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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:19:02 AM   
TheFireWithinMe


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Monkey you haz teh mails!

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:24:10 AM   
GreedyTop


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responded

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:30:42 AM   
werebeastie


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Aynne,

Thank you for the kind words.  Certainly you may ask and I will here try to answer, well, I will answer do not know if you will find it satisfactory.

First I should like to clarify one point, I did not say I did not want a relationship by definition the arrangement a Master and sub or slave enter into is a relationship.  In fact a want a remarkable relationship and I do not want to put limitations on how that relationship might grow or what course it might follow.  It is because I want a successful remarkable relationship that I exclude the vanilla notions of girlfriends and wives.  I think that those words carry with them concepts and connotations that can cause cognitive dissonance when they are carried into the BDSM world. 

I cannot speak for other people that call themselves Master/Mistress or Dom/Domme I can only speak for myself and I have found that often I am not in step even with my perceived peers ... I don't get my nose bent out of shape if someone forgets to capitalize some word or speaks to me first or what ever else the self proclaimed ubers get all spastic about ... I said it somewhere before ... its not that I march to the beat of a different drummer; I dance to my own music.  I am me and do not need some title or ritual display to validate me I am comfortable with who and what I am.  A mostly playful Apex Mammalian Social Predator.  Perhaps that comfort is what allows me to so outgoing. 

I am guessing that the answer to your second question must in truth always be yes, everything I am today is based on my past relationships, experiences and the genetic make up that responds to those environmental stimuli.

Nosy curious ... its all in the perception



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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:34:23 AM   
werebeastie


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So Pete,

Am I digging myself a grave here? 

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:35:45 AM   
TheFireWithinMe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

Aynne,

Thank you for the kind words.  Certainly you may ask and I will here try to answer, well, I will answer do not know if you will find it satisfactory.

First I should like to clarify one point, I did not say I did not want a relationship by definition the arrangement a Master and sub or slave enter into is a relationship.  In fact a want a remarkable relationship and I do not want to put limitations on how that relationship might grow or what course it might follow.  It is because I want a successful remarkable relationship that I exclude the vanilla notions of girlfriends and wives.  I think that those words carry with them concepts and connotations that can cause cognitive dissonance when they are carried into the BDSM world. 

I cannot speak for other people that call themselves Master/Mistress or Dom/Domme I can only speak for myself and I have found that often I am not in step even with my perceived peers ... I don't get my nose bent out of shape if someone forgets to capitalize some word or speaks to me first or what ever else the self proclaimed ubers get all spastic about ... I said it somewhere before ... its not that I march to the beat of a different drummer; I dance to my own music.  I am me and do not need some title or ritual display to validate me I am comfortable with who and what I am.  A mostly playful Apex Mammalian Social Predator.  Perhaps that comfort is what allows me to so outgoing. 

I am guessing that the answer to your second question must in truth always be yes, everything I am today is based on my past relationships, experiences and the genetic make up that responds to those environmental stimuli.

Nosy curious ... its all in the perception





True but judging by your journal posts it doesn't seem like you are looking for a LOVE relationship. Personally I don't "do" chattel. You may find what you seek but it's going to take some searching.


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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:36:48 AM   
Ninebelowzero


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Don't think so, it's a case of the more open you are the more chance you will get what you are looking for. But that's just an opinion.
quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

So Pete,

Am I digging myself a grave here? 




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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:53:34 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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if i was going to have kids with someone (carrying one to full term =p) i would probably prefer to be in a relationship where i wouldn't just be cast off and neglected once the child was there. the "neglect at my whims" part would be concerning to someone who was seriously interested in raising kids.

i think you can totally have a healthy family as part of an M/s dynamic. but i think that probably comes with being more than chattel property.


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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:55:29 AM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

So Pete,

Am I digging myself a grave here? 



Thanks for the reply, I didn't want to quote your post and add to the length of the thread so anyway yes I understand your philos on this but.....ike Fire said, most worthy women, and you can define worthy in your own terms of course, but they don't like the whole "chattel" thing and I can't imagine if I were willing to carry someone's child (I am not and never would) that I wouldn't insist on a romantic relationship. Actually call me old school but I'd insist on marriage.

What kind of woman do you really think would have a man's child without the benefit of a committed relationship behind her?  Someone with a breeder fetish maybe or low self esteem, that's all I am saying.


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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 9:56:01 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Don't think so, it's a case of the more open you are the more chance you will get what you are looking for. But that's just an opinion.
quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

So Pete,

Am I digging myself a grave here? 





agreed; i wouldn't say you're digging a hole. you're just creating a more specific frame of reference. so someone might say "ahhhh that's not for me" -- but someone else might say "hey, that is for me." so you might eliminate some options but generate other options. =p


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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:02:34 AM   
werebeastie


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Understood; if you believe the two to be mutually exclusive, I do not.  Herein lies the problem with some of our chosen words ... for instance slave ... there is no real or at least no legal slavery and the people on here are drawn together by mutual interest and desires and when two come together it is because the submissive has chosen to be with the dominant, not because the dominant raided their village and carried them off.  The word zealot would be more appropriate but it carries other connotations all its own.  Still when one chooses to be a slave versus sub then one must by default accept the chattel aspect of the title.  I have no idea what line of logic would lead one to say a slave cannot be loved, cherished even treasured.  The greatest love of my life was my slave, had she not been stolen from me by a drunken driver we would have been married ... not to make her my "wife" we didn't need that title or anyone's blessing for what we shared and it was a very deep love, our reason was more pragmatic concerning property rights and such.  Still I do not find a woman or her position in my heart to be diminished simply by her choice to give herself utterly unto me, to have the depth of love, trust and respect necessary to make such a commitment; on the contrary I hold the greatest respect for a couple that can make such an intimate and holistic commitment to one another.  My slave, my beloved chattel holds a place of higher esteem with me than any other woman.

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:06:28 AM   
werebeastie


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HannaLynn I tried it for a long stretch of my youth and its just not as fun as being playful ... but you do seem to make aggression fun 

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:07:56 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

Understood; if you believe the two to be mutually exclusive, I do not.  Herein lies the problem with some of our chosen words ... for instance slave ... there is no real or at least no legal slavery and the people on here are drawn together by mutual interest and desires and when two come together it is because the submissive has chosen to be with the dominant, not because the dominant raided their village and carried them off.  The word zealot would be more appropriate but it carries other connotations all its own.  Still when one chooses to be a slave versus sub then one must by default accept the chattel aspect of the title.  I have no idea what line of logic would lead one to say a slave cannot be loved, cherished even treasured.  The greatest love of my life was my slave, had she not been stolen from me by a drunken driver we would have been married ... not to make her my "wife" we didn't need that title or anyone's blessing for what we shared and it was a very deep love, our reason was more pragmatic concerning property rights and such.  Still I do not find a woman or her position in my heart to be diminished simply by her choice to give herself utterly unto me, to have the depth of love, trust and respect necessary to make such a commitment; on the contrary I hold the greatest respect for a couple that can make such an intimate and holistic commitment to one another.  My slave, my beloved chattel holds a place of higher esteem with me than any other woman.



wow.. nicely said, in a way that makes sense!!

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polysnortatious
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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:08:42 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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werebeastie -- that response is great and definitely rounds out the way you perceive chattel -- to many people, it's something different altogether. to many people, though, the "neglect at my whims" part seems at odds with being a father and raising a child. 

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 11/5/2011 10:10:13 AM >


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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:09:28 AM   
HannahLynn


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quote:

Understood; if you believe the two to be mutually exclusive, I do not.
quote:

My slave, my beloved chattel holds a place of higher esteem with me than any other woman.
bingo!! that mirrors my thinking almost to a fucking t. of course i would have worded it much more politely, but i am used to others not being as gentle and caring in their postings as i am.

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:11:49 AM   
werebeastie


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You have a different logic string than I Aynne you seem to feel that if a woman is a slave or chattel by another name that she will not be loved ... and I suppose that is true in some cases but its true in some relationships regardless of how they are titled.  As I said before i cannot speak for anyone but myself but I see no mutual exclusivity I believe that a slave can be loved just as much or as little as a woman bearing any other relationship title.

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:14:13 AM   
Aynne88


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quote:

Still when one chooses to be a slave versus sub then one must by default accept the chattel aspect of the title.


I disagree with that.I am sure I'm not alone in that. I am not a slave, and would never be one again, but still...I find this to be an incorrect generalization.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:15:26 AM   
werebeastie


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god but you tickle me ... and thats cool because I find aggressive snarlie little fuzzy kittens adorable ... and I won't mention easily dispatched if they become annoying hahaha

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:17:28 AM   
werebeastie


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Thank you ... every now and then I make sense ... it's usually by accident but I'll take what I can get

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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:19:31 AM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

You have a different logic string than I Aynne you seem to feel that if a woman is a slave or chattel by another name that she will not be loved ... and I suppose that is true in some cases but its true in some relationships regardless of how they are titled.  As I said before i cannot speak for anyone but myself but I see no mutual exclusivity I believe that a slave can be loved just as much or as little as a woman bearing any other relationship title.



To the contrary, I know many slaves that are loved to the extreme. I just don't think that chattel and slave are in any way interchangeable, and I don't know any women that would want to be someone's chattel, with no commitment at all, mother children. When you mention the neglecting at your whim part, it piqued my interest. I don't know a lot of quality women that would fall into your parameters and I just wanted to see if I was seeing it correctly, again, I do appreciate the answers.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The unkinky aspects of life - 11/5/2011 10:20:11 AM   
TheFireWithinMe


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<shrugs> you've made a lot of sense here, doesn't seem all that accidental to me. You seem to have the same take on it my Masters had; both are good men.

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