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New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Focus ... - 12/17/2011 12:45:04 PM

outlier

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WOW, This could be a real game changer.

This story is about a first generation of a new technology
to reach the market. If this works as well as it seems to,
then it will empower people to just snap away and focus later.

Look at the examples. You could actually get two very different
looking pictures from one shot. Also, because the photographer
will not have to take the time to focus you will have the ability
to capture spontaneous moments, then focus them later.

It will be interesting to see if they try to hold this as proprietary
or license it to one or more of the big camera names.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by outlier -- 12/17/2011 1:40:52 PM >

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/17/2011 12:58:55 PM

ashjor911

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NICE

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my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/17/2011 1:55:47 PM

laborboleta

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That is SO COOL!!! Want one!!

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/17/2011 2:23:05 PM

Termyn8or

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I postulate that because of the way this thing gathers data, the technology could eventually be used to build a single sensor 3D camera. It obviously has the depth data. With the state of the art of computers today, it would probably be something along the lines of a Fourier(sp) transform.

There already IS true 3D display technology out there, no glasses no nuthing.

The old camcorder and VCR just ain't as appealing anymore, but I don't see the price tags.

T^T

(in reply to outlier)

Post #: 4

RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/17/2011 8:57:12 PM

GreedyTop

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WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/18/2011 9:48:39 AM

outlier

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Yes, This is a shiny new with appeal.

I know people who have made camera buying decisions based partially
on how clear the focusing system worked, so they could get quick shots.
Ground glass vs split image vs overlapping images.

If/When this becomes the accepted standard I can just hear old photographers
telling young ones: "You don't know how easy you have it! We used to have to
focus our pics on the spot! And then we could only take the number we had
on the film...etc...etc. Some things seem to be getting better.

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Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/18/2011 9:52:24 AM

Termyn8or

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Hell at one time we used to have to get up and change the TV channel ! No shit !

And I bet these whipper shnappers today have no clue why it's called "dialing" a telephone.

T^T

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/18/2011 2:29:58 PM

Aswad

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Actually, the technology isn't all that new.

What's reasonably new, is that we are starting to get to the point where it's more a question of someone forking over the cash required to mass produce, than an actual question of whether it's feasible. The latest generation 50Mpx chips have just enough resolution for this, if you use three of them (like in the 3CCD cameras; incidentally, anyone that has one for parts is encouraged to drop me a line about that... I want the prism). However, the effective resolution you get is substantially lower than with a focused camera, and that will impact marketing, since people don't understand that digits only make sense with an attached meaning. For the pros, the drawback will be reduced sensitivity to light, since you're effectively getting 50Mpx level light sensitivity (shaite) with 10Mpx or lower effective resolution.

Focus bracketing is close enough for most of us, but it's an interesting technology.

If you really want to play with it on the cheap, get a uni student to design you an objective based on parts from Surplus Shed or the like, where the focal length is heavily dependent on wavelength. The Bayer filter on the imager will not give an ideal separation, but it's close enough that with a bit of work, you can get the basics down well enough to start playing with it.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/18/2011 3:17:33 PM

Termyn8or

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If you need a prism and can give the specs on it I might be able to find one scrap out of an LCD projo light engine that should do. The BIG problem is the dichroics. Is it a simple prism or does it include a dichroic coating ? ( and what, pray tell happened to it ? )

The other question is whether with the sensitivity afforded these days, the lens aperature could be closed enough to make depth of focus so deep that it wouldn't matter. In the picture provided, how far apart you think the two subjects are ? If the cats are the same size say what ? One is about a half meter away and the other is perahps two meters ? It could be more because of the way that works..... inverse square like, but I think that a good guess. This IS just an estimation. Someone could however do a study on it....... That is someone with too much time on their hands.

But that is an issue, does this actually exceed what could be done with a deeper focus range that a superior sensor could provide under the right conditions ? That's not to discount the technology, I think it is quite valuable techjnology really, and even if it doesn't sell for this purpose, there is a use for it somewhere.

T^T

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/20/2011 3:35:05 AM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

If you need a prism and can give the specs on it I might be able to find one scrap out of an LCD projo light engine that should do. The BIG problem is the dichroics. Is it a simple prism or does it include a dichroic coating ? ( and what, pray tell happened to it ? )

That's kind of the thing. It's a dichro prism.

Think of it like four right angle prisms with their short faces joined to make up a cross. The coating is applied to the cross, deflecting blue and red to the lateral faces, while the green exits the medial face. Depending on the coating details, near infrared may be rejected or passed through with the green channel. It will split or join the RGB bands effectively, without the need for a soldered kinematic mount to lock a discrete set of dichroic mirrors in place. Real neat, though the majority aren't very high fidelity, being intended for TV resolution use after all the other optics.

I'm not looking to repair anything with it. I'm looking to stick it into something. Let's just say I don't want to bring any solder into a hard sealed vacuum, and would prefer to avoid breaching it for realignment every now and them. That said, if you fix projectors for a living, I'm sure we could find some mutually beneficial arrangements as to pulls and the like.

quote:

But that is an issue, does this actually exceed what could be done with a deeper focus range that a superior sensor could provide under the right conditions ? That's not to discount the technology, I think it is quite valuable techjnology really, and even if it doesn't sell for this purpose, there is a use for it somewhere.

There's plenty of uses for it, but the main use is unlikely to be permitted in a consumer camera: seeing through obstacles.

Basically, since you're capturing the lightfield, rather than the net irradiance, you can subtract light that arrives from an intervening obstacle, while light from the target is emphasized, giving you the ability to see through brushes, coarsely woven clothing, camouflage, light foilage and so forth. Betcha these beauties will be on the next generation of satelites.

For just fixing focus depth stuff, an electrowetting lens with fast bracketing will do a better job.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/20/2011 10:24:31 AM

Termyn8or

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"That's kind of the thing. It's a dichro prism."

I shoulda figured that.......

To find one I'll have to dig up a light engine that was scrapped for a different reason. Alot of them are scrapped for color problems which can be due to the dichroics or the polarizing filters. I should be able to tell, but that requires me to see it in operation before it comes apart.

But what you describe is exactly what is in those things.

As far as technology not allowed to be public, many years ago some "new" low light video cameras came out and someone with too much time on their hands found out that with a certain filter it could see through clothing. I know they have this at some airports now but this was a long time ago and is most likely the basis for the technology, possibly discovered by accident. They were recalled with great threat. Now had someone bought one for cash and gave a fake name, never sent in the warranty registration and.........

Anyway, what you seek is found in any tri panel LCD projector. They do not have a long lifespan and unfortunately that is many times due to optical problems. However there are other expensive parts to go bad, the trick is to see the problem. Id it can modulate and display all three colors it's good. It would be nice to find one with a smoldering power supply after a lightning strike or something like that. If they sell them in your area you should be able to find one locally. If not I could see what I can dig up.

T^T

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/23/2011 6:35:14 AM

Aswad

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Finding locally, not so difficult. Getting, that's usually the hard part. The returns bin is routinely sledgehammered now, to prevent people from stealing their garbage. Go figure. I'm sure the environmental dept will be thrilled that they're smashing stuff with restricted volatiles in it.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 12

RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/23/2011 12:37:43 PM

Termyn8or

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"The returns bin is routinely sledgehammered now, to prevent people from stealing their garbage"

Oh, they do that in the good countries too ?

OK, I know of one maybe. I do believe I own it because I took it in to work and never got paid for it. The light engine was bad due to a burnt blue polarizing filter. I wasn't there when it was torn down but they reported their findings to me. They didn't realize it was a polarizing filter so they replaced it with a similarly colored piece of plastic. I should have been there because I would never have allowed it after seeing the symptom.

Originally there was a blue splotch in the middle of the picture. With that part of the polarizing filter gone of course it could not modulate the blue light path. However this is done where the colors are separated. The part you seek is right at the output to the projection lens and there are no polarizing elements there.

That's from :

http://www.avitav.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=187&Itemid=246

Next time I'm at work I'll have a look around. I can pretty much just grab one no matter what. I don't think they go bad much, therefore we don't have a great need for this part.

I would still call around to some TV shops ( you do have TV shops there no ? ). The main thing is that it must come from a three panel LCD projector.

T^T

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 12/23/2011 12:48:37 PM >

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RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/23/2011 8:10:42 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

WOW, This could be a real game changer.

This story is about a first generation of a new technology
to reach the market. If this works as well as it seems to,
then it will empower people to just snap away and focus later.

Look at the examples. Y

When they come up with a way for me to orgasm now and do foreplay when I'm asleep....I'm in.

(in reply to outlier)

Post #: 14

RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/23/2011 8:46:32 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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They used to, it was called a grope suit. I can't find the original description but they put your ass in it and you are in constant orgasm, and they peel it off you after you are passed out.

I tried to get one and even eBay let me down. Fuckin hard to get to say the least.

T^T

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Post #: 15

RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/23/2011 9:25:10 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

They used to, it was called a grope suit. I can't find the original description but they put your ass in it and you are in constant orgasm, and they peel it off you after you are passed out.

I tried to get one and even eBay let me down. Fuckin hard to get to say the least.

T^T

Bastards.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 16

RE: New Camera Technology: Shoot Picture Then Choose Fo... - 12/24/2011 10:08:08 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Oh, they do that in the good countries too ?

What makes you think we're a good country?

quote:

Next time I'm at work I'll have a look around. I can pretty much just grab one no matter what. I don't think they go bad much, therefore we don't have a great need for this part.

That would be cool.

quote:

I would still call around to some TV shops ( you do have TV shops there no ? ). The main thing is that it must come from a three panel LCD projector.

Yeah. Thing is, there's like two TV shops in the whole country.

The bulk of the population isn't discerning enough to go to a specialist shop. They just want the inches with the usual bells and whistles. Even the grocery stores have a selection in the 35-50" range, while most go to the electronics stores (same place you'll find your dishwashers and shit), where the 40-120" range is common. It's my impression that the average middle class family goes for something like a 50" HDTV screen in the living room, while the people who like movies throw in a 6.1 surround rig that fits their furniture. Factor in the tax disparity, that's on par with the cost of a 120" projector rig and a 7.2 system in the USA. Now that 3DTV is available, people are switching their "old" screens for the new 3D ones.

I've found perfectly functional 52" plasma screens in the garbage bin.

Of course, the poles know not to waste all the nice shit we throw out, so they come around in their vans after closing time and scavenge through the "returns station" (a sort of garbage bin for electronics and fridges and ovens and such things) to grab salvageable stuff. The problem being they tend to dump everything they don't keep in nature, rather than taking their waste back to the station. I suspect that, as much as the large scale scavenging, is why the stores now break it thoroughly before putting it in the bin. It's likely also why they've started actively prosecuting people who "steal" garbage.

The two existing TV shops aren't the sort of people to call about this, though I might have an idea about a place that may potentially have something on hand. It's crazy consumption, all this shit. After all the CRTs went out of circulation, so did the few remaining repair shops. These days, repairs are done only on some antiquities, and the people who do it are generally private individuals in the relevant special interest communities. I've not seen more than one repair shop in the second largest city in the country, and that's a one man shop, and the guy has a day job. He's more likely to see an old Tandberg Silver Super valve radio than a projector, though he could likely do a fine job with one.

I take it U.S. service centers do more than verify the claim that shit is broken before signing off on a free replacement?

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 17

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