RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (Full Version)

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MasterFireMaam -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/22/2006 7:07:21 PM)

I agree. I feel the same euphoria after a cathartic flogging (receiving) as I do after a cathartic mediation or cathartic sex. Why is the first suddenly bad because it involved someone flogging me? Besides, my psychologist says I'm not crazy. It's right there in the file. My psychiatrist agrees, as long as I take my meds.[:)]

When dealing with self mutilators, you have to look at the intent behind the action. If they do it because they like the pain, certainly, giving pain in a controlled atmosphere with love, kindness and caring is better than them doing it and then feeling terrible because they did. If they're doing it to mask emotional pain, they're not going to stop until they get that emotional pain worked out. Contrary to the Secretary, you ordering them to not do it will not stop the behavior. Control the emotional pain through therapy and providing new coping technics. Control to the physical situation by controling the physical pain...and again, give it with love, kindness and caring.

Fire





iliv2servher -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/22/2006 7:13:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher
Your obvious indictment of those of us who are in the scene as coming from a background of mental illness does nothing for your credibility.  And if you truly believe that, then what might your background be, and why are you here?


Nowhere have I said that everyone in this lifestyle comes from a place of mental illness. Quite to the contrary. My background...well that is a rather long story but I can tell you that I do not come from a background of abuse or mental illness and you would be fairly hard  pressed to find someone with a healthier sense of self. I am in this lifestyle because I am naturally submissive and I have always been attracted to naturally Dominant men....since long before I knew the terminology of this lifestyle. I have been practicing my submission actively for 28 years now. I have also spent over 7 years of my life counseling victims of sexual assault, domestic violence and substance abuse.

Yes I do believe that in certain instances and under the supervision of a qualified professional, that drug therapy can indeed be helpful. I believe that in the vast majority of cases counseling and non drug therapy can be and is highly effective. Unless of course in the cases of mental illness where the chemical makeup of the brain is need of "tweaking". I am glad that you do not see illegal drug and alcohol use as viable therapeutic options.

I stand firm in my opinions that I have presented on this and other threads. They are not opinions that I have come to lightly and they are not opinions that I have formed from an uneducated or inexperienced perspective. I'm sorry if you are not in agreement with them, I wasn't expecting you to be. I guess that is why I call them "mine".



erin,
 
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, and I am not suggesting otherwise.  These highly-charged issues should be discussed in an open forum, and I genuinely appreciate and respect your point of view.
 
Have a nice evening.
 
-Phil




Wolfie648 -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/22/2006 11:55:36 PM)

"BDSM is not therapy and should not be used for such. "

Maybe in your world.

D (owner of j).




brightspot -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/23/2006 1:28:03 AM)

If anyone thinks they have totally heathy mental BDSM intentions,
or
totally heathy mental health,
or
totally heathy BDSM relationships,
Their totally phucken crazy[:D].
 
I think everyone is crazy to different degree's and can have a label(s) slapped on them very easily. Which path one chooses to take towards healing as long as it is consenual and not harming I think is nobody's business really.
 
Professional therapy is a good additive, but choose carefully because there are a lot of nut-case therapists out there too, that can do more damage than good.
 
*Brightspot




Wulfchyld -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/23/2006 1:32:08 AM)

But aren’t we all a trifle bit mad? *Puffs on hookah and blows multi-colored smoke rings*




Vendaval -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/23/2006 11:50:54 PM)

I am going to agree with several other folks in this thread
that therapy should be separate from BD/DS/SM.  I have worked with many abuse survivors; children, adolescents, women and men.  I also know folks with real psychiatric conditions
that will be taking medication and going to therapy for the rest of their lives. 
Yes, the psychiatric diagnosis models (DSM IV) do not relfect Kink reality and used to classify homosexuality as a disease. 
 
But there are Kink-friendly therapists who specialize in different forms of treatment. 
(I can check some other discussion groups for the name of the organization that maintains that list.) 
 
Peace and Light,
 
Vendaval                                            




Vendaval -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 12:03:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I am not a neurologist but I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that if you performed a PET scan on these folks during a heavy flogging scene for instance, and compared it to one done under the same circumstances on a mentally healthy individual that the actions occurring within the brains of the two would be vastly different.

I would love to see those results.  Wonder who would be willing to fund the study though?


The character in the movie the Secretary was not healed because she never addressed her core issues. I will relate her behaviors to those much like that of a dry drunk. The movie in my opinion was downright damaging. Firstly, both of the characters in the movie were mentally unstable so therefore it publicly linked our lifestyle to mental illness. Secondly, it implied that issues as serious as self mutilation can be dealt with by a layman who had no understanding of the issue or how to address it. Third, it portrayed her as being a happy, "healthy" individual in the end as a result of her interactions with a man who didn't understand himself or his role within this lifestyle.

I have the same opionions about this movie.

While I will never say that it could never happen, I will say, as a person who has had extensive experience dealing with victims of abuse and those with self esteem issues....that type of result in reality would be very rare indeed. Self worth comes from within...you can't beat it into someone.


I do not expect perfection, but I do expect emotional stability, mental functioning, and consciousness.

YMMV,

Vendaval 




ladyseekinglord -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 12:28:53 AM)

We, as humans, have dependencies.  Just about anything can be healthy for one person and destructive for another, depending on the individual and how it is used.  Exercise, for instance, releases endorphins and promotes health, but it too, can be taken to the extremes of addiction, damaging the body and taking a destructive role in one's life. 
I believe it is possible for people with mental health issues to receive a sort of "healing" through their BDSM relationships, while it is also possible that others just use it as a crutch.  We all have coping mechanisms, some are healthy, some are not.  But who is to say which is which?  I think it is an entirely individual thing.  I think the difference lies in how it affects our lives as a whole.  If something (be it exercise or BDSM) is damaging to us, or affecting many areas of our lives in a negative way, that is certainly not healthy.

lady




CanadianGuy -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 1:22:15 AM)

What an interesting post.  I'll keep my reply short, not because I have little to say (I'm in the mental health field).

I think "mental illness" is a really hard to define term, even for someone who works around it and studies it, like myself.  What's dysfunctional, what's an issue, what's not normal?  Who's normal?  Who's qualified to judge?  I think just about everybody can admit they had some kind of issue or abnormality at some point in their life.  So who of us who are involved in BDSM to some degree can say they've never had any issue with weight/eating, self mutilation, mood, anxiety, paranoia, addiction, abuse, and so on?  Probably just about none of us.

So, yes, I think "mental illness" and BDSM are related, and have overlap.  But then again, so does "mental illness" and life as a human.




ExistentialSteel -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 2:13:48 AM)

Brightspot’s post is the first one I saw that is similar to my view. Who decides who needs therapy? There was a thread on here by cutters and they seemed pretty rational to me.

I have had relationships with two cutters. One was screwed up in my opinion and did deep cutting while the other was normal enough to me and only did scratches. I was going to cut her once, but the damn knife was too dull. I never pursued the matter so I guess it is not my thing. I will use my own personal judgment about people. If people need psychiatric help, I’ll tell them, but I won’t tell them because of some fetish.

People get into everything because of drives and needs. Life is complex. We could take things further and say everyone in BDSM or casual sex needs therapy if we generalize. I will keep my shots singular and let the shotgun blasts stay in Cheney’s dove field.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 5:43:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CanadianGuy
I think just about everybody can admit they had some kind of issue or abnormality at some point in their life.  So who of us who are involved in BDSM to some degree can say they've never had any issue with weight/eating, self mutilation, mood, anxiety, paranoia, addiction, abuse, and so on?  Probably just about none of us.

There's a very large difference between "being into bdsm AND having emotional/psychological dysfunctions" and "Using bdsm as a way to get therapy FOR one's emotional/psychological dysunctions when they shouldn't."

And, while I'm fine with judging others as needing to change what they are doing, I think ultimately their own choices pan out for themselves.  I'm not just making wild guesses here- the band-aid that ultimately turns into a full infection and doesn't actually work in the long term is a pattern I see of people CONSTANTLY who turn to bdsm as a way to "fix" things.




Gem -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 7:42:42 AM)

Brightest Blessings
 
I spent years in thearpy trying to heal from sexual, physical and mental abuse. Thearpy did not help me in the least, I will be fair and say that I was resentful, hateful, full of anger and not ready to heal yet.
 
However my sm play with my owner does and has helped me, it becomes cathartic, it moves me on to places where demons no longer roam, it has helped me heal to the point that I can sit across from my abuser and forgive.
 
Does it work for everybody? Nope! am I recommending folks run out of their thearpists offices and head for the local dungeon NOPE! What I am saying is that sometimes we have to seek the non-traditional, when all else fails.
 
Calling my owner Father and having sex and intimacy with him allows me to heal, it allows me to sleep at night.......with another survior it may send them back to living hell. Being beat with a belt or punched also allows for me to go back to where demons roam and fight them on my own terms in my own way, sending them back to that special place in hell where once I spent so much time, and leaves me walking lighter, freer, and healed.
 
I am not sure why it works for me where thearpy failed, maybe it was time for me to heal, maybe I am wired so differently that it was the only way to get thru. I know there are others like me out there, and they like me are not mentally ill, in fact they are healthier mentally and emotionally now then they were when they did things the traditional way.
 
Blessed Be
Gem




Dustyn -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 8:20:24 AM)

Is turning to a friend better or worse than turning to a top/dom or a bottom/sub/slave?

Is working through something with a therapist somehow more helpful than recreating the scenario with someone you trust implicitly, but with safety precautions?




KnightofMists -> RE: The dichotomy between mental health & the lifestyle (5/24/2006 8:23:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel
..........I will use my own personal judgment about people. If people need psychiatric help, I’ll tell them, but I won’t tell them because of some fetish.

People get into everything because of drives and needs. Life is complex. We could take things further and say everyone in BDSM or casual sex needs therapy if we generalize. I will keep my shots singular and let the shotgun blasts stay in Cheney’s dove field.


I agree, In the end it is our own personal judgement about people or more to the point about a particular individual.  How do we respond to people that we see having a dyfunction, disorder or whatever label you wish to throw at them?  If we are wrong, either way it could be messy.  But, I suspect not to many people are going to want to keep a person in their life that has a unstable mental condition.  It's a huge risk when Dominants try to bring stability to these unstable mental conditions.  There is a huge difference between managing to suppress the root of the mental condition to managing to cope and resolve the root of the mental condition.  A Dominant who is a layman in training of helping people with mental conditions has a much higher probability of doing the former than the latter.  This is only a Time Bomb waiting to go off and it will go off sooner or later.  Hopefully, any Dominant that has a person in their life that has mental conditions will know what is the right thing to do and will do it, whatever that path might be.

I also think individuals need to becareful in assigning any type mental label because of a specific behavior.  Cutting is a label that for many is associated with a cry for help, emotional managing issues etc etc etc.  However, like Cutting and a whole rath of other things, we can't look at it in isolation of just the behavior.  The motivation of such behavior is a critical aspect to consider and is very much the determining factor and not the specific behavior.  People also consider the consequences that specific behaviors result in.  To often we consider these consequences in to narrow of a light.  A cutter in a unhealthy way is often motivated to manage and suppress great emotional pain by doing the cutting.  The consequence is the short lived success to that which is motivating them.  However, their solution is a temporary.  They will do it again and again, until the consequences become so damaging that they take their own life or until they learn to cope and resolve the issues that plague them without resorting to temporary measures.

A person, be they labeled as the Dominant or not, who becomes apart of another person's destructive path becomes an enabler.  We often try to be supportive and helpful to individuals that we percieve has having a hard time of it.  To often, in our need to be supportive and helpful, we actually become part of the problem and not part of the solution.  Instead of assisting in the person in managing their feelings and issues.  We become at risk of managing it for them.  Slowly the person offsets their personal responsibilities on to this supportive individual.  The unaware person can suddenly find them self in a Co-Dependent relationship.  This relationship could appear as rather functional, but everytime the person with mental conditions percieves that they can't draw on their supportive partner in dealing with their issues alot of stress will occur.  This stress will be ever present and is like a cancer that is very likely to grow.  Since the solution is a dependent on beyond a person's control.  They will attempt to control the person to maintain their dependency.  This control can be very overt or it can be very manipulative and hidden.  This relationship is not much different than the alcoholic and their drink.  In fact, Co-dependency is a term often associated with addictions in general.   Their is a huge difference between a Healthy InterDependent relationship and one that is based on a Co-Dependency issue.  Often those on the outside will not even see it and even those that do are rather helpless to do anything until one or both see the problem for them selves.

As yourself, could you go on without your current partner(s)?  Could you know happiness without them?  Not that you could do this without alot of pain and anguish.  But, you can see yourself moving forward and finding happiness again.  But, not like the alcholic that finishes a bottle and runs to find the next one.  But, like person in search of a fine Wine, they just will not settle for less than they want and they will not become driven at expense of all else to find this wine.  It will come when it comes.  In the meantime they live as happy as they can.




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