't agree with the message.

Butch


I love art. I love attempting to create art. I have NEVER EVER worked on a piece or viewed art as a way to communicate some deeper meaning. It's there to be beautiful.

Flowers. They do not grow to make any sort of statement, they just are. The fact that they may serve some sort of purpose while they exist is not solely the reason they exist.


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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 2:52:23 PM   
Moonhead


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This is an opposition stance that's been around since the industrial revolution (or earlier), though: you're obviously in Oscar Wilde's camp ("All art is quite useless."), but there's plenty of artists (often rather good artists: Robert Stone and HG Wells are cases in point) who lean the other way.
The biggest part of the problem is probably those artists who wreck their art by trying to cram messages that they just don't have the chops to sustain into their work. Hence you get Ayn Rand's shitawful fiction, mind numbingly dull soviet science fiction films from the fifties, and Reefer Madness. The biggest problem seems to be a crude and simplistic didacticism: artists who can make an attempt to veil their messages, or treat them as an added layer to their work, rather than the whole point and more important than any other component do a lot better. Even stuff I find ideologically loathsome like HP Lovecraft's horror stories, Yeats' poetry or Reifenstahl's films can suspend my objections while I encounter it. That's how this stuff works, when it does work.


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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 5:11:37 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Is life so dull ?


How does appreciating something for its beauty or emotional power dull? I appreciate a lot of art without purchasing it. I envy artistic people...they often don't know how lucky they are.

If an artists wants to use their skill to make a protest poster the poster is still art to be appreciated even if you don't agree with the message.

Butch


You envy artistic people, let me inform you from one stuck in between, it is a nightmare, everything that assaults from the day to day news to what one perceives in the course of their lives is so difficult. What it must be to see as we are told, a blessed relief from the questioning mind that seeks the occult of what we are being fed.

Beauty is unto the eye of the beholder, therefore what is beauty to one may be horror to another, or is it beauty is what it is to popular stance ?

How much art do you view, or anyone else for that matter is agreeable because others have voiced they think it so, would you have the courage to go against popular thought in what you secretly feel is different from the vocal viewer ?


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: The Art of Truth ? - 9/15/2011 5:23:58 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

would you have the courage to go against popular thought in what you secretly feel is different from the vocal viewer ?


I think most people know what is art....to them.... and have no problems articulating their feelings about it...with good grace anyway.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 36
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