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RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 6:31:24 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Piercemenow

Wow! Thank you for all the replies. I appreciate those who caution me, but almost every aspect of S&M can be considered at least a little dangerous.

The point that was made is that some aspects are more dangerous than others.

Have a look at the Kink Aware Professionals list and see if you can find a local doc to instruct you.

You can do this, but you have shown that you don't know enough yet, and that you don't take it seriously enough.

Don't be discouraged from pursuing your kink; rather, be encouraged to pursue it in a well informed manner, so you and your partner will be able to enjoy it without harm.

I clean my camera lenses with sulfuric acid, no gloves. That's about as safe for me to do as crossing the road, because I've taken the time to learn how. And it is very effective. I am very happy with the results. However, even attempting to dilute concentrated sulfuric acid without being familiar with how to do it safely can cause you to get sprayed with a corrosive, boiling steam that sets fire to your clothing, pops your eyeballs, damages your lungs and burns your skin off. Still, I would not discourage its use by competent and risk aware adults for this task, rather encouraging them to learn how to store, handle and use it safely.

I've done dumb things out of ignorance. We all have. Taking the ignorance out of it also takes the dumb out. We may still have an accident, but there's a difference between an accident and negligence. The largest part of that difference, except the likelihood, is how you feel afterwards, and how others view it. If I get a burn working with the acid, I'll feel unfortunate. But I won't feel like a moron. And others won't think I'm "one of those" that pose a risk to others and give politicians reason to restrict individuals' legitimate access to it for those things it can do well.

The KAP list is the first stop on the way to safely and responsibly enjoying your kink.

Dismissing the risk is the first stop on the way to feeling like a moron.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Piercemenow)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 9:59:15 AM

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FR

[you clean lenses with acid ? Sounds like that would screw up the coating]

Many people self catheterize. In fact at least in this state enough do to invoke a TV ad selling catheters. Apparently people were expected to reuse catheters at one time, but for some reason now the ad says "You can use a new one each time" and that your insurance or medicaid or whatever has to pay for it.

This indicates two things. One is that more people do catheteruze themselves at home than at least I had originally thought. In fact I knew a guy who was stuck in a chair because of MS or something and we used to drink together. He would catheterize himself every trip to the bathroom, but I'm not sure he went deep. By that I mean past the muscles (pubococcal or something like that) since he did it "on demand". He was not incontinent. It was just the most convenient way for him to use the beer recycler.

However the fact that they had to concede that you get a new one each time indicates that there were probably problems. Considering where it is, the possibility of infection is quite present. Urine is sterile, and probably sterilizes on it's way out, and you are interfering with that process.

I have no idea how to tell you to sterilize a catheter enough. The ones you would use for irrigation I think would tend to be very difficult to sterilize. I would imagine boiling and then exposure to strong UV light might do it but don't bank on it.

As a gambler I think of it this way. At risk is a urinary tract infection. I think UTIs are not a common cause of death so unless you screw up the procedure really badly you will live. However it does seem possible that you could become incontinent. What's more UTIs can be very painful, and not the good kind.

Learn as much as you can, Google is your friend. Look for online instructions for people who have to do this for medical reasons. The irrigation thing is another story, I doubt many people do that at home. But the instructions for damnear anything are online, building bombs and such. And then there are Wikipedian links, which I think are fairly reliable at least.

T^T

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 12:17:46 PM

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quote:

However the fact that they had to concede that you get a new one each time indicates that there were probably problems. Considering where it is, the possibility of infection is quite present. Urine is sterile, and probably sterilizes on it's way out, and you are interfering with that process.

I have no idea how to tell you to sterilize a catheter enough. The ones you would use for irrigation I think would tend to be very difficult to sterilize. I would imagine boiling and then exposure to strong UV light might do it but don't bank on it.

Insurance companies wouldnt pay for more than "x" number of caths. And, yes, reusing a catheter can cause infections. The FDA mandated catheters be marked "single use only".

Here are the facts:

While many patients were only allowed 4 catheters per month, under the new Medicare policy changes, you can now receive up to 200 catheters per month.

Many patients before this policy change in 2008 only qualified for the use of 4 catheters per month. This means catheters designed for one-time use were required to be cleaned, boiled, dried, and re-used, sometimes up to 40 times before a new catheter is used.

Why did Medicare change its policy?

Money is a major issue – studies began to show that the re-use of catheters was increasing Medicare costs because of the higher risk for Urinary Tract Infections.

While only 1 catheter per week on average decreases the cost of supplies, the overall increase in UTIs increases hospital visits, pain & suffering caused by infections, and disrupts the quality of life for patients.

Here are the facts:

Most catheters are designed for single-use only, as labeled on their packaging.
The FDA and the Veterans Administration both agreed that sterile catheters are designed for single-use only.
The old Medicare policy encouraged the re-use of catheters.
Re-using catheters can put you at risk for Urinary Tract Infections (UTI)
Under the new Medicare policy changes in 2009, you can now qualify to receive up to 200 catheters per month.
200 catheters a month means up to 6 catheterizations per day without re-using a single catheter.

http://www.catheterguide.com/medicare-policy-change-for-urinary-catheters/

They realized it cost more to treat reoccurring UTI's than pay for the extra catheters.

So, yes, a fresh, sterile, new catheter should be used each time for kink play.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/3/2011 12:21:08 PM >

_____________________________

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 3:01:59 PM

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You know I knew that, but you were more precise. Now comes another question, once cathetered, why not stay that way ?

Let's say for at least a day, that would be 30 caths a month. Was this a knee jerk reaction ? I'll say this, I'd bet it could support a black market. But for whom ?

Home cathing is not for the incontinent. External caths could be used as well as collectors or even diapers. Many people have to home cath because of restrictions that inhibit urination. This generally means into the bladder and past all the muscles, and a damn good seal.

The rest of y'all understand, this means that you cannot stop from pissing if you want to, and if the tube is closed off (think IV regulator here) you can't piss no matter what. That means something could be pumped in there obviously. The kink possibilities are there. Perhaps a pressure regulator so you always have to go so bad, but the pressure is only let off enough so there is no physical danger, like the bladder bursting or such. And you can [maybe] walk around like that.

This can be an interesting subject for both male and female. It's all internal on a female, would be quite invasive seeming in compare to a male. But then what if a male got a hardon while catheterized ?

Just how much pressure [in PSI] does a human bladder typically hold ? And yes I ask because I am an evil genius. I', also bent on world domination if anyone wants to help. Me that is........

T^T

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 3:02:13 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

you clean lenses with acid ? Sounds like that would screw up the coating

Depends on the coating.

You obviously have to take into account the surface chemistry of the lens.

The ones I clean are titania dielectric coated ones and uncoated ones. Titania hardcoats are not dissolved by sulfuric acid in dilute form; in fact, they require concentrated sulfuric acid near boiling to be dissolved. Fused quartz is totally inert as far as sulfuric acid is concerned, and can even be subjected to a pirhana etch if you have the equipment to handle one (do not attempt this at home, ever).

The more common magnesium fluoride antireflective coatings must never be exposed to sulfuric acid, even dilute, as that will form hydrofluoric acid (extremely toxic, corrosive, reacts with water, absorbed through skin) and etch the glass to form tetrafluorosilane (very toxic, corrosive, reacts with water) and fluorosilic acid (toxic, corrosive). These are, apart from damaging the lens, very likely to damage the person working with it.

As I said, it is necessary to know how to do this safely to reap the benefits.

quote:

Many people self catheterize.

I know. I've had a urethal sphincter cramp as a drug side effect. Almost burst my bladder waiting in the ER, and had to do the self catheterization thing for a week after that. It was worth it, but I can't say it ranks as a pleasant memory.

Regardless, self catheterizing is not quite the same as injecting fluids through the catheter. When self catheterizing, you use a sterile catheter that has been allowed to soak in sterile saline for a while and then been rinsed through with saline. You bypass the sphincter with it, and the pressure causes the fluid to drain. Then you remove it. You don't go filling up your bladder again. That's irrigation, which is not directly comparable to plain catheterization.

quote:

He would catheterize himself every trip to the bathroom, but I'm not sure he went deep. By that I mean past the muscles (pubococcal or something like that) since he did it "on demand". He was not incontinent. It was just the most convenient way for him to use the beer recycler.

Incontinence does not require catheterization. Being unable to void does.

Using a catheter to direct urine wherever is convenient if you have reduced mobility.

quote:

I have no idea how to tell you to sterilize a catheter enough. The ones you would use for irrigation I think would tend to be very difficult to sterilize. I would imagine boiling and then exposure to strong UV light might do it but don't bank on it.

That sounds like a surefire way to sustain an injury.

Almost every plastic out there degrades under UV light, and boiling affects a lot of them. Chances are you will end up with a catheter that is brittle and potentially sharp, both of which are desireable to avoid. I don't much care to elaborate, but you don't want the catheter to be rigid, brittle, sharp or even dry.

quote:

I think UTIs are not a common cause of death so unless you screw up the procedure really badly you will live.

The urinary tract is not necessarily where a catheter stops...

And the fluid injected can be as much of an issue as the catheter itself (which is admittedly trivial to use, at least on oneself).

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 3:13:22 PM

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quote:

You know I knew that, but you were more precise. Now comes another question, once cathetered, why not stay that way ?

Why? for many reasons.

Leaving the catheter in creates tension, which can lead to skin breakdown, which can lead to more infections.

Bacteria can travel "up" the tube, again, increasing the risk of infection.

It also weakens the external sphincter which regulates the control of urine release.

The idea is to keep the patient as close to normal urine function as possible. If they can control the flow, but, as with someone who has spinal cord injuries, they need help with body functions, this is an alternative to an indwelling catheter.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 3:29:35 PM

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quote:

I sincerely doubt a doctor is going to give advice on how to perform medical procedures at home, in a non-sterile environment, without a medical professional present. Wouldn't that make him liable if something went wrong?

YES!!! Good christ, in this day and age of medical malpractice lawsuits, a doctor would be stupid to advise on a medical procedure without knowing the person it is being performed upon as well as to advise of a medical procedure that is not medically needed for the patient.

The fact is if you are just doing it for kink, BE HONEST with the doctor you are asking. Because they can be liable because they are advising you on how to perform same.

Have integrity and tell them why you want it and do NOT LIE or pad the truth to them. Let them decide if they still wish to advise you and if they do, they will make a record of it to cover their ass if something goes wrong.

angel

The -- i didn't tell him to do it that way -- won't work in court.

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 3:29:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

At risk is a urinary tract infection. I think UTIs are not a common cause of death so unless you screw up the procedure really badly you will live. However it does seem possible that you could become incontinent. What's more UTIs can be very painful, and not the good kind.

T^T

A UTI can lead to a kidney infection and those can cause permanent damage and in some cases death.
I have a scar on my right kidney from a UTI that in 12 hrs progressed to a kidney infection.
A bit of the kidney died and sloughed off producing the kind of pain usually associated with kidney stones as it hit the corresponding ureter.

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(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 4:21:29 PM

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It is unusual though right ?

But really in this thread, bring it up. It's just one of the risks.

It'd be a damn shame if someting used for play became a necessity.

T^T

(in reply to angelikaJ)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 5:11:57 PM

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Its not that unusual, T. UTI's can often go untreated and lead to kidney infections, pyelonephritis. Kidneys are an amazing organ... they can also be easily damaged. The danger with this kind of kink is that the fluid can back up into the kidneys if too much is instilled. Left too long as the urine backs up as well.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 5:23:15 PM

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I think the whole tract is better left unfuckedwith really. But people are going to do what they do so oh well.

Many kinky things are dangerous.

T^T

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 8:43:19 PM

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Hi Termy
remember that what the OP is suggesting, is not just self-catheters... he's talking about bladder irrigation, which takes things a step further. Lots of folks self-cath for medical reasons--most I know were taught by their physicians/NPs. Catheters aren't "lethal"--but performing invasive procedures which can have other impacts on one's physical health can have significant consequences.

To the OP
Yes, there are may activities in BDSM which have risk. Some more than others--what you are proposing is an activity that has more risk than those play activities that are less invasive.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 8:56:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

To the OP
Yes, there are may activities in BDSM which have risk. Some more than others--what you are proposing is an activity that has more risk than those play activities that are less invasive.

You know, that is people's favorite thing to say when they want to engage in something and others tell them it is dangerous. While there is some merit to the statement, overall, it's a cop out.

I mean I'm sure there is a couple out there that thinks it would be really hot to fuck her with a loaded gun. They are the same people who would give the "well all BDSM activities have some risk." There are things that someone should be very well versed in to do, and others where someone should have the intelligence to say, "no fucking way should you do that!"

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 9:08:45 PM

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FR and haus - and OP -

I don't see how this irrigation thing could be stimulating much, but I should be wrong here. Actually I could probably have a safer thing with a pressure regulator and just making them drink fluids, maybe beer but you have to watch it. But really, if someone wanted to cath me, and then I was hooked up to a pressure guage, that would be cool. I would like to know just what kind of pressure I hold. Really. I mean in the old days it seemed like I could piss across the street.

But really what kind of pressure is involved when you have to take a piss ? Simple question and I know it varies. I can drink a sixpack and not have to go yet, usually. Others can't even drink two. So all things are not equal.

There is alot to this really. The regular bag of course, and electronically remote controlled pressure regulators and valves. That's a pretty fucking intimate form of dominance.

T^T

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 9:26:17 PM

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quote:

You know, that is people's favorite thing to say when they want to engage in something and others tell them it is dangerous. While there is some merit to the statement, overall, it's a cop out.

I mean I'm sure there is a couple out there that thinks it would be really hot to fuck her with a loaded gun. They are the same people who would give the "well all BDSM activities have some risk."

Risk is our business. I have come close to VERY BIG problems with selfbondage. This is no fucking joke and I know I could have died. And I will do it again when I have the chance.

Risks. I have stood there and explained to a cop that what he felt when he was frisking me was a harness for the CB3000, which I explained. And then explained to the seargent ! That would freak 99% of the people in the world out.

And my rig, with the leather lined SS cuffs and chains, with the key up in the ice deal, yes I've done that. I could've died. One time my release mech failed and I had to break leather cuffs. Not real strong ones luckily, but it fucking hurt to break them. Then I graduated to the SS. That shit does not break.

And nobody knows. I don't recommend anyone do this but some will. And when they will they will, so telling them not to is a waste of time. In the ase of selfbondage I would rather school someone in the art of the controlled release, and making sure IT WORKS !

Telling them not to do it will just go out the other ear. And we all know it.

T^T

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/3/2011 9:40:22 PM

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quote:

I mean I'm sure there is a couple out there that thinks it would be really hot to fuck her with a loaded gun. They are the same people who would give the "well all BDSM activities have some risk." There are things that someone should be very well versed in to do, and others where someone should have the intelligence to say, "no fucking way should you do that!"

Its amazing that I dont see complaints like these against activities like fisting or anal sex. Both of which carry their own inherent complications. Fisting can cause a prolapsed rectum requiring surgery, tears that require stitches, even a perforation of the lower intestines.

I give the OP credit for knowing what to ask about. He obviously has an interest to learn.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 12/3/2011 9:41:33 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/4/2011 5:29:35 AM

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And there are definitely people out there that shouldn't do either based on the inappropriate objects that ED's find shoved up the orifices of people (referring to Tazzy's fisting/anal comment)
well.
it's your health.
your penis. your plumbing.
player beware, and truly , I hope you don't end up in the ED because of something you read on the net.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/4/2011 10:52:32 AM

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quote:

player beware, and truly , I hope you don't end up in the ED because of something you read on the net.

QFT

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/4/2011 4:57:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I mean I'm sure there is a couple out there that thinks it would be really hot to fuck her with a loaded gun. They are the same people who would give the "well all BDSM activities have some risk." There are things that someone should be very well versed in to do, and others where someone should have the intelligence to say, "no fucking way should you do that!"

Its amazing that I dont see complaints like these against activities like fisting or anal sex. Both of which carry their own inherent complications. Fisting can cause a prolapsed rectum requiring surgery, tears that require stitches, even a perforation of the lower intestines.

I give the OP credit for knowing what to ask about. He obviously has an interest to learn.

We see regular questions asking about fisting and anal sex.

And while they carry their own risk, are you seriously comparing that risk, which can be almost totally mitigated, to the risk of fucking someone with a loaded gun? Because that is how it appears.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: Internal Water Sports? - 12/4/2011 7:28:25 PM

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Im certainly not equating the risks of both activities to fucking someone with a gun.

I said each carry their own inherent risk.

Gastrointestinal perforation is a complete penetration of the wall of the stomach, small intestine or large bowel, resulting in intestinal contents flowing into the abdominal cavity. Perforation of the intestines results in the potential for bacterial contamination of the abdominal cavity (a condition known as peritonitis). Perforation of the stomach can lead to a chemical peritonitis due to leaked gastric acid. Perforation anywhere along the gastrointestinal tract is a surgical emergency.

This is just as real a risk as those listed for the catheter play. Dying from a perforated bowel is an extremely painful death... at least the one I witnessed was... and the medical literature backs that up.

I did a quick search. Other than this thread, there is only one other thread that discussed fisting and perforations. Just one post.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

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