RE: accepting of hard limits??

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RE: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/26/2006 2:48:51 PM

wouldlike2

Posts: 89
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Wouldlike2: Might I ask how it was that you were unable to communicate to him during the scene that you did not approve of where he was going with it? Were you gagged??

no i was not gagged. but i was in a kind of subspace and definitly the language of my body is another one than my mind is - in that situation it was.
the hard limit i have set with that "guy" isnt a hard limit for me normally. but i have that hard limit with play partner, people i am involved just for a scene.. etc.
that was my purpose to tell him very clear before we got into the scene to tell him and to tell him very clear.. i doont want that he try... cause i know my body reaction...
he promised me to do so. and i did trust... in that moment as he took advantage of my body state... there was not a lot of chance for me to say stop, red.
it does may sound confused...
fact is also - especially when getting out from the scene, there is a feeling of abuse... taking advantage and at least no respect what i did told... or to take myself seriuos. we all have our reasons why we do... and act like that....
may that give You a clue

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Post #: 21

Re: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/26/2006 3:20:43 PM

iliv2servher

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Name me any reason to push a limit, and I will rebut it with a comment about adulthood and maturity of two people engaging in consensual acts.

With all due respect to your point of view, what would happen if we simply stuck to our old limits and didn't, for whatever reason, go forward and expand upon those limits? Wouldn't the fantasies that we longed to play out and the fetishes that we once liked eventually get old and boring?

Granted, hard limits when there are health and safety issues is a good thing, but the thought of being satisfied with the old status quo is hardly an exciting prospect.

I have always viewed S&M as a new horizon to explore...and something with endless possibilities. It is easy to see that what we learn here is something that we can use in our everyday lives. What good is life without being able to explore new thoughts and ideas? What good is life without mental, emotional, spiritual and intellictual growth? The only way we will ever survive as a species is through experimentation. Science is all about taking the hypothetical and asking the eternal question, "What if...?"

We are only limited by the scope of our imagination.

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Post #: 22

RE: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/26/2006 4:46:38 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14415
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Hmmmm I'd consider it completely inappropriate for someone to attempt to enter into territory of a hard limit, especially once clear consent has been given based on the understanding that they will NOT attempt to enter into that territory.

I like coming after LA. That way I can just quote her and agree.

My hard limits are my hard limits. They are unchangeable. There's no way I'd get too horny and let one go by. If I was with someone that didn't respect that......goodbye.

Anything that is not a hard limit is negotiable. That includes my soft limits, which can change on a daily basis.

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RE: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/26/2006 4:55:21 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ADomDoc
No sub is absolutely happy with his/her limits.

Ummm.....wrong. I'm perfectly happy with mine.

quote:

On a related vein: subs who use safe words always do so in anticipation of a scene reaching their limits AND before their limits have actually been met. Ergo, all subs stop their scenes early and are always subsequently disappointed.

Worng again.....most subs don't want to use their safewords, some in cases of when they definitely should have. I have safeworded exactly once. It was a leg cramp.

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RE: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/26/2006 5:03:50 PM

Slipstreme

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Through communication and exploration, I can see pushing limits as a possibility, but never without your partners full knowledge of what you are talking about. Negotiation is everything.

Sometimes, we have limits we set due to preconcieved notions and such, only to find ourselves thinking later on about actually going there. So, something we once thought was a hard limit, may in fact turn out not to be. My current example is suspension by hooks. I had originally thought that I would never have the pain tolerence necessary to actually do it, and thus had it set as a "hard" limit. Now I can see myself in a few years having done it.

So, through time, patience, and when your partner is ready, I can see it be a viable route. However, never before they can see their limit no longer be the hard limit they once thought it was.

Now those hard limits set in stone, I would not take someone any further than they can go without breaking them.

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Post #: 25

RE: Re: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/27/2006 8:47:50 AM

Proprietrix

Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
Name me any reason to push a limit, and I will rebut it with a comment about adulthood and maturity of two people engaging in consensual acts.

With all due respect to your point of view, what would happen if we simply stuck to our old limits and didn't, for whatever reason, go forward and expand upon those limits? Wouldn't the fantasies that we longed to play out and the fetishes that we once liked eventually get old and boring?
Granted, hard limits when there are health and safety issues is a good thing, but the thought of being satisfied with the old status quo is hardly an exciting prospect.
I have always viewed S&M as a new horizon to explore...and something with endless possibilities. It is easy to see that what we learn here is something that we can use in our everyday lives. What good is life without being able to explore new thoughts and ideas? What good is life without mental, emotional, spiritual and intellictual growth? The only way we will ever survive as a species is through experimentation. Science is all about taking the hypothetical and asking the eternal question, "What if...?"
We are only limited by the scope of our imagination.

I have no problem with people expanding their horizons. In fact, I very much encourage people to do so. I just don't feel it is my place as a Dominant to expand those horizons for someone else. If my sub/slave has a limit against something, that limit is there for a reason and I respect that. It's not my place to try to manipulate them out of that limit or push them into something they may or may not be ready for.

If and when s/he decides they want to give it a try, I'm usually more than happy to help him/her down that path of experimentation into the unknown. But it is his or her choice to go there. Not mine. It is his or her choice to take that activity off the limit list and place it in the experimentation list. I don't think that just because I am a Dominant, I have the right to push limits. Limits are limits. That's the one place I have no authority over my submissives. Their limits are their field, their turf.

I allow my subs and slaves to have limits. It would be contradictory for me to say "You can have limits, but I retain the right to push them." They need to feel safe and secure that I will respect their limits.

If and when they are ready to move their limits from that realm of safety into my hands, *then* I can act upon them. And *then* we, as two consensual adults, will discuss the intricacies and consequences of doing so.

My point isn't that limits should be static. It's that limits should stay in the submissive's control, not mine. My submissives are adults, capable of making decisions about if/when/how they want to keep or eliminate their own limits.

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Post #: 26

RE: Re: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/27/2006 12:10:45 PM

iliv2servher

Posts: 228
Joined: 5/17/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: iliv2servher

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix
Name me any reason to push a limit, and I will rebut it with a comment about adulthood and maturity of two people engaging in consensual acts.

With all due respect to your point of view, what would happen if we simply stuck to our old limits and didn't, for whatever reason, go forward and expand upon those limits? Wouldn't the fantasies that we longed to play out and the fetishes that we once liked eventually become old and boring?

Granted, hard limits when there are health and safety issues is a good thing, but the thought of being satisfied with the old status quo is hardly an exciting prospect.
I have always viewed S&M as a new horizon to explore...and something with endless possibilities. It is easy to see that what we learn here is something that we can use in our everyday lives. What good is life without being able to explore new thoughts and ideas? What good is life without mental, emotional, spiritual and intellictual growth? The only way we will ever survive as a species is through experimentation. Science is all about taking the hypothetical and asking the eternal question, "What if...?"

We are only limited by the scope of our imagination.

I have no problem with people expanding their horizons. In fact, I very much encourage people to do so. I just don't feel it is my place as a Dominant to expand those horizons for someone else. If my sub/slave has a limit against something, that limit is there for a reason and I respect that. It's not my place to try to manipulate them out of that limit or push them into something they may or may not be ready for.

I'd like to being by saying this: Hard limits are there for a reason, usually for health and safety. Other limits (some refer to them as "soft limits") are often subject to change because of our growth cycle. I am certainly not advocating that you or anyone else try to manipulate those limits. All that I am saying here is that it has been my experince that we tend to change the boundaries of those "soft limits" when we are in an exporation mode. The pushing of limits should always be discussed and agreed to between both or all participants before the actual encounter takes place.

quote:

If and when s/he decides they want to give it a try, I'm usually more than happy to help him/her down that path of experimentation into the unknown. But it is his or her choice to go there. Not mine. It is his or her choice to take that activity off the limit list and place it in the experimentation list. I don't think that just because I am a Dominant, I have the right to push limits. Limits are limits. That's the one place I have no authority over my submissives. Their limits are their field, their turf.

Exactly! And I totally agree with you. In the real world, no one has to the right to change the boundaries of our limitations without the parties involved being in mutual agreement.

quote:

My point isn't that limits should be static. It's that limits should stay in the submissive's control, not mine. My submissives are adults, capable of making decisions about if/when/how they want to keep or eliminate their own limits.

Yes, I agree completely. In the world of consentual relationships (24/7or "casual" play), and assuming that these hypothetical submissives have the capacity to make informed decisions, I believe that it is incombent upon the domme to respect those limits and adhere to them. I beleive that most responsible dommes (those with whom I had had associations with) are careful to make sure that the submissive has a reasonable expectation of safety, and that the scene not exceed their comfort zone.

< Message edited by iliv2servher -- 5/27/2006 12:15:30 PM >

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Post #: 27

RE: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/27/2006 3:26:39 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
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quote:

he promised me to do so. and i did trust... in that moment as he took advantage of my body state... there was not a lot of chance for me to say stop, red.
it does may sound confused...
fact is also - especially when getting out from the scene, there is a feeling of abuse... taking advantage and at least no respect what i did told... or to take myself seriuos. we all have our reasons why we do... and act like that....
may that give You a clue

I definitely wouldn't play with him again, who knows what he may do next time. Also i would tell your dominant about it so maybe he could talk to this person so that he doesn't abuse another play partner. Was your dominant present? Does your dominant know this person and gave permission for you to play with him? I am just curious how you came about to play with him and go to subspace without apparently knowing him very well.

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Post #: 28

RE: accepting of hard limits?? - 5/27/2006 4:08:40 PM

TexasMaam