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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:14:17 PM   
seekerofslut


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Joined: 9/7/2011
Status: offline 		Heather, why must it be something other than "influence of a dead person"? Of course it's possible that you are entirely correct, but,,,  why must it be so?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:25:11 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Well, in my grandfather's case, I wasn't really grieving.  I didn't really like him that much, he was a mean bastard.

It was a fairly profound experience for me.  My oldest sister, in particular, has tried many times over the years to dissuade me.  She never has and never will.  Neither will anyone else.

Your statement about the residual energy being an echo is probably correct.  I still consider it a ghost, even though I suppose there is an argument that it was not a dead person interacting with the world.  Is that your definition of ghost?
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

I have had similar, less dramatic experiences since then, always shortly after someone close to me dies
Couldn't that have a different explanation, given that it happens when you are grieving?

And if it is residual energy in some form, then it isn't really the dead person interacting with the world, but more sort of an echo. Would you say that's a fair statement?


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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:26:13 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

LMAO. This article is worse than a Rule thread. There is nothing about Einstein's theories that would in anyway support an "after life".


Try taking a look at his work on mass energy equivalence and his Mirabilis papers.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:26:45 PM   
MstrDennynSlave


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Status: offline 		I believe in ghosts. I've seen them. When I was little, I would see a black lady in a long dress and carrying a basket of flowers. She would be walking down the road past the house I lived in. When I moved where I live now after my husband died, I was moving things in. Once when I went out to the car to get something else out of it, I looked down and there was a penny on the stoop. I picked it up and looked at it. It was dated the year my husband was born, 1957. I'm guessing he approved of where I was moving to. I have also seen my two youngest children that died in 1993.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:26:46 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Bias anyone?
Well yes, I will freely admit that I am biased towards facts.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:32:28 PM   
TheFireWithinMe


Posts: 1672
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From: The Depths of Hell
Status: offline 		How can you say it's a fact ghosts don't exist when there is no proof either way? I can accept that you don't believe in them but you can't say it's a fact.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:33:15 PM   
seekerofslut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Bias anyone?
Well yes, I will freely admit that I am biased towards facts.


Scientific facts, Heather, scientific. All other forms of evidence elude you.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:34:34 PM   
ricken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

That's okay, because the fact remains the same that you, me and everyone else will die one day and the experience may be completely different to what we believe or don't believe.

But please don't let me stop you pissing on other people's beliefs in the absence of contributing something constructive to the thread.

This is in response to ricken who appeared to have responded to my post. Just to clarify.


I meant to use fast reply, sorry should have stated it.

I'm stating my belief in the matter, as the title posted "do ghosts exist?" I think it's crap. I don't believe in it,  but was raised to, and did believe very strongly, for years. That was a waste.

And since no ghosts, spirits, or even santa clause showed up to prove otherwise, since my last post, I will stick by my beliefes.

There are no ghosts. If stating my beliefs are pissing on someone elses, then so be it.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:36:09 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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1. Why do you think it is the influence of a dead person rather than any other possible explanation?  Because I was there, and I know what I felt.

2. How do you think it is being accomplished? Wandering spirit, residual energy, heavenly intervention, what mechanism do you think is at work?  Who gives a rats ass?  I have no clue, I just know what I have experienced.


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yep

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:42:53 PM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

http://news.yahoo.com/einsteins-laws-prove-ghosts-exist-144407090.html

Now this is an interesting article.
Somehow I've always thought that the "afterlife" was more rooted in science than religion.
Einstein was right about energy neither being created nor destroyed.


i don't know if ghosts exist. i've known people who swear that they've seen them or felt them. i never have. i don't know whether to attribute that to a difference in our respective ability to perceive paranormal activity, or misjudgement on their part. As i get older, i tend to believe the latter.

Don't know about the Einstein thing though. Energy is neither created or destroyed, that's true. What has that got to do with ghosts? As far as i know, the energy that's present in living beings is fully accounted for after they die.

Incidently, i do believe in ESP.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 11/14/2011 4:45:20 PM >

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 4:57:25 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Status: offline 		It doesn't, but that's the angle I am using to open my discussion with the people who have answered my questions so far is all. Feel free to make whatever comment you want, this isn't my thread.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:01:39 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Couldn't the first two instances be a result of some form of ESP on your part rather than having to be him remaining behind?




ESP on my part? Like I was somehow projecting things to other people? It's possible, but at the time, bleeding hearts were the last thing on my mind until she mentioned them. And the other woman was someone I had never personally met. The others were people that I'd only met briefly in passing. So I don't imagine that I would be spreading information to people who were so far from my personal circle.
I would imagine if that were going to happen, it would mostly affect people who were in my immediate vicinity.

I'm specifically leaving out the things that I experienced, because I imagine someone will chalk them up to "well you were grieving and freaking out at the time."




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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:06:00 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Is that your definition of ghost?
Well its a viable one, but that's not really important if it fits any specific definition of a ghost or poltergeist or anything in particular.

Are you of the opinion that the "echo" would be a sentient thing?

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:11:09 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

Well, we've established our camps quite firmly, and I doubt anything will be gained from further examining those positions, why don't we try a different tack here. Let's look at the various possibilities. I'm not going to argue any further, that would be pointless, but it still could be interesting to look at the possibilities and discuss them, regardless of if we happen to believe that possibility or not.
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3922554

Please refer to pages 1-9 for that discussion.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:12:41 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Status: offline 		No facts, just plain facts.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:13:59 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:15:58 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Status: offline 		Why would he be spreading messages so far from your personal circle?

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:20:42 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Why would he be spreading messages so far from your personal circle?


I would imagine his incentive was to prove to me that things that were happening weren't just the imaginings of my admittedly frazzled brain, and that he really was okay, and there really was something after "here." We used to talk about it all the time, actually.  If other people who had never met him, or only met him once knew things that only we'd talked about, and could describe him exactly despite never seeing him, then that would prove a lot to me.


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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:24:19 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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Status: offline 		OK, that's basically reasonable, thanks. I hope it wasn't too difficult or painful for you to discuss this.

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RE: Do ghosts exist? - 11/14/2011 5:28:21 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Sentient?  I also haven't thought about that.  It certainly seemed to direct itself at me. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Is that your definition of ghost?
Well its a viable one, but that's not really important if it fits any specific definition of a ghost or poltergeist or anything in particular.

Are you of the opinion that the "echo" would be a sentient thing?


< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 11/14/2011 5:31:15 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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