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RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 2:58:59 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Okay, so I'm understanding that setting a time limit, and allowing the sub/slave to continue regular things associated with their service (such as journaling and corner time, and kneeling for five minutes upon waking) so that the sub does not feel "set adrift" makes the distinction???

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 21

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 3:02:27 AM

Kedikat

Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
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After that ramble.
It hurt you a lot more than maybe he knew.
A sub/slave/whatever, should never be silent about pain that is in the heart.
Say it to Him.

(in reply to Kedikat)

Post #: 22

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 7:05:07 AM

spectreandnectre

Posts: 401
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline

This is a great topic and during my search years ago i ran into this a few times...but mine was mostly because i would refuse to fully submit to someone without at least a commitment of some kind...i do know that a few times i would get to that point that i would be willing to commit and then these things happened and *poof* i no longer had that desire. i knew what i was seeking and would not settle for less i know i could never deal with being ignored in any aspect. i had many Dom/me mentors who really helped me and most of them would tell me that that is a players route so i took their advice. That is just my opinion and i know it does hurt alot of people but i knew i couldn't and wouldn't live like that. Again only my opinion and i hope i havent offended A/anyone.

_____________________________

"When I see you, the world stops as if the only purpose in life was for me to please you."

(in reply to Kedikat)

Post #: 23

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 7:42:08 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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This is manipulation of the negative and destructive type. It's sounds like the quite common *create or wait for the dependancy* situation..because it wouldn't work otherwise.

I'd also describe it as a *lazy dom's tool*, as someone mentioned before.

In vanilla relationships it's exactly the same. In my mind, it's using the fundamental attachment that has been created, to beat someone with, and it's almost always destructive.

agirl

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 24

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 8:07:09 AM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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Is it laziness...... or a Dom/me that just doesn't care about the other one? interesting thread...

It seems to me that if a Dom/me treats another like this, i.e., just walk away for who knows how long... that Dom/me didn't truly care one way or another...

just thinking outloud, here.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 25

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 8:38:42 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

Is it laziness...... or a Dom/me that just doesn't care about the other one? interesting thread...

It seems to me that if a Dom/me treats another like this, i.e., just walk away for who knows how long... that Dom/me didn't truly care one way or another...

just thinking outloud, here.

Yep, that's always a possibility too.

But..........If they didn't care *one way or the other* .....they certainly would not be a *dom* in any shape or form that I'd recognise.

agirl

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 26

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 9:18:00 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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He possibly didnt care, you would have to ask him. It seems a little odd to spend hours upon hours with someone in real time and phone email for over 2 years that you did not give a hoot about, but you know, anything is possible. I think it is more likely that someone who engages in this behavior has codependent issues of their own and needs to control others from a negative place. I have come to the conclusion that those who could hurt others like this basically are not capable of love, but I could be wrong. I havent thought about it in many months because I do not care what motivates doms that act like this, I just want them to stay away from me.

Although I would never have put up with this in a vanilla relationship, I did under the guise of D/s. I want to share the experience with others so they can see it is NOT D/s to be done this way, it is abuse. A lot of things are done in the name of D/s that are not D/s... This is just one of them. I am thankful I went through this because it gave me the opportunity to physically heal myself of panic attacks, if I had never has this trigger I might still be smoking and eating the wrong things and not exercising. I did these things to make myself feel better and they worked. I never said "He was the total cause" of these things, I said he was the trigger.

I hear a lot of people going on and on about "online this" and "online" that. I think part of that is elitism, and I think part of it is because "it can't happen to me because I do not do online". People abandon subs in real life, I have read about it on this board and others.... so it isn't only an "Online" thing is it? My thing wasnt just an online thing, yet I hear people talking about it as though it were, which is a distancing mechanism perhaps.

BTW meatcleaver. I have my dom's phone number, his physical address, and my best friend lives near by him. I might be going to his city this summer to visit her, but I sure as hell wouldnt bother him. So I could MAKE him deal with his behavior, but why? I think he is probably miserable everytime he thinks of me because I am quite the catch to lose and subs like me do not come along very often. Not only that, I am seeing someone new, so why dig up old stinky fish? I posted this not because I am still actively hurting, although it smarts a little and is a little embarassing to admit I would put up with that stupidity, I posted this because I think that it might help someone else. I am still hoping it does and if some of the responses are any indication it might already have let people know they are not alone

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 27

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 11:12:14 AM

Proprietrix

Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
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A few things come to mind here.

First, I don't view periods of ignoring someone as abandonment. To me, abandoning someone is totally breaking all ties with that person. Like a dead beat dad walking out on his family. Under that definition then, serial abandonment would be that person reviving those ties and coming back into someone's life, and then doing it again. The chips are down for deadbeat dad, so he starts "courting" mom again and wiggles back into her life, only to up and walk out on her again later down the road. Rinse, repeat.
Call me a hard-nose, but the problem I see in that situation is mom allowing it to keep happening. Do I see dad as abusive? Nope. I see him as neglectful in his parenting, and pretty much a jerk-off, but I don't see him as an abuser. If anything, I see mom too as neglectful in her parenting duties because she's allowing the kids to be repeatedly exposed to asswipe and failing to provide a structured home for her kiddos.
Read the above 2 paragraphs again, but this time use D/s terms instead of familial ones.

First, I don't view periods of ignoring someone as abandonment. To me, abandoning someone is totally breaking all ties with that person. Like a dead beat DOM walking out on his RELATIONSHIP. Under that definition then, serial abandonment would be that person reviving those ties and coming back into someone's life, and then doing it again. The chips are down for deadbeat DOM, so he starts "courting" SUB again and wiggles back into her life, only to up and walk out on her again later down the road. Rinse, repeat. Call me a hard-nose, but the problem I see in that situation is SUB allowing it to keep happening. Do I see DOM as abusive? Nope. I see him as neglectful in his RELATIONSHIP, and pretty much a jerk-off, but I don't see him as an abuser. If anything, I see SUB too as neglectful in her RELATIONSHIPS because she's allowing HERSELF to be repeatedly exposed to an asswipe and failing to provide a structured home for her SELF.
Second, I see an extra variable being added to the mix: PTSD. Now, we go back to the issue at hand: A Dominant who implements ignoring/cutting off communication with a submissive as a tool. Probably not a good tool to use with someone who has PTSD based on childhood abandonment issues. Maybe a very handy tool to use with someone without PTSD. Slapping a submissive in the face probably isn't going to be a good tool for someone who was smacked around as a kid. Hail Marys probably aren't going to go over well with a submissive who was sodomized by the priest. Name-calling probably isn't going to work for someone incessantly teased in junior high.

But guess what? Dominants aren't mind-readers, and most don't automatically assume that their submissive has one of a plethora of different possible issues. It all comes back to basic communication between 2 people. I'm not going to put all of my disciplinary measures for submissives in a "no-touch" box because they might or might not set off a particular trigger for a past issue that might or might not be present. That's a bit too much egg-shell walking for me. My submissives need to be honest and forthright in disclosing issues to me.

The third issue I see here is that you're speaking of online and long distance relationships. Those relationships, because of how they are structured in the first place, eliminate MANY disciplinary techniques for the Dominant. I can't spank you. I can't sit you over there in the corner for a time-out while I watch TV. I can't give you extra cleaning chores in my kitchen. I can't use the paddle, the whip, the cane, or any other tangible "toy" to punish you. You're already denied access to my home, my body, my touch, my extracurricular activities, my vehicle, my neighborhood, my friends, my family.... The possibilities on punishment are greatly reduced already. Cutting off communication is one of the few punishments that remain.

And lastly, you've touched on basic disrespect for a submissive. You expressed yourself honestly to your Dominant and he did not take that into account. This is not exclusive to abandonment. The same feelings of abuse would have arisen if he had ignored past abuse, a past rape, etc.. and continued to use disciplinary techniques that triggered ill response.

I believe that ignoring, silent-treatments, cutting off communication for a time, isolation, think time/time out, and silence orders *can* play a role in discipline. Stigma and banishment based punishments tend to work especially well in certain relationships. But like any disciplinary measure used in D/s, it must be used responsibly. It is no more responsible to cut off communications with a PTSD/abandonment submissive for 3 weeks without warning, than it is to start flailing a barbed singletail at a submissive unexpectedly while he's asleep in bed. It kind of falls under "Duh." If the Dominant isn't adult enough to use punishments appropriately/responsibly, I hope at least the submissive is adult enough to recognize the irresponsibility and walk away.

_____________________________

IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 28

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 11:33:04 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

I've been carthing up on this thread and I need to speak out one a couple of points... How does one define abandonment exactly??? Is it abandonment when my sub verbally disrespects me in my home, and in return I send him to his room until I can address the issue calmly? Is it abandonment when he has failed to perform an important task I asked of him, and I tell him I do not want contact until it is completed? Is it abandonment when I send him to the guest room for two nights because I do not feel I could sleep comfortably beside him until he can truly understand how he has hurt our relationship?

I'm not being sarcastic here... I'm genuinely asking what perameters makes it "abandonment" rather than the removal of my presence until emotional control is restored, or the issue has been pondered, or it is a specified sentence due to something he knows he did wrong and needs to feel the separation for a time in order to not take it for granted anymore?

I realize that many sub/slaves are manipulated every day until their self esteem is whittled away to nothing, and they desperately need to cling to the one who is causing the damage... it's called co-dependence. But how do you submissives define what is abusive in this matter, and what is unpleasant, but productive in aiding an errant sub to mend their ways?

I can't even wrap my brains around a lot of this stuff. Being disrespectful to Himself is not something I do. Even when I first started in D/s, I was a pretty horrible submissive, but I was never disrespectful and I never failed to complete a task ... but then, my grandma raised me to respect and to finish what I start, so that's that, I guess. ::laughs::

Sending someone away so they can ponder the relationship is 'one' person pondering a relationship. As a 'relationship' takes at least 'two' people.. discussion would seem a hell of a lot more productive than to send one party away to try to figure things out or sleep in another room till they can see the 'harm' they did. What happens if they can't see it? Without feedback from their partner, if they can't get to where they are supposed to on their own, then what? They have to stay in another room indefinitely?

That said, if someone is going a little loopy, crying, throwing a tantrum, what have you.. that's a bit different.. that's more like a time out to calm the fuck down.. not a punishment for errant behavior. To me, that would come later.. after the tantrum, after the cooling down time and after the discussion about what caused the tantrum in the first place.. (do adults really have temper tantrums??? I guess they do! lol)

Is it abandonment? :shrugs: I don't know.. I suppose if the one who's been shut out feels that way, then it is because they don't know if the other party is coming back, going to forgive, what have you. So even if it's for a day or two, or a week or two.. if you don't know, what else can you call it? You would only know how it 'feels' to you.. and I can see where it would feel pretty sucky to be in that situation.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 5/27/2006 11:35:26 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 29

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 11:43:09 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Yes, did walk away...lol.. I could have kept the situation going had I chosen to, but I chose not to...smiles. Once he showed me he was going to use my issues against me I did not revive the situation.

I respect your opinion, but no matter whether you call it abandonment, abuse, a wrongly used tool.. it still comes down to using a tool a submissive told you was harming her and you did it anyways. If someone has you tied up and gagged and does not respect your limits, then they are abusing you, If someone has been told that a sub has abandonment issues (and he knew this) and you do not respect this limit, you are abusing them. If you derive a twisted pleasure from making another human being desparate, you have more issues than the person who is feeling desparate...

Many PEOPLE have abandonment issues, many many people.In fact probably most people that suffered divorce, or death, or a neglectful parent and suffer from this issue. If the only way someone can discipline a sub is by using tools they cannot see the result of (and if you live far away you cannot see how it impacts the sub) then perhaps you shouldnt discipline remotely at all... what a thought? I am not saying people shouldnt do that, but if the argument is you cannot guess what the reaction will be, then the counter argument could be that is precisely why you shouldnt do it....It is a huge responsibility to get into someone's head and use what you find there to "mold" them to your liking. If you chose to misuse your power over them, and then blame them for that... well I do not know what to say to that.

Lets just say I have decided that if I do not like the punishments that come my way and I decide I am being mistreated.. then I am gone now. I do not let D/s be an excuse to mistreat me.... and so the reason for the post remains... those who feel "abused" by this "tool" shouldnt feel that it is necessarily "normal" to use it. And if it is hurting you, get out. (especially if they have tried to tell their One it really hurt them, and they are not listened to).

BTW, anxiety disorders are extremely common, especially for perfectionists, and many subs are perfectionists. I think you misunderstood the reason for the post. I really do not want to debate what happened to me, I know what it was, and I do not need validation to know how I was treated was just wrong. My purpose was to help others that are on the same road I have already travelled. People can take what they want and leave the rest... its what we all do anyways.

On Edit, I was only disrespectful to this dominant ONCE. Right after I started discovering how submissive I really was, and it was quickly forgiven because 1) I wasnt his sub yet 2) I was pushing because of all the things I was finding out about myself...

Not all subs are disrespectful, many of us are not brats.. I do not consider myself to be. I try not to disrespect others period, much less my dom.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/27/2006 11:46:10 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Proprietrix)

Post #: 30

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 2:51:42 PM

TemptingNviceSub

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In some ways Julia I agree with you..people who have had abandonment issues from their past would certainly of course feel it intensely even when it is of a duration of a few days..and of course since you informed said Dom of this aspect of your character and he ignored then you were right in your decision to leave.However..first off as bitatrble said in that other post I agreed with Domme due to info given of disrespect and Domme stated she just wished to think on it and it had been only for a couple of days..second off for those of us who have no abandonment issues I am here to say if Dominant put me into ignore mode for a large amount of time I would feel not desperate but distant and as more time passes the more distant I become until any respect or feelings are gone.How do I know this of myself since I have as yet to have a D/s relationship..because it is not relegated to just D/s ..vanilla relationships also have in my case men who have done this and the result was exactly as I have stated...so no ...no despair comes from me just distance and death of said relationship..be well..and I am happy that you have a new relationship in your life..Tempting

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 31

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 5:09:27 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

You know what, I was going to reply tempting, but I am not going to, I have said all I want to about my past situation... if it helps others fine, if it just had people pick apart my past situation... well that's fine too because frankly I knew that would happen when I posted it, and was willing to accept that. I hope others that experienced similiar can benefit from the OP, and I stand behind the sentiment in it. It is not ok to emotionally blackmail people because you are the "dom". Giving a sub time to think about the relationship is different than what I was addressing and I spelled that out in the OP, so it isnt something I am going to rehash here....

It is like ANYTHING in D/s... it is not bad unless it is harming you, and then you got to stop and check yourself and where you are within the lifestyle and where you want to go and take charge of your own destiny. If you feel your better nature is being misused and abused on some level... well it probably is.. at least for YOU. And since you are the person that has to live with you, do not put up with it. Im nobody's victim, and my life reflects that.. If anyone read the thread and benefitted...well that was all I was trying to accomplish with it.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/27/2006 5:10:14 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 32

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 5:41:58 PM

MasterandCommand

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

... He would not talk to me until I complied, and then he would acknowledge my compliance, but he would still refuse to really talk to me about it (or anything else for that matter) for sometimes 2 weeks at a time. I never knew how long his forgiveness would take. It might take a week, it might take 2 days, it once took 3 weeks.

This behavior left me off balance in the relationship. This behavior touched on childhood issues of abandonment. I began to have panic attacks as a result of this form of punishment, they were the "trigger" to what was later diagnosed as mild PTSD due to my father's death. I relate this because I want those who use this "punishment" to realize the can of worms they are opening if they are not careful. Perhaps I needed this trigger to deal with these issues (which I have), but who could predict I would have faced it headlong and dealt with it, not him.

He continnued to do this even after I told him what was going on with me. He crossed the line into abuse when he did this. I write this because I see other subs so "thankful" they are "forgiven" for such slight offenses that do not merit being left in the lurch by someone they have entrusted on so many levels. I write this because it can be extremely detrimental to those going through it. D/s is not an excuse to leave someone in a panic about the relationship and manipulate them with the panic they feel at being "left". That is not healthy, that is abuse. And everytime I read one of those threads about this issue I can read the panic the submissive feels, and then sometimes they come back and praise their dom/me for forgiving them. Then the cycle starts again.

First of all were you a self proclaimed slave or a submissive? Either way, you still had the final choice of leaving...

Now, with that said...

I have worked with many that have had abandonment issues before, as well as the side issues of fear, and anger, and loss of control. Your Master was not responsible for your feelings of abandoment nor was he responsible to cure or treat you for those issues... If these issues were to much for you, then you should not have been into BDSM in the first place... that is like an hydrophobic going for a swim...

It is wrong to accuse this master for abuse for using silence within his way of doing things... do you expect that a Master will change everything or how he does things for a slave that has issues? This sounds cold but if you expect that they he really is not a master if he is controlled by his slave.

Or is this another example where the terms and meanings of submissive and slave are being re-written? Is it right for a slave to tell a Master that he cannot do such and such becasue she is having issues with it? If so, then why is she a slave in the first place...

Than it is so easy when the slave doesn't get her way that she runs around crying abuse when there is no abuse... you made the choice of this lifestyle so deal with the responsibility of your own decision and quite blaming others for your own mistake.

Take the heat or get out of the kitchen... deal with it. A slave is a slave. and you had made you choice to be there. You are not a victim... it was your decision, your responsibility.

I would have lost a lot of respect for that Master if he did change his established ways just becasue you were having issues and wanted him to stop. He had a decision to make, he made that decision... who are you as the slave to tell him he was wrong or abusive for not making the decision you wanted him to make?

This is only one side of the story written to elecit sympithetic reactions... overall it did.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 5:47:14 PM

cynthiamarie

Posts: 205
Joined: 3/11/2005
From: Bluefield, WV, USA
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Yes, I for one benefitted from this thread...thank you for starting it. You opened up an issue that needed different points of view, and for everyone reading them and participating in them, it can be an eyeopener for subs...they can see what their lives would be like under the ownership philosophies of different Masters. Knowing someone's definition of a Dominant's duties and how they choose to discipline...in advance...would prevent some people from getting attached to people who are definitely wrong for them.

IMO, a person can own a car...who has owned many cars in the past and has treated them all the same. It would be a mistake to not take into account that the new one has a gear shift and clutch when all the past cars were semi-automatic...and insists that the driving had better be the same. <Imagines crunching gears and a dead transmission before too long.>

< Message edited by cynthiamarie -- 5/27/2006 6:12:05 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 34

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 7:02:49 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I was not going to post anymore... but I could not resist.. this is from the man that on another thread accused underage girls of tricking men into statutory rape and being responsible for doms not knowing how to check an ID or knowing their with partners that are underage... I think I will just consider the source and not read the post completely through.. I know, we subs are completely responsible for everything.... rolls eyes

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

Post #: 35

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/27/2006 7:04:47 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Im glad for you got something out of it..smiles... and it is all about choices, and we do have the choice to remain in a bad situation or to change it... very true

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to cynthiamarie)

Post #: 36

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/28/2006 12:55:14 AM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I also would wonder what sort of behavior would bring a dominant to punish someone like this offline.. though would assume it's much more common in online relationships.
Celeste

You're right, this doesn't just happen with online relationships, Celeste. It may just be more prevalent online, because it's so easy just to ignore someone when your mode of communication is mainly computer.

I've never done online relationships, but the first dominant I was involved with, used this approach several times. I eventually saw through my newbie confusion, and saw it for what it was. It took a few months and could have been a lot worse if I hadn't caught on as soon as I did.

As to why he felt he could do this? Not sure. Maybe it was an egotistical power trip, maybe it was an poor excuse to take a break from being the dominant. In his case I think it was a mix of those two plus just a lazy way to deal with the duties of being a dom.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

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(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 37

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/28/2006 1:25:35 AM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterandCommand
do you expect that a Master will change everything or how he does things for a slave that has issues? This sounds cold but if you expect that they he really is not a master if he is controlled by his slave.

Or is this another example where the terms and meanings of submissive and slave are being re-written? Is it right for a slave to tell a Master that he cannot do such and such becasue she is having issues with it? If so, then why is she a slave in the first place...

I absolutely do think a dominant should and will change his approach, dependant on the personality of his sub. If he's worthy of being called a dominant, he will. Subs are individual people, we aren't all identical. You can't treat us all exactly the same.

Of course it's not okay for a person to lie about having an issue in order to get out of something they don't like...But we're not talking about that. We're talking about real triggers.

I have an issue with breathing and gags...It's perfectly okay for a dom to gag a sub, but not if the sub is me. No ifs, ands, or buts, about it. You're damn right I expect him to change his approach on gagging when it comes to me. If he's unwilling to, fair enough, then there's a door for him to exit from; we're not compatible.

To me, your response smacks of "If you don't do such-and-such, you are not a sub/slave..."

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to MasterandCommand)

Post #: 38

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/28/2006 2:36:10 AM

ladyseekinglord

Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline

When talking with a potential Dom regarding likes/dislikes, etc., I make it clear that alienation is not a form of punishment I can or will put up with. There is no worse form of punishment, in my mind.

I may be a little biased, but I find that form of punishment to be lazy and childish. It takes a lot more courage and intelligence to stay present in the relationship and deal with things in a more adult, honest and constructive manner. Of course, everyone needs time apart.

Trust is an integral part of a D/s relationship, and if one is constantly being abandoned, that destroys the trust.

lady

_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 39

RE: Serial Abandonment As Abuse - 5/28/2006 3:02:11 AM

ladyseekinglord

Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelickitten

It is such a painful form of 'punishment' that it does border on abuse when a slave is left with no indication of how long, or even in some cases of what it is that they have done wrong.

Not even knowing what you have done wrong. There is something seriously wrong in a relationship if that cannot be talked about. When getting to know someone now, I always let it be known that I need clearly defined expectations. I don't mean that I need every little thing spelled out for me, but what I do need is consistency. I don't want to feel like I have to "walk on eggshells" and forever fear upsetting Him.

lady

< Message edited by ladyseekinglord -- 5/28/2006 3:39:22 AM >

_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

(in reply to angelickitten)

Post #: 40

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