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RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/2/2006 2:01:40 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'd be interested to know what people perceive their reasons are for being submissive - AND what that does to your mental health.

Even though I do not call myself submissive; I am a masochistic bottom; I have never thought to analyze my reasons for being so. I just am. As for what it does to my mental health; I feel more healthy mentally, physically, and emotionally after a good hard session. So, I guess, it picks me up and puts me in one hell of a good mood

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RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/2/2006 2:11:15 AM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

Thank You, Thank you! BrattyBottomRN and Dusty. I am bi-polar too. Well sometimes they say the manic-depressive, all depends on which shrink you ask, but it doesnt have a bloody thing to do with my submission. My childhood was not the most pleasant thing, but that doesnt really affect it either. I have been trying to take care of someone from the get go. The desire to please just screams out sometimes. My submission just lets be me. It is a natural state.

Edited to add gush.. I have been open about this bit quirk of mine here than I generally am. I dont know why. Maybe because no one has done the, oh my god you are crazy, thing. After 15 years that is pretty nice. Thank you..

love and light
lee


Since I haven't gotten off my lazy ass and gotten that last name changed to either Kettle or Pot (I am a switch, so can't really make up my mind yet LOL), I'm the last person to judge someone as being crazy just because they are BP/MD.  If I say it, I've generally got proof to back it up.  Besides, as my mother always told me growing up:

"The only place you will find normal on a regular basis is on the washing machine."

Besides, crazy people get the really fun drugs. =)


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Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to leakylee)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/2/2006 2:14:21 AM   
leakylee


Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		hehe and Amen.. besides my Daddy told me that we had an excuse. I choice to belive him. lala

lee


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/2/2006 5:30:03 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If someone is abusing you then you should get out. Abusers use the lifestyle as a mask for abuse, and I do not see it as intrisically more abusive than anything else.



The problem with getting out is that the abusive relationship builds up slowly over time.  I have heard abuse survivors talk quite a bit about being unable to see the way out in her/his mind.  Some have an epiphany and go "Gee, I dont need to live like this," and leave.  Some do not.

I usually consider abusive behavior to be something which is intended to beat the other person down, either emotionally, spiritually, or physically, and make them feel less than they are.

The power exchange in this lifestyle makes many people involved in it to feel more than they are, which would tend to differentiate it from abusive relationships.

I think it is like most things in life.  There is a set of people who enjoy BDSM and D/s.  There is a set of people who have mental disorders.  There is a set of people who exist in both groups.  Being in one group does not imply that one is in the other.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

p.s. on a side note, I am looking for a T-shirt I saw the other day which reads "If you act like a mental patient, expect to be treated like one."


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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/2/2006 9:26:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Sinergy,

I absolutely agree.. we could draw a Venn diagram to show this concept of mentally well vanilla, mentally ill vanilla, mentally well subs, mentally ill subs we would see an overlap...and that the ratio would illustrate your point nicely.

I did not mean to insinuate it is easy to leave an abuser, but in the end you leave or stay... everyone has that ultimate choice.





< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/2/2006 9:27:41 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/6/2006 7:17:32 PM   
melnkolybabydoll


Posts: 39
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

I don't think wanting to submit to another necessarily is any different than wanting to dominate someone.  However, it does seem that the assumption often is that something is "inherently" wrong with someone who willingly gives up control to another.  I don't think either side of this has anything, in general, to do with mental health. 

Are there mentally ill people in the lifestyle?  If statistics bear out then one would assume that the same statistics apply inside the lifestyle as within the vanilla world. 



My husband and i almost lost one another years ago because we bought into the "co-dependency is wrong" theory.  When you each have needs (non-abusive and not *totally* dysfunctional) within a relationship, which are mutually fulfilled, how can anyone say it's wrong?  It wasn't until we gave in to our hearts' desires that we truly learned how to love and trust one another.

(in reply to sharainks)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/6/2006 8:01:55 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: melnkolybabydoll



My husband and i almost lost one another years ago because we bought into the "co-dependency is wrong" theory.  When you each have needs (non-abusive and not *totally* dysfunctional) within a relationship, which are mutually fulfilled, how can anyone say it's wrong?  It wasn't until we gave in to our hearts' desires that we truly learned how to love and trust one another.


What she said.

(in reply to melnkolybabydoll)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/6/2006 8:36:49 PM   
MistressTheaZ


Posts: 155
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting question. I am not submissive, but from My perspective as a Dominant, there have been subs who
certainly gave Me pause when considering engaging them. I, nor anyone, am not one to judge another's reasons for participating in the Lifestyle, but the choice to engage them, based upon these reasons, still resided in My court.
 
I have met submissives who, upon getting to know them in-depth, made Me question whether the degradation they sought was a self-destructive tendency from past abuse, molestation or other similar issues of pain and betrayal. I've always known when I've met someone like this...because they are one of the few I am oddly hesitant to happily wreak sadistic abuse upon. *snort*. It felt like continuation of the pattern they have come to know emotionally, and are dependent upon as a result....and it just felt wrong, IMO.
 
I was saddened to see people so broken inside that the only emotions they sought to manifest - or were capable of - involved sadness, pain, degradation, humiliation, a lowered self-worth, and a feeling of general worthlessness. As a Dominant, I always feel a great responsibility of course to the emotional, mental and physical well-being of My charges, but as they say, find salvation not in man. I can bring solace; I can offer support; I can lend strength; I can earn trust. However, I cannot bring peace of mind to calm the troubled emotional waters running deeper than the connection We have; this must come from within, I believe.
 
With each, I asked they go to counseling regularly as a condition of service. We then worked on introducing and incorporating a more healthy, balanced style of TPE to build back a sense of self-worth, renewed interest and hopefulness going forward, and a better emotional skillset in general. I was pleased to call them friends long after We discontinued the D/s portion of Our relationships.
 
JMO.

~Thea

(in reply to LTRsubNW)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 8:34:39 AM   
MaggieDoll


Posts: 20
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		I dont think that a BDSM relationship has to be all that different from any other relationship when it comes to mental health issues.  Ideally, when getting into a relationship, you should be in as good a place as possible, but how many people resolve ALL of their issues, or completly put their life on hold untill everything is honkey dorey?  all parties involved should be open about any past issues that could interfere with the relationship, and it's up to the people involved if these issues will make a relationship impossible.  nobody is perfect, or has everything completly together, and its a pretty individual thing what issues the dominant and submissive are willing to accept in the relationship.  Is there anyone who can completly resolve problems from their past?  Who has never had a hurtful relationship in the past?

(in reply to leakylee)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 10:03:26 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: melnkolybabydoll

My husband and i almost lost one another years ago because we bought into the "co-dependency is wrong" theory.  When you each have needs (non-abusive and not *totally* dysfunctional) within a relationship, which are mutually fulfilled, how can anyone say it's wrong?  It wasn't until we gave in to our hearts' desires that we truly learned how to love and trust one another.


sounds like confuse .... Inter-dependency  with co-dependency.  Yes Co-dependency is unhealthy and is destructive.  But what you just described is not co-dependency... it's inter-dependency!

when you have needs within a relationship which are "mutually" fullfilled.. you talking Inter-dependeny  NOT Co-dependency

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to melnkolybabydoll)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 11:27:50 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		I have always felt that anyone - regardless of chosen role in life and relationships - has to be whole in and of themselves as an individual before they're ready to get involved with someone else.  A person either being mentally/emotionally healthy - or capable of maintaining some sort of self control over whatever mental health issues they happen to suffer - is essential to being in a position to interact with others on an ongoing basis.
 
I don't submit easily or readily to anyone on the best of days.  It has to be earned as a Privilage - not something that is their's by right - and can be lost much more easily than it can be gained.  When I do submit to someone, because they HAVE worked their buns off to earn the privilage of expecting obedience out of me, it doesn't change who I am intrinsically or make me suddenly stop using all of myself.  Any dominant that I would find worthwhile to submit to is going to be appalled at the concept of me no longer thinking and doing for myself, or being a whole and capable person in my own right, simply because I give them final choice and the power of veto over what I necessarily Want to do.  He's going to be even MORE appalled at the idea that my self image would become less than it is from his involvement in my life - and strive to push me in directions to make that self image Improve in whatever way he could.  I still have opinions which I voice, I'm still a strong person in my own right - he compliments that, rather than substituting for it.  If he doesn't, then ... well... I get out and look elsewhere.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 11:37:35 AM   
BrattyBottomRN


Posts: 73
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline 		Let's hear it for the MENTALL ILL!  WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!

Hahahaha!  Man, yeah we're crazy, but I'd say no crazier than anyone else.  We just have a harder time staying on one task for very long hahaha....

Honestly I find the BDSM sessions help keep me under control.  I have that constant reminder that I am owned, it really helps keep me level.  In a sick, twisted sort of way.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 11:54:38 AM   
spectreandnectre


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline 		The only psychological implications i have had from my submission is the fact that i have ALWAYS felt that i needed to please E/everyone.  i had to take the time to reevaluate that and realize that i do not have to please the world and there are only a few people who's opinions really matter.  If their opinions vary then i have accepted that oh well someone is not going to be happy, what can i do.

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"When I see you, the world stops as if the only purpose in life was for me to please you."

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 12:05:11 PM   
trippingdaisy


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrattyBottomRN

Let's hear it for the MENTALL ILL!  WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!

Hahahaha!  Man, yeah we're crazy, but I'd say no crazier than anyone else.  We just have a harder time staying on one task for very long hahaha....


Hahaha, this made me laugh quite a lot.

i am also bipolar. i've had so many issues with chemical imbalances and emotional/psychiatric breakdowns that it's hard to believe i've come as far as i have.

Two things have helped me get where i am: Lamictal (a medication that has so, so very few side effects. i LOVE it!), and my submission. i honestly don't think it's the submission itself, but rather, the fact that it makes me feel whole, happy, and those two things allow me to be more mentally stable.

That, and if i start getting a little too self-destructive, He can tell me that i'm not allowed to be. He owns me, after all. i can't just do what my body what i want.

(in reply to BrattyBottomRN)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 12:19:56 PM   
BrattyBottomRN


Posts: 73
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline 		Very well put!  Very interesting way to look at it.  GREAT way to look at it actually.

_____________________________

Nurses can stick it to ya' and make ya' like it.

Don't piss off the woman who is about to jab the 14 g needle into your arm.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 2:45:37 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		ykm steven.. mental health is only an issue when your bottom thinks there's a chimp following them around sucking on their little toe

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 2:47:31 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		Now for a slightly harder question... Is the dominant responsible for the mental health of the submissive is she was already broken when the relationship began, especially when the dominant didn't know this to begin with?

Personally, I say yes and no, and the strength of either answer is dependant on the situation.  But that's just me...


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 2:57:47 PM   
brattysub4


Posts: 189
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline 		Dustyn i want to talk or relay a bit on that i being a sub am broken as you put it but i most always tell or relay to one that may take me on.i dont think its so much a question of responsbility on his part he has already accepted that if he knew ahead of time and still chose to take her or him on.so then i think the better question is why would one suffering from an illness that is much apart of there life hide that from a pending partner.but again i am not sure it belongs here in this post.but i can see your question and i would say either he or she chooses to take it on by continuing with the partner or decide they cant and dismiss them .
ps sorry for mis spelling

< Message edited by brattysub4 -- 6/7/2006 3:00:48 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 3:00:04 PM   
melnkolybabydoll


Posts: 39
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		[/quote]
when you have needs within a relationship which are "mutually" fullfilled.. you talking Inter-dependeny  NOT Co-dependency
[/quote]

In my experience, professionals (therapists, and such) do not differentiate between inter- and co-dependency.  They tend to categorize them as one and the same.  They then try to convince you that what you have is unhealthy, when in fact it is the very glue which holds you together as a couple.  Sadly, we bought into this philosophy for a while.  i'm certain there are professionals whose opinions don't match the widely-accepted norm.  i just haven't found them, yet.  Thank you for sharing with me that there is a separation of the two.  Now i can feel "perfectly normal".

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Mental health of a sub - 6/7/2006 3:26:06 PM   
trippingdaisy


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

Now for a slightly harder question... Is the dominant responsible for the mental health of the submissive is she was already broken when the relationship began, especially when the dominant didn't know this to begin with?



Great question. :)

Personally, i think it's the responsibility of ANY partner, in any relationship, D/s, M/s, or vanilla, to point out to a potential life companion that there is a history that might pop up again.

That being said, i think it depends on if the Dominant in the relationship knows prior to entering the relationship. If so, and He or She decided to continue, then yes, because They were aware of what They were getting into. However, if the sub kept it secret, then...well, it sounds harsh, but it's perfectly within the rights of the Dom to end the relationship. i personally don't know many Doms that would, especially if They care at all for the sub.

It's a very subjective thing, and it could change from person to person.

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 40
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