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9 Volt? - 10/24/2004 5:57:21 AM

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I recently chatted with a Dom who told me He uses a 9 volt battery on subs. *New to me* you know how if you stick your tongue to it you get this little shock? Well He uses it on there clit and surrounding areas.

Is this something new? Think it can be harmful in some way?

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/24/2004 7:32:49 AM

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Eww !

i remember as a child the first time an adult showed me how to check to see if a 9 volt battery was dead or not. i HATE that tingly sensation it gives off as it touches the tip of the tongue !!! It still freaks me out to this day each time i have to test one. So nice that batteries today have the little test strips to squeeze instead.

quote:

Well He uses it on there clit and surrounding areas. Is this something new? Think it can be harmful in some way?

Is this something new?
*crosses fingers of both hands behind her back while fumbling for a good reply* Uhhh... oh, errr.. i tried this once. *coughs* It was soooo boring. Held no appeal or excitement for me at ALL. If anything at all, it was a highly relaxing experience. i enjoyed it sooooo much. In fact, i fell asleep at least 3 times in a matter of 10 minutes, woke and then decided to file my nails and balance my checkbook until the experience came to an end. Not even worth using up the juices of a good battery ... such a waste. I'll bet is it harmful too! *nodding with her best attempt at being as convincing as she knows how* Although it never caused damage to the tip of my tongue, i bet it could cause all of the cells to mutate & nerve endings of a clit to vibrate until it falls right off, requiring immediate emergency medical attention. Uh huh... yep.

*whispering to subbiejenn ... * That's my story & i'm sticking to it ! *He* does read these forums, loves new ideas and i know that this one could interest Him if He's never tried it. i'd be pretty certain and willing to bet that should He think such a thing could freak me out a bit, He'll be even more than just a little bit enthused in bringing such an idea into play. So, for your ears only,

i've never tried this, never heard of it being done, and am not certain i want to even find out if the effect is comparible with a clit and a tongue. Ya didn't hear that from me though.

P.S. As for my opinion on whether it could cause any harm, it's just a guess .... but, i doubt it. As a licensed cosmetologist of 10 years, i'm trained in the application of shock therapy to the scalp with various impliments involving electrical currents (never received any requests for such treatments from my clientel however ... so i don't get to do it. Bummer!

). Knowing the risks associated with that type of stimulus, i'd have to doubt that a 9 volt battery could cause any lasting damage to the skin, and/or underlying nerves.

< Message edited by cynnacent1 -- 10/24/2004 7:45:15 AM >

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/25/2004 12:23:52 AM

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9 volt batteries are considered harmless unless you throw them at someone, stick it in someone's eye or shove it up their nose....

I've used a 9 volt battery in play many times. It works very well on a sweaty penis and testicles. (Sorry all you men who just winced)

Link to help you understand the effects of electricity on the human body: http://acept.la.asu.edu/courses/phs110/ds/appendixC.html

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/25/2004 9:41:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress
I've used a 9 volt battery in play many times. It works very well on a sweaty penis and testicles. (Sorry all you men who just winced)

Its your job to make us wince. As I've said, a tough job, but sombody's got to do it!

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/25/2004 10:49:48 AM

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Thank You -- Thank You!!

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/25/2004 1:10:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

I've used a 9 volt battery in play many times. It works very well on a sweaty penis and testicles. (Sorry all you men who just winced)

Wince? I've just bookmarked this page and sent an Email to the missus...

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/25/2004 1:59:10 PM

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*giggles* let me know what You think of it !!

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/25/2004 5:06:04 PM

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Another device similar to a 9 volt is a piezo stimulator pen Here is a link to what they are: http://www.healthiswealthmaui.com/Acupressure%20Tools.htm This type of pen delivers a small shock. I find the one I have to be too mild. Do keep in mind that I use a TENS on a high setting, so my idea of mild may be much more intense than yours.

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/27/2004 11:57:09 AM

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Here is some research on the subject that I released on another bondage web site. Hope it's useful. :)

The amount of current released by a battery is governed by the reiststance of the conducting medium it is connected to, as well as the capacity and internal reisitance of the battery. For discussion here, the first factor is most important.

The following resistances are measured across the approximate distance between the contacts of a 9 volt battery. These are rounded off somewhat.

Geek Finger: 5,000,000 ohms
gormflaith's finger: 6,000,000 ohms
Geek Forearm: 8,000,000 ohms
gormflaith forearm: resistance exceeded equipment sensitivity
30% Sodium Chloride in tapwater: 17,000 ohms.
Geek Saliva: 200,000 ohms

Sample subjects in paper a cited below: 500,000 to 600,000 ohms
Note that the distance between contacts those researchers used is unknown.

I may try later this evening to get a measurement of vaginal lubrication and see if it differs from the test liquid above. This will depend on schedule and mood of my test subject. :-) I suspect that vaginal lubrication would have a resistance between that of the test liquid and saliva.

The amount of current in an electrical circuit is equal to the supply voltage in volts divided by the resistance of the circuit in ohms.

So,

GeekFinger 9 volts /5,000,000 ohms = 1.8 microamps
GeekForearm 9 volts / 8,000,000 ohms = 1.1 microamps
Test liquid 9 volts / 17,000 ohms = 5400 microamps (5.4 milliamps)
Geek Saliva 9 volts / 200,000 ohms = 45 microamps

The research paper (a) cited below noted physical changes in color to contact sites and tissue damage when the exposure exceeded 5 seconds per application. The paper also noted that the average current amount a subject could detect was 150 microamps, but that the figure varied wildly by subject. Another study (b) shows 100 microamps to be the threshhold of detection, and 10 milliamps produced "mild sensations". 30 milliamps can produce muscular paralysis.

A nine volt alkaline battery produces about 500 milliamps of current on a dead short. If this current was placed directly across the heart, fibrilation would occur. However, this placement would be extremely difficult within the realm of safe, sane, and consentual play. Also the close proximity of the positive and negagive terminals limit the possibility of muscular paralysis because it would be extremely dfficult to place a muscle in the current path.

Bottom line, an 9 volt alkaline battery should be safe for vaginal or other topical application for short duration "zaps", just keep it moving!

References:
a In vivo human-skin electrical conduction and pain sensations
M. R. Voegelin (1), G. Paoli (2) and M. Zoppi (2)
http://www.sif.it/cimento/tocd/019.06/07/07.html

b Electrical shock precautions
http://pchem.scs.uiuc.edu/pchemlab/electric.htm

A_G

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/27/2004 1:03:48 PM

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wow thanks *smiles*

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/27/2004 3:21:26 PM

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Are your impedance figures using the tip of a ohm meter's probes, a wire, or something similarly small? Because I've done the same with larger areas of contact and found wildly divergent results. If you have someone hold a couple of aluminum or steel cans, using a comfortable grip, and hook those up to a ohm meter, I think you will find an impedance of 1500-4500 ohms in most cases, and quite a bit lower if their hands are wet or sweaty. Same for foot-foot current, hand-foot current, etc. Using an ohm meter's probes (with a tiny fraction of the surface area) with a drop of water on each probe to improve contact will also drop hand-to-hand resistance to about 10,000-25,000 ohms. One can also notice this by touching a 9V battery to the tongue for a second. The most conservative estimate for the threshold of perceptability (the figure you cited) is 100 microamps, but because the battery contacts have more surface area than a wire/probe, you will conduct well over 45 microamps (the amount you estimated using a probe(?)), and will thus feel the electricity. If 45 uA was all you were getting, a 9V on a clit would do nothing at all, and from what I gather that is emphatically NOT the case.

People seem to conduct fairly well, if you can get past the crappy skin electrodes they come with.

Looking around for some confirmation, I found this page (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_3/4.html), where they also noticed about 1,000,000 ohms resistance for a touch with a wire, but as low as 1,000 ohms with better contacts. They also had the following handy table:

BODILY EFFECT DIRECT CURRENT (DC) 60 Hz AC 10 kHz AC
---------------------------------------------------------------
Slight sensation Men = 1.0 mA 0.4 mA 7 mA
felt at hand(s) Women = 0.6 mA 0.3 mA 5 mA
---------------------------------------------------------------
Threshold of Men = 5.2 mA 1.1 mA 12 mA
perception Women = 3.5 mA 0.7 mA 8 mA
---------------------------------------------------------------
Painful, but Men = 62 mA 9 mA 55 mA
voluntary muscle Women = 41 mA 6 mA 37 mA
control maintained
---------------------------------------------------------------
Painful, unable Men = 76 mA 16 mA 75 mA
to let go of wires Women = 51 mA 10.5 mA 50 mA
---------------------------------------------------------------
Severe pain, Men = 90 mA 23 mA 94 mA
difficulty Women = 60 mA 15 mA 63 mA
breathing
---------------------------------------------------------------
Possible heart Men = 500 mA 100 mA ?
fibrillation Women = 500 mA 100 mA ?
after 3 seconds
---------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, at 60 Hz AC, as little as 15 volts could cause a woman to be in severe pain, to be unable to break contact with the electrodes, and to have difficulty breathing. Fibrillation has been reported with as little current as 17 mA, so 17 volts (@60 Hz AC) is potentially fatal. Fortunately, batteries are safer (being DC), so nothing under 35 volts or so should be life threatening. No guarantees about harmlessness, though, if you keep that voltage flowing for any length of time.

I'd advise a healthy measure of respect for electricity. Just the fact that you may absorb literally thousands of times more power simply by having better contacts is enough to give one pause. The fact that the human nervous system is not designed to handle electrical potentials of over 1/10 of a volt is food for thought too.

< Message edited by NoCalOwner -- 10/27/2004 3:24:37 PM >

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 8:38:10 AM

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My figures are for resistance, not impedence since all research was done in response to a question about use of a nine volt battery for application to human genitals. Since the initial inquiry was about applied DC current (a battery), my research went in that direction.

The setup I used for testing was a 9 volt battery clip attached to a digital VOM. This allowed the measurements to be a reasonable approximation of the device in question for this thread, a nine volt battery.

The papers I cited indicate that the sensitivity threshold varied wildly by subject, so I'm taking that to mean at least plus or minus 50 percent.
As for the threshold of pain figures you cited, NoCalOwner, I doubt the researchers you mention were applying current to genitalia, but to fingers, forearms and the like which is a much more likely accident scenario in hobbiest or industrial accidents.

Given the close proximity of the terminal of a nine volt battery, the relatively small contact area of the terminals, and the voltage involved, I state again: safe for play, just keep it moving, less than 5 seconds in any one particular spot. A person would be incredibly hard pressed to induce cardiac fibrilation with a nine volt battery. Opening the chest cavity during safe, sane, and consentual play so a duracell can be applied to the ticker? I gotta call "Crimson Fucking Red" on that one.

Of course, take this with the same amount of seriousness as anything else you read on the internet. I suppose that it's possible that I just made this crap up and posted it. *chuckle* Do your own research, play responsibly!

I must echo NoCalOwners statement, respect electricity. Make sure you know what you're doing before play.

A_G, whose healthy respect for electricity once caused him to wreck a DVM because his vibrating pager went off when he was taking measurements on a 110 volt AC circuit. Imagine his suprise and confusion when the tingling, buzzing sensation continued after the volt meter had hit the floor!

< Message edited by AlphaGeek -- 10/28/2004 8:58:38 AM >

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 9:59:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlphaGeek
My figures are for resistance, not impedence since all research was done in response to a question about use of a nine volt battery for application to human genitals.

No biggie, since batteries are DC (and people don't act as capacitors in series), impedance = resistance.

quote:

As for the threshold of pain figures you cited, NoCalOwner, I doubt the researchers you mention were applying current to genitalia, but to fingers, forearms and the like which is a much more likely accident scenario in hobbiest or industrial accidents.

I'm sure that most available figures use fingers, and that none use genitalia. Were it otherwise, we would have both cited the figures for genitals, no doubt. Alas, one can only use data that exist, so we're stuck with fingers.

quote:

Given the close proximity of the terminal of a nine volt battery, the relatively small contact area of the terminals, and the voltage involved, I state again: safe for play, just keep it moving, less than 5 seconds in any one particular spot. A person would be incredibly hard pressed to induce cardiac fibrilation with a nine volt battery. Opening the chest cavity during safe, sane, and consentual play so a duracell can be applied to the ticker? I gotta call "Crimson Fucking Red" on that one.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think that 9V would pose a fibrillation risk. I said that 17 mA was the lowest current where fibrillation had been reported, and that was with AC. Since I also recommended assuming 1000 ohms resistance, the most a 9V could do would be 9 mA, around 1/4 the current and 1/16 the power that I said would be dangerous with DC ("...nothing under 35 volts should be life threatening.").

The figures for fibrillation are based on current running through the chest cavity, not inside of it, so circuits like from one hand to the other, or from hand to foot, would be the thing to worry about in electrical play. I skipped the subject of electrical dangers during surgery since it seemed irrelevant, and because they're not very different from the dangers at any other time.

My only purpose in posting was to make sure that people were aware of big variables like quality of electrical contact. It would be a major bummer if people took >5,000,000 ohms as human resistance in general, since that would mean that they need not worry about anything under 85,000 volts AC (what it would take to draw 17 mA of current at 5,000,000 ohms), or around 340,000 volts DC. That's 170 times the voltage and 28,900 times the power of a typical electric chair. That would be a bad idea for people to have, hence my post.

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 12:20:30 PM

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*sighs* Thank You for all the information (both of You) but little to technical for me -- i am confused now *LOL*

Just yes or no is it safe to do?

Any long term affects?

*smiles*
~jenn~

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 12:35:42 PM

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subjenn,

It's safe provided you don't leave the battery parked on any one spot for more than a few seconds.

There should be no long term effects if used in this manner.

Have fun, play safe, and just smile and nod at the technobabble. We'll be discussing Plasma Waveguides and their effect on Warp Drive efficiency before you know it, should this madness continue. LOL

NoCalOwner, I think we can both agree that given all the statistics we both cited, and the research results I published that specifically address the 9 volt connector vs human skin, that play with a nine volt battery in the genital area is safe provided current isn't applied for long periods of time, and is applied by someone other than the test subject/current recipient/prank victim/subbie. Ok, maybe not safe in the prank victim scenario... prank victims often seek retribution. To address alternating current, voltages higher than 9, and other electrical issues is outside the scope of the original question.

A_G, who has finished speaking on this subject.

< Message edited by AlphaGeek -- 10/28/2004 12:49:36 PM >

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 1:30:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbiejenn

Just yes or no is it safe to do?

Any long term affects?

The main danger from electricity is that it will make your heart malfunction. Some items which are powered by a 9V battery can do that, but for a 9V battery alone to do it would require extremely freakish circumstances. Even then, no harm would be done immediately, and the person being shocked would probably experience things like difficulty breathing or "charliehorse" effects on their muscles at the same time, which should warn any sensible person that they were overdoing it. Unless you were playing with someone who had a very bad heart or problems with cardiac arrythmia (who you probably shouldn't be playing with anyway), you'd have to do something straight out of the Darwin Awards to seriously injure them with brief contact from a 9 volt battery.

The human nervous system runs on voltages which are almost always less than 1/12 of a volt. I don't know about risk of things like nerve damage from lengthy or repeated exposures to low voltages (like 9V DC), but it's not a topic that I've really looked into. The only very damning things I have come across were from people who were involved in class action litigation over stuff like electromagnetic fields from power lines or microwave ovens, and their findings seem to be outside the scientific mainstream. So, to sum up, I don't think it would be harmful in moderation, but I haven't found any definite answers. I'm also not a neurologist (or otherwise legally an expert on the subject), so if you do manage to damage some nerves with a 9V, don't bother naming me in any lawsuits.

< Message edited by NoCalOwner -- 10/28/2004 2:31:48 PM >

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 6:16:18 PM

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hehehe thanks Guys!

quote:

you'd have to do something straight out of the Darwin Awards to seriously injure them with brief contact from a 9 volt battery.

if ya'll see a girl on the news dying from a 9V and i disappear from the forum, please post in forum ITS NOT SAFE!! guess i will be the guinea pig unless proud wants to do it? LOL

*smiles*
~jenn~

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 7:50:10 PM

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quote:

guess i will be the guinea pig unless proud wants to do it? LOL

HUH???? You go right ahead jenn.

Let me know.

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 8:01:00 PM

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I tried this with my last sub - holding the 9 volt against her clit - nothing nada the big fat pffffftttttttt - so, first thought, bad battery - had her stick out her tongue and whoohoooo - okay so its not the battery - chek and make sure she is wet enough - no problem there, its an hour or so into playtime, plenty of fluids sloshing around down there - so try again - against the clit - nothing - try it on inner labia - nice and wet - nothing - so I had come to the conclusion that this was just urban legend - or maybe it has something to do with the vaginal juices not being salty enough to be a good conductor - I dont know, but would be interested in learning the results of your self experimentation jenn - or maybe I ll take a page out of BeachMystress' book and just apply it to sweaty areas next time (sweat -> salty liquid -> good conductor)

Just my tuppence.

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RE: 9 Volt? - 10/28/2004 8:49:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

I tried this with my last sub - holding the 9 volt against her clit - nothing nada the big fat pffffftttttttt - so, first thought, bad battery - had her stick out her tongue and whoohoooo - okay so its not the battery

both of the posts need to make very firm contact. We're talking to the point where they're whining about how hard you are pressing the battery. It may be that some of the flesh has to actually bulge into the posts for good contact to be made.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

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