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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:43:00 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Really? Let's say these idiots made a list of people they'd like to shoot in the back of the head then? You know, Columbine style. What then? Let them stay? Nope.


We're just gonna have to agree to disagree then. We don't usually do that but, in this case, we obviously do The idea of punishing people for something they think about doing but have not done and honestly probably have zero intention of actually attempting to do is over the top fascist behavior imo. You should hear the things I verbally threaten to do to idiot fuckin' drivers around me everyday. That doesn't mean I'd ever do it. And I don't just write it down on a list somewhere, I actually angrily exclaim it. Still doesn't mean I'd ever do it. Should I be arrested for feeling/exclaiming that in my own vehicle because I have the "potential" to do it? No fuckin' way. Neither should these idiots be thrown out of school for adding their input to this stupid list. If you start down that slippery slope, where the hell does it end?

luci


If you did write it down on a list, then yes, you could face potential problems for it.  One is an exclamation in anger, the other is premeditation.  If you can't understand the difference, then there is no amount of explaining that will help you.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:43:01 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Indeed. A LOT of people like to blame mens' bad behaviour on women. Nothing new there.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:45:49 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Kalikshama- I'll go with rape needs the threat of physical violence. Not relevant whether or not you know the person- also irrelevant number of dates etc.


Ah so drugging someone, which isnt violence, doesnt constitute as rape.

Rape is sex without consent. Drugs remove the ability to make consent. No contract between two entities will hold up in any court if the consent was obtained through coercion. Consent null and void. No consent, then its rape.


Not necessarily.  If two people are high on marijuana and have sex, calling it rape will prove difficult.  If a guy slips a roofie in a girl's drink, then she is unable to consent.  Same thing with drinking alcohol.  If the girl is willingly imbibing, there is no "coercion."

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:49:09 AM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		LL

Thank you!

TJ- I'm sorry, but your psychic powers have lead you astray....Your assumption that our first sexual encounter was our last was in error- we had other sessions involving heavy petting when we were in school together. And when she felt threatened by someone on her floor in her dorm, she asked me to spend the night (on the couch) so that she'd feel safe. Does that sound like the actions of a woman who's afraid I might rape her? Yes, it's a friendship- one with benefits that we both enjoyed.

Lucy- love you too, even if we disagree here. I know this emotionally charged turf- the sad part is how little has changed in 30 years- this is the same crap I was hearing in college.

I don't know how people expect to make good decisions based on bad data- and that's my biggest grumble with rape statistics.

Shall we try a gedunken experiment that may help illustrate why I find the oft quoted- one in four women in college will be raped to be fallacious?

Let's take a school of 1,000 people, 500 men, 500 women. One quarter of the female population is 125. Lets say a rapist attacks one woman during a "date". Does she say that she had a great time with the guy- or does she spread the word that he's a creep? So she tells 25 of her friends- and they tell 25 of their friends- and whoops- that's covered the school with a bit to spare. Let's say he manages to go out on 5 "dates" before he's poisoned and no one will go out with him. Well, that means that there have to be 25 rapists out of a class of 500 to get to the one quarter of all women in college will be raped or 5% of the population. Am I the only one that thinks that this seems a little high? So either rapists can operate undetected for longer periods of time than I'm assuming, or there are fewer rapes taking place on campus than the statistics would indicate.

LL is quite right- I'm aggravated because on one hand, these statistics wind up trivializing the attacks that have horrific costs on the victims, by claiming that lots of women get raped. This broadening of the victim pool dilutes the suffering of the people who have been most greatly impacted. It also makes far too many men out to be rapists.

Sam

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:53:30 AM   
BoxwineForBrunch


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quote:

Let's take a school of 1,000 people, 500 men, 500 women. One quarter of the female population is 125. Lets say a rapist attacks one woman during a "date". Does she say that she had a great time with the guy- or does she spread the word that he's a creep? So she tells 25 of her friends- and they tell 25 of their friends- and whoops- that's covered the school with a bit to spare. Let's say he manages to go out on 5 "dates" before he's poisoned and no one will go out with him. Well, that means that there have to be 25 rapists out of a class of 500 to get to the one quarter of all women in college will be raped or 5% of the population. Am I the only one that thinks that this seems a little high? So either rapists can operate undetected for longer periods of time than I'm assuming, or there are fewer rapes taking place on campus than the statistics would indicate.


oh. my. fucking. god.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:54:03 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

If the girl is willingly imbibing, there is no "coercion."



Actually, in some states, you will find that even if a lady has willingly imbibed, that means that she is "unable" to give consent. That sounds a bit crazy but it's true. A lady who is drunk can "consent" to sex, sober up, the next day and claim rape and her partner can be convicted. I'm not sure which states but I am almost sure that I reside in one (New Jersey) and I believe New York has a similar set up for their "requisite consent" laws.

What I find ironic is that if the lady is not capable of forming requisite consent due to being impaired by alcohol, why isn't that a valid defense for her "attacker"?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:55:41 AM   
BoxwineForBrunch


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quote:

What I find ironic is that if the lady is not capable of forming requisite consent due to be impaired by alcohol, why isn't that a valid defense for her "attacker"?


terrific point.

wait, what?

if a woman isn't able to consent to have sex then....how can a man....consent to rape her? is...is that what you're saying?

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:55:59 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Ya. Or.......how about one truth. That A LOT of women, especially young women, are too ashamed or scared to tell ANYONE they were raped. Especially if it was by someone they know.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/19/2011 10:56:13 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:57:22 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

If the girl is willingly imbibing, there is no "coercion."



Actually, in some states, you will find that even if a lady has willingly imbibed, that means that she is "unable" to give consent. That sounds a bit crazy but it's true. A lady who is drunk can "consent" to sex, sober up, the next day and claim rape and her partner can be convicted. I'm not sure which states but I am almost sure that I reside in one (New Jersey) and I believe New York has a similar set up for their "requisite consent" laws.

What I find ironic is that if the lady is not capable of forming requisite consent due to being impaired by alcohol, why isn't that a valid defense for her "attacker"?



Peace and comfort,



Michael


So, in your mind, an aggressive act under the influence is equal to a passive act under the influence?


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 10:58:24 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

if a woman isn't able to consent to have sex then....how can a man....consent to rape her? is...is that what you're saying?



Worded a bit differently: If he's guilty of rape because she wasn't sober and couldn't legally give consent (and he was as drunk as she was), wouldn't he be able to plead not guilty by reason of diminished capacity?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:00:34 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So, in your mind, an aggressive act under the influence is equal to a passive act under the influence?



No. In my mind, if over-indulgeance of alcohol is reason to "excuse" that a lady consented to certain behavior than, why isn't it a reason to "excuse" that someone acted in a way that they normally wouldn't?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 12/19/2011 11:01:29 AM >

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:05:35 AM   
LafayetteLady


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Status: offline 		Sam,

You misunderstand, I am not supporting your position at all.  I'm stating that morning after misgivings don't make it rape.  I'm stating that girls who get drunk and then willingly engage in promiscuous behavior don't get to cry rape when they are sober.  I'm not stating that a man who *thinks* a woman is still consenting when she changes her mind (and I don't care if at that point the guy has his dick halfway in) is not committing rape.  I'm talking about the women (of which there are more than a few which are skewing date rape statistics), who consent to the act, before and during the act, but who regret it the next morning.  Acts that involved no coercion, no threat of (unwanted since this is CM) physical harm, no force. 

I have seen more than a few women who, when drunk, high on pot, or on ecstasy, engage in behavior they wouldn't engage in straight.  Women who weren't unknowingly impaired on any substance.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:07:02 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So, in your mind, an aggressive act under the influence is equal to a passive act under the influence?



No. In my mind, if over-indulgeance i of alcohol is reason to "excuse" that a lady consented to certain behavior than, why isn't is a reason to "excuse" that someone acted in a way that they normally wouldn't?

Peace and comfort,

Michael


Aside from the fact that I personally do not accept the "I was drunk so didn't know what I was doing." from EITHER PARTY, male or female. My POINT in my previous statement was that for ME, it's a huge gray area. The mere fact that anyone is drunk or not isn't the issue for me. If a person is victimizing another, I don't care whether either party is intoxicated, the aggressor is still responsible for their behaviour.

I also don't support the idea that a woman could consent then use the, "I was drunk and didn't know what I was doing." after she drunkenly consented, to slap a guy with a rape charge. That falls into my philosophy of personal responsibility. So to ME, the lame excuse of...."well I was drunk..." is not an acceptable excuse for poor behaviour from ANYONE when discussing any behavioural issue.

Word of wisdom to the guys........don't fuck drunk chicks. Problem solved!


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/19/2011 11:09:07 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:08:36 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
TJ- I'm sorry, but your psychic powers have lead you astray....Your assumption that our first sexual encounter was our last was in error- we had other sessions involving heavy petting when we were in school together. And when she felt threatened by someone on her floor in her dorm, she asked me to spend the night (on the couch) so that she'd feel safe. Does that sound like the actions of a woman who's afraid I might rape her? Yes, it's a friendship- one with benefits that we both enjoyed.
Sam

no, I never said she was afraid you might rape her. Obviously on the night she was crying, she did not think of you as a potential lover, or she would not have been crying in the bedroom. If she wasnt ready to have sex at that point and she was crying, then who was pushing for sex and manoeuvring her into the bedroom? it does not sound like it was her (or she wouldnt have been crying). What happened in sessions after that doesnt have any bearing on what happened that specific night.

And i disagree with LL on your aggravation being the drinking thing.. early on in this thread you basically romanticised rape by saying it was "passion" out of control.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:08:44 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

.

Were this list: "Who would you like to fuck ..." I'd be telling anyone with anything negative to say to sit down and shut up but just the changing of that one word, to me,......................

Michael


Agreed.

As I was reading, I was thinking if this had just been "Who would you like to do?" it would only rise to the level of locker room trash talk. Girls talk about the same things.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:12:43 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

If the girl is willingly imbibing, there is no "coercion."



Actually, in some states, you will find that even if a lady has willingly imbibed, that means that she is "unable" to give consent. That sounds a bit crazy but it's true. A lady who is drunk can "consent" to sex, sober up, the next day and claim rape and her partner can be convicted. I'm not sure which states but I am almost sure that I reside in one (New Jersey) and I believe New York has a similar set up for their "requisite consent" laws.

What I find ironic is that if the lady is not capable of forming requisite consent due to being impaired by alcohol, why isn't that a valid defense for her "attacker"?

Peace and comfort,


Michael


Actually Michael I live in NJ also and it isn't quite that simple.  Those are the kinds of cases that people are likely to complain go unprosecuted, but the actions of the victim (consenting while drunk) do make the case difficult to prove.

There are several laws that are designed to "protect women."  In Florida, statutory rape occurs any time a person over 18 has sex with someone under (I'm pretty sure) 17.  The law goes so far as to literally state that if the underage person showed a fake ID indicating they were over 18 AND knowingly willfully consented to the act (and doesn't recant that consent was made), the prosecution can still be made, and in Florida it is not a rare occurance.

And I do get angry about drunk women who wake up sober the next morning and want to cry rape because they regret having sex with the guy (willingly) the night before.  To me, it is no different than the myriad of women who claim domestic violence as a means to try to gain an advantage during a divorce/custody battle.  It serves to make things more difficult for the women who are suffering from true domestic violence, or who did experience real date rape.  Those women are also part of the reason that prosecutions are hard to obtain in legitimate cases.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:15:43 AM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

And i disagree with LL on your aggravation being the drinking thing.. early on in this thread you basically romanticised rape by saying it was "passion" out of control.


You want to clarify this?  Because I NEVER mentioned anything about "passion" in my posts.

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:17:31 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

And i disagree with LL on your aggravation being the drinking thing.. early on in this thread you basically romanticised rape by saying it was "passion" out of control.


You want to clarify this?  Because I NEVER mentioned anything about "passion" in my posts.

no, he said that

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RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:23:38 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

It serves to make things more difficult for the women who are suffering from true domestic violence, or who did experience real date rape.  Those women are also part of the reason that prosecutions are hard to obtain in legitimate cases.



I made this very same point, earlier. False claims only help to desensitize or "bastardize" actual claims that should be prosecuted and for which the perpatrator should be made to pay.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Name who you would like to rape on campus - 12/19/2011 11:24:00 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Aside from the fact that I personally do not accept the "I was drunk so didn't know what I was doing." from EITHER PARTY, male or female. My POINT in my previous statement was that for ME, it's a huge gray area. The mere fact that anyone is drunk or not isn't the issue for me. If a person is victimizing another, I don't care whether either party is intoxicated, the aggressor is still responsible for their behaviour.

THIS is my POV
For me, and if I was to take that attitude I could have used it as an excuse against about ten guys, where as I dont and wont.. I learned my way around that, it certainly didnt work as an excuse 30 years ago. I wouldnt wanna be young anymore
Ive felt shame, guilt and OMG did I really do that.too many times, but compares to sober violent rape not even close, that is just my personal opinion.
Unfortunately its going to take generations and significant law and mental changes to be accepted before "rape" is seen the way the victims feel

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