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Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 12:09:32 AM

Termyn8or

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If the Modships here deem this worthy of a move to Polls or Off Topic I can accept that, but I submit that it may well belong here because some members of this site are suspected of using wrist restraints and (EEK) sometimes possibly for suspension. Well that's kinda lame but so what.

Carpal tunnel syndrome. It's not quite arthritis, it's something different. We know that. I have worked as an electrician and it's true that repeated motion does stress. Keyboards have been implicated. Maybe not condemnned, but implicated over the years. Yes the old QWERTY seems to have at least exaserbated a situation. Yes, your hands can ache after twisting wires all day. But just pushing buttons ?

Well electricians would either get arthritis or not, you didn't really hear much about them and carpal tunnel. Why ? Why is it people who use keyboards should be so adversely affect to a greater degree ? Well as you know I am seriously not into TV, escpecially new TV. But I have been exploring old TV episodes on IMDB etc. In this 1978 series about a newspaper I noticed the typewriters.

Remember those ? Now let's just disregard, for now, everything I have said about nutrition and how it adversely affects our health. Let's just take that out of the equation for now for analytical purposes. To type an "A" on this keyboard, if I typed correctly ala Mavis Beacon or something, how far would I have to move my hand ?

Thing about this now, not very far. Now I never really learned how to type, but I can be fast when I basically know all the words I want to type, I mean a pro can type anyting and have it be fast. Every time I get to a word I haven't typed much, or at all, it goes more slowly. But on those common but necessary words I am fairly fast. But how much exertion is there ? I've had both desk and portable typewriters and it's like this. The keys are easier to push on the desk job, but they require more travel. Seems like they move an inch or more. In fact there is usually an adjustment for the tension on the return spring, and also on the portable. The keys on the portable do not move as far but generally require more actual pressure. How much pressure does it take to type on a computer ?

Practically none. What that means really is that as you are sitting there typing up a new encyclopedia, for all those years you are pretty much sitting there with your wrists on a table holding up your hands. What possible action that would be natural to the structure of our wrists and hands that would we engage in in nature ? Nature formed us, our devices did not.

So maybe what we should do is get old typewriters and somehow wire them up to be keyboards for the PC ? Might not be a bad idea but then somehow we wold have to deal with the Alt and Ctrl and all that. Maybe put it all on a side keyboard along with the calculator type numeric section and the F keys.

I know this sounds stupid, but really think about it. This doesn't just fit Occam's razor, this is Occam is bustin' a nut. So fucking simple, but will anyone ever try it ?

T^T

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 4:11:02 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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First of all carpal tunnel is nowhere near arthritis.

Now, to your main point. It wouldn't change a thing, the movements are the same ones. Further, as someone who has typed on both typewriters and keyboards, the keyboards are much easier on the hands as they require (in general) less pressure in order to tap the keys. Add the ability to easily erase a mistyped key and HEAVEN!

As for holding up the wrists, my keyboard at work (and those of most of my fellow secretaries) have a bar to rest our wrists on so we aren't holding up our arms. Typewriters never had that. So keyboards are way superior to typewriters. Nice thought but it wouldn't work, Termy.

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 6:46:27 AM

myotherself

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I had carpal tunnel syndrome in the 90s when I was working as a journalist, and it took months of physio to get the pain to go away and the sensation to come back to my fingers. I was lucky - intensive physio and various injections sorted me out.

When I first learned to type in the early 80s, we used manual typewriters. We had to sit in a particular position with our hands almost arched - wrists higher than fingers at all times. This was helped by the upwards slope of the keys on the keyboard. We also had to have feet flat on the floor and back straight.

But those manual typewriters were a bitch on the fingers and hands. You had to hammer those keys down to get a decent imprint, and after a while your wrist and fingers hurt like fury. Eventually we moved to electric typewriters, which were a lot easier.

Nowadays I use a split keyboard with a strong downward slope. My wrists are higher than my fingers and I have nothing to rest my wrists on...I don't need to because they're in a more natural position. But I can't imagine how someone who isn't a touch typist would use these - it's one keyboard for each hand and you would spend hours swivelling your head from one board to the other to find a key! lol

IMO the various kinds of ergonomic keyboard are infinitely better than the clunky old manual or electric typewriters.

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 9:54:38 AM

littlewonder

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carpal tunnel surgery isn't like it used to be. I had a sister in law who had surgery back in the 80's. It was considered sorta risky and complicated then and she was out of work for over 3 months.

I have had coworkers who have it now and it's a same day surgery and you're back at work after less than 3 weeks sometimes.

I remember learning how to type when I was in grade school and we learned on typewriters. We would get our fingers slapped if we let our wrists fall on the keys. Not doing so is easier on a keyboard than a typewriter and not dropping your wrists will alleviate repetitive wrist injuries.

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 10:56:15 AM

windchymes

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Termy, simple anatomy lesson:

There are 8 bones in the wrist, called the carpal bones, or carpals. They have spaces in between them, or tunnels, that the tendons that connect your forearm muscles to the bones in your hands and fingers pass through, along with nerves, blood vessels, etc.

Now, you can't disprove that repeated motion of any muscle and its tendons will eventually cause pain & swelling. Inside the wrist spaces, or Carpal Tunnels, there is limited space for that swelling to occur. That swelling presses on the nerves and vessels as the tendons flex and extend in the tunnels causing irritation, nerve pain, restriction of blood flow, more swelling, and voila, the pain and swelling is called "Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, the word "syndrome" meaning a group or series of related and significant symptoms.

Carpal Tunnel Syndrome existed back in the days of manual typewriters, too. People got "Tennis Elbow", "Golfer's Elbow", "Frozen Shoulder" and other disorders caused by repeated motion, overuse, and stress on the muscles and joints. CTS isn't anything new related to keyboards. You can get it from writing too much, too.

Yes, and masturbating too much, too......

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 9:06:06 PM

bemyslut

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CTS doesnt care if you are an electrician, carpenter, typist, etc. People are more prone to getting it in present times because of the faulty method in which one rests their hands on the keyboards/tables. In days of old, wrists did not rest on the keyboard and table. The elbows were bent at 90 degrees, and forearms were held parallel to the floor; thereby alleviating any pressure on the wrists/tunnels themselves. This constant pressure on the supporting ligaments/tendons over time will cause edema which eventually places pressure on the median nerve as it enters the carpal tunnel space. Thereby causing what is known as carpal tunnel. Don't blame keyboards, computers, type writers, etc--most people don't maintain correct posture and ergonomics. Repetitive stress injuries can cause the same cycle of of edema, inflammation, pain, etc. CTS exists completely independent of arthritis and the mechanism of injury is completely different. There exists 2 basic types of arthritis: osteoarthritis (mechanical wear and tear), and rheumatoid arthritis (anti body mediated).

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/22/2011 11:30:52 PM

DeviantlyD

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A typewriter doesn't have a mouse.

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 9/24/2011 8:30:04 AM

wandersalone

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As others have said, there are split keyboards that are ergonomically set up which can be helpful for people who do sustained typing. the other thing that is very important ti to use correct posture at the workstation eg. ensure that your wrist is not flexed upwards (so if your keyboard has those little leg things, don't raise them), some of the wrist rests that sit at the front of the keyboard or near your mouse can actually increase the possibility of injuries because your hand/wrist are not in neutral positions, get up and have a break regularly etc etc

Electricians for the most part, and most tradies, are regularly changing tasks and postures hence they may not experience the repetitive type of injury. However if there is a tradie that does specialise in one type of task they do suffer from these types of injuries, epicondylitis, CTS etc. surgeons, especially those who do use fine motor movements such as neurosurgeons also are at increased risk of these repetitive types of injuries.

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RE: Here's a stupid ass theory. (CTS) - 10/7/2011 6:57:03 AM

MadAxeman