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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:18:54 AM   
xssve


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I use the the Thesaurus more than the dictionary, I usually skip the dictionary and go straight to Wikipedia.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:20:55 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That's a good line of Hemmingway's (and parroting a still better line of Twain's), but it's still a fact that Hemmingway style underwriting has proved a far more pernicious influence on American literature than Faulkner style over writing in the long run. Hemmingway made a point of using exactly the right word rather than rambling around it with a phrase or two, which is the sort of minimalism that works.

Besides, he was a man who took a lot of care and effort in his use of English, so a load of blather about Hemingway isn't really an excuse for somebody who can't spell, doesn't have a clue about grammar, and couldn't write a clear and communicative sentence if their life depended on it, is it? That isn't a style that's been pared of all fripperies and irrelevances, it's just ill mannered contempt for whoever you're trying to talk with, and there's no excuse for that.
Conrad is, I believe, considered the best writer in the English language, Hemmingway is adolescent by comparison, at least in terms of content. Henry James is sometimes mentioned, but even I have difficulty following the Shakespearan complexities of his prose.

I have been compared to Faulkner myself, not necessarily favorably.

In short, there is a distinction between saying something and having something meaningful to say, and while there is certainly a threshold of articulation vs. confusion, intelligence covers both expression and comprehension - also raised is the issue of character, intelligence, per se, doesn't axiomatically correlate with educational level, the world is full of highly educated, insincere, self centered assholes.

Not does character correlate with wealth, but that's another subject.


Conrad? I thought he'd been out of the running since the '50s. Is Joyce out of favour now as well?

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:33:43 AM   
kalikshama


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One of the smartest guy I've known could literally not spell "cat" but was a brilliant programmer. I always wondered how he could master code syntax but not the English language.

quote:

Scnce tlls m tht y cn rd nd cmprhnd ths sntnc vn thgh t cntns n vwls.


Yes, but it was a painful struggle.

quote:

Discounting someone because they dont use the "proper" forms of grammar or punctuation means I would miss out on a whole lot of great information.


I can overlook a few missing apostrophes and your/you're mistakes, but if posts are littered with errors they become painful to read and I'm not a grammar masochist :)

I'll give weight to why the error is there - is it a shortcut or lack of knowledge? For example, at work we IM a lot and often don't start with a capital letter or end with a period. It's a shortcut - we don't use it in our emails. Your skipped apostrophes don't bother me the way someone who improperly adds an apostrophe that indicates a possessive for an actual plural.

Too much abbreviation grates on me - I believe people should save "u" and "r" for texting.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:35:01 AM   
xssve


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I do insist on paragraph breaks. 

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:41:11 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That's a good line of Hemmingway's (and parroting a still better line of Twain's), but it's still a fact that Hemmingway style underwriting has proved a far more pernicious influence on American literature than Faulkner style over writing in the long run. Hemmingway made a point of using exactly the right word rather than rambling around it with a phrase or two, which is the sort of minimalism that works.

Besides, he was a man who took a lot of care and effort in his use of English, so a load of blather about Hemingway isn't really an excuse for somebody who can't spell, doesn't have a clue about grammar, and couldn't write a clear and communicative sentence if their life depended on it, is it? That isn't a style that's been pared of all fripperies and irrelevances, it's just ill mannered contempt for whoever you're trying to talk with, and there's no excuse for that.
Conrad is, I believe, considered the best writer in the English language, Hemmingway is adolescent by comparison, at least in terms of content. Henry James is sometimes mentioned, but even I have difficulty following the Shakespearan complexities of his prose.

I have been compared to Faulkner myself, not necessarily favorably.

In short, there is a distinction between saying something and having something meaningful to say, and while there is certainly a threshold of articulation vs. confusion, intelligence covers both expression and comprehension - also raised is the issue of character, intelligence, per se, doesn't axiomatically correlate with educational level, the world is full of highly educated, insincere, self centered assholes.

Not does character correlate with wealth, but that's another subject.


Conrad? I thought he'd been out of the running since the '50s. Is Joyce out of favour now as well?
I have no idea, I can barely tolerate the company of lit majors these days, and presumably it is they who decide such things. I have a low threshold for snark, a little is funny, but it wears thin quickly, and postmodern lingo is mostly party patter if you ask me.

Plus, I have noticed that they seem to have the shortest attention spans, and the most likely to attempt to correct me for using too many big words (unless it's postmodern noise, "it's all been said, blah, blah"), I'm not a big fan of the whole style over substance ethic, that falls under the heading of "marketing".

< Message edited by xssve -- 1/10/2012 9:42:32 AM >

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:46:44 AM   
Clickofheels


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Do I speak in proper English offline? Indeed!

Do I speak offline and write offline as I write here? I would say a good 90% of the time, yes.

Do my closest friends speak and write in proper English? Absolutely!

And they are the most creative, interesting, well-read, and adventurous people I know!

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:53:02 AM   
Buzzzz


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I believe I am one of those ;) I am not very good at writing (even in my own language) . I always been a "math guy". Can't draw , can't write, I can play music though (maybe because it is more "math" then the other two).


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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 9:59:35 AM   
DominantHunger


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I'm late to this thread... but...

quote:


How do you know how intelligent someone is by posts? They could be utilizing such a program... and be dumber than a box of rocks.



No, failure to use the tools available when you need them makes you dumber than a box of rocks. Using them when you need them makes you at least as smart as the rocks.

It shouldn't matter that this is "just a web forum". If your ideas are not worth it to you to present them reasonably well, then they aren't worth anything to those reading them and please spare us the annoyance of presenting them at all. I don't mean it is unforgivable to let an error or two slip through, but it is a poor reflection on you to not give a shit.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 10:08:51 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I'm almost positive that that is a browser add-on but, I could be wrong. I say this because I don't seem to have that underlining feature on my computer but, I have seen it on others.


What browser do you use? I get the underline in Opera and Firefox but not IE. If you are using IE, perhaps someone else can suggest a plugin. If you are using the first two, let me know if I should check to see what plugins I have.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 10:26:39 AM   
SailingBum


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FR

One the boards I could really give a shit how they type or grammar. Up close and personal if you can't speak correctly to get your point across <read like the national news anchors> I won't give you the time of day.

BadOne

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 10:44:19 AM   
DymndInTheRough


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Nevermind


< Message edited by DymndInTheRough -- 1/10/2012 10:45:02 AM >

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 10:51:33 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
What browser do you use? I get the underline in Opera and Firefox but not IE. If you are using IE, perhaps someone else can suggest a plugin. If you are using the first two, let me know if I should check to see what plugins I have.


I just checked my Firefox and it does, indeed, have the spell-check feature.

Unfortunately, I'm not a huge fan of how this site (and many others) is rendered or how it operates, when using FF.

For example: The text color coding doesn't work the same way, the buttons don't look the same. FF doesn't highlight spaces that I wish to delete (along with text) so that I can double check what I'm doing and not make a mistake that may take me some doing to un-do.

I guess I'll just have to keep using the "edit" feature, when I go back and read one of my posts and realize that I have misspelled "together", yet again. LOL



Peace and comfort,



Michael


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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 11:05:57 AM   
Epytropos


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In my experience browser spellcheck features are dodgy at best. False positives unless you import a decent dictionary, lots of missed negatives. Better than nothing, but only marginally.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 11:09:28 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos
In my experience browser spellcheck features are dodgy at best. False positives unless you import a decent dictionary, lots of missed negatives. Better than nothing, but only marginally.


Yes! I think that I did that with IE, years ago (I could be wrong, I have an awful memory issue). I think, because I owned the full MS Office suite, I was able to copy the dictionary from Word into some kind of browser "add-on" or some such and had spell-check, that way.

It doesn't matter. I have an American Heritage dictionary within reach and I have yahoo dictionary (also American heritage, interestingly enough) saved to favorites.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 11:22:06 AM   
Snort


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's very possible for someone to be intelligent and not a good writer but it is highly unlikely that a person who writes impeccably is riding the short bus.



On the surface this seems right, but you need only read Politics and Religion posts to realize the even the brightest, most erudite and enlightened people can devolve into insufferably dull boobs in no time at all. And one-track minds can have impeccable grammar.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 11:29:11 AM   
ArmoredTeddyBear


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I communicate much better in written form than I do verbal, so no, I don't actually talk this way with my friends. In person it's a lot harder for me to find the words to accurately get the point across. It gets very frustrating because I know what I want to say, I just can't get it out. When writing I tend to be quite verbose, and I'm sure that some people might get the idea that I never shut up, but honestly, I really am a lot quieter in person.

I do tend to be a little more judgemental towards people that mangle the English language, but I don't necessarily use it to judge intelligence. I have known, and currently know, lots of very intelligent people that just struggle with the written word. What tends to irritate me the most is someone that doesn't seem to have a clue about even the most basic use of proper grammar. I remember one message in particular that I'd gotten several months ago. It was aweful. A 4th grader could have written better than that. English wasn't his second language either. I realize that there may be some genuine reasons, like learning disabilities, or English being a second language, that make it difficult for some reason, but for the most part I feel that there is no excuse for not having at least a very basic understanding of proper grammar.

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 11:42:00 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
I have no idea, I can barely tolerate the company of lit majors these days, and presumably it is they who decide such things.

Nope, it's more the amassed history of critical writing that decides that one. Undergraduates have fuck all to do with that. (Which is as well: there'd be lit modules that were just Stephen King's shorter novels and Captain Underpants if it was the lit majors' call...)

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 11:50:44 AM   
Ninebelowzero


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Sorry what's the thread about again?

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 12:31:24 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I'll give weight to why the error is there - is it a shortcut or lack of knowledge? For example, at work we IM a lot and often don't start with a capital letter or end with a period. It's a shortcut - we don't use it in our emails. Your skipped apostrophes don't bother me the way someone who improperly adds an apostrophe that indicates a possessive for an actual plural.

Too much abbreviation grates on me - I believe people should save "u" and "r" for texting.


Funny thing, I always use periods and capitals when texting. And I wont even respond to a text from family if they use "r" or "u".

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RE: Intelligence vs writing - 1/10/2012 12:35:01 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

On the surface this seems right, but you need only read Politics and Religion posts to realize the even the brightest, most erudite and enlightened people can devolve into insufferably dull boobs in no time at all. And one-track minds can have impeccable grammar.


You need to read more boards if you believe this only occurs on the P&R threads.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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