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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/29/2012 11:35:35 AM   
xxblushesxx


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He takes C and zinc also when he starts feeling puny, but has had to take them more often this season than normal.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/29/2012 12:58:38 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

The one thing I absolutely hate the taste of but still take it daily, is black strap molasses. I spoonful followed by a glass of water and then vigorouslybrushing my teeth.


Really? I don't mind blackstrap molasses at all. I warm 8 oz of water, and 1 T molasses, and mix my powdered vitamin C in it.

The molasses is for anemia. I also take ferrous gluconate, as my iron levels were perilously low when they were tested last fall. I hear one can expect constipation with irons pills but as I take vitamin C "to bowel tolerance," that's not an issue.

A note on the RDA (recommended daily allowance) - these are set to prevent deficiency diseases such as scurvy. So while the RDA for Vit C is 75 mg for women (up from 60 in 2000) I take it to bowel tolerance which for me is 4,000 mg when I am well and much more when I am sick.

I periodically test my supplements to see if they are working and if issues return after a few months I go back on them.

I do find that different formats are absorbed better - melatonin should be sublingual, for example.

My C is buffered with calcium.

I had a problem with the dreaded Niacin Flush with B vitamins until I switched to Country Life Coenzyme B-Complex caps. I've heard good things about the liquid form, too.

I couldn't get a consensus for best form of Vitamin D in my thread here so went with liquid Carlson Labs, Super D Omega-3, Lemon Flavor.

I was very, very sick in 1999 and received high doses of vitamins intravenously and felt amazing afterwards.


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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/29/2012 6:38:50 PM   
DesFIP


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They make gummy vitamins for adults. My kid takes them (she's of age). But I have to get on her case to remember to put the cap back on as they get hard otherwise.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/30/2012 5:23:59 AM   
kalikshama


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I'm frankly a bit horrified at the idea of gummy vitamins but see that the Vitafusion brand at least does not use artificial colors or flavors.

However, their Vitamin C RDA is 12 years out of date (it's based on 60 mg, not the new 75 for women, and again that is merely sufficient to prevent deficiency diseases like scurvy and insufficient to promote optimal health.)

Their Vitamin D "nutrition fact" is wrong as well - they list 800 IU as providing 200% of the RDA when the RDA is 600 mg.

These are just the ones I know off the top of my head but this brand now has no credibility with me so I'm not going to keep going.




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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/30/2012 9:14:46 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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It's the RDA's that have limited credibility with me. Nutrition is like pediatrics, run by fads and fashion. Next year it will be something else entirely.

It takes one hell of a deficiency to get a deficiency disease, and that's not a likely outcome for anyone in the western world that has internet access.

(unless they subsist ENTIRELy on cheesy poofs and diet dew)

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/30/2012 11:17:18 AM   
kitkat105


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's the RDA's that have limited credibility with me. Nutrition is like pediatrics, run by fads and fashion. Next year it will be something else entirely.

It takes one hell of a deficiency to get a deficiency disease, and that's not a likely outcome for anyone in the western world that has internet access.

(unless they subsist ENTIRELy on cheesy poofs and diet dew)


I agree with this. If you are mostly healthy with a mostly balanced diet, your body (the parasite that it is) will usually figure it all out. But with that said, there is a time & a place for all supplements under the direction of a physician.

If you do not have a deficiency (ie. a need for) a particular vitamin, excess will just be excreted.


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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/30/2012 6:53:05 PM   
stickbreaker


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When I did massage therapy training, they told us that essential oils rubbed into the skin also had beneficial effects. I am not sure if this could be another way of working on improving his health, but at the very least it could maybe make him feel better. Just a suggestion. I am not an expert. I think that a weakened state of physical health is connected to some stress in the mental state. I wish you luck and hope your HM's health improves soon.


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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/30/2012 10:58:25 PM   
sincelo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's the RDA's that have limited credibility with me. Nutrition is like pediatrics, run by fads and fashion. Next year it will be something else entirely.

It takes one hell of a deficiency to get a deficiency disease, and that's not a likely outcome for anyone in the western world that has internet access.

(unless they subsist ENTIRELy on cheesy poofs and diet dew)

I have to say that this is untrue. We are all running on deficiencies. Our food which is mass produced, genetically modified and processed and harvested thousands of miles and weeks from where it will be consumed is inadequate to maintain optimal levels of nutrition. Ever wonder why we are sicker and have more incidences of chronic disease? Well okay it is at least a contributing factor. The medical doctors aren't usually up on preventative medicine like vitamins as they are on curative medicine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJme9yjLqU

This is an excellent documentary that everyone should watch if they are interested about what they are putting in their bodies.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/31/2012 7:39:49 AM   
kalikshama


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Timeline of the Standard American Diet

The Standard American Diet, also referred to as the Western pattern diet, looked a lot different a few hundred years ago. People mostly consumed fruits, vegetables, wild grains and seeds, fish and occasionally meat. Today many Americans gorge on sugars, refined flour and processed food. This selection of events tracks the devolution of the American diet

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/31/2012 7:43:18 AM   
kalikshama


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Pet food has devolved as well:

What's in your pet's diet... and why should you care!

"Since I have graduated from veterinary school in 1965, I've noticed a general deterioration in pet health. I believe that the chemical additives in pet food play a major part in that decline."
Richard Pitcaim DVM

"When the moist foods came out, we figured they must have a very strong preservative because they needed no refrigeration. Many of them do have a very strong preservative-formalin. Formalin is such a good preservative, in fact, that undertakers use quite a lot of it."
Thomas A.Chew Newland, DVM

"Every time a pet eats another bowl of high-sugar pet food, he is being brought that much closer to diabetes hypoglycemia, overweight, nervousness, cataracts, allergy- and death."
R. Geoffrey Broderick, DVM

"Do you know what is in meat meal, the major constituent of dry dog food? .. Urine, fecal matter, hair, pus, meat (from animals, afflicted) with cancer and T.B., etc."
Wendell O. Belfield. DVM

"What you feed your animals should be the most important consideration you make."
Lisa Newman, CN

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/31/2012 2:30:10 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Sugar is in EVERYTHING processed!! I don't eat a lot of processed or packaged food, junk food is a occasional treat. I had to bring the salad to a party once, and I was asked to bring "French or Catalina". I did NOT bring the one whose first ingredient was CORN SYRUP. Blech!!

It's hard to eat properly, and the lower income you are, the harder it is to even FIND proper fresh food.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/31/2012 2:33:14 PM   
LaTigresse


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Not to mention salt. There is way too much salt in most stuff.

And yes, we are also feeding our pets wrong. Now, over half of the nation's cats and dogs are obese and will suffer similar ills as humans do.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/31/2012 2:34:27 PM >


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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/31/2012 2:38:58 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Salt!! OMG. When they came out with Turkey Helper briefly (maybe 20 yrs ago?) I got a box for me and my grandmother, made the ground turkey, doctored it with cayenne... I could feel my hands swelling!! Dang it was some good!!

She loved it too!

I've never kept carnivorous pets, but I am not surprised that the new "natural" foods are the rage. I wish that our livestock were fed properly too---we are what we eat, eh?

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 1/31/2012 3:48:34 PM   
needlesandpins


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the body can only absorb so much, and in fact in a healthy person can get everything it needs from a good diet. anything it doesn't need just ends up down the loo. simple.

now then........

our elders ate unprocessed, organic foods. however, what our elders also ate was animal fats. there was no such thing as fat free processed crap. they ate dairy that was full fat too. animals carried alot more fat than they do now but it was all eaten in moderation. the trouble these days is that people are so busy telling us not to eat this that and the other that we are actually missing out on things we DO actually need. we need saturated fats to actually help our system work.

as for our soils being depleated of nutrients; that is utter tosh. our farmers spend thousands a year putting nitrogen back into the soil, be it with green fertilisers (easpecially lagumes) or nitrogen phosphorus. they also use alot of organis matter for spreading....at least here in the uk anyway. the problem comes from genetically modified foods created for mass production rather than nutrition and taste. even so, you should still be able to get everything you need from a good diet.

b vitamins...eat some meat, especially beef liver.....something else our elders knew, eat everything of an animal because it's all got a use. our system is not designed to work on vegetation alone which is why vegans have to use suppliments and fortified foods. we need b12 to help break down fats and this can also be found in oily fish which is a trebble whammy as you get your omega oils and vit d from this too.

however, for vits d and e for the nervous system, for god sake get outside. our bodies synthesis these vits from the sun. fruits and veg are much better when picked while warm from the sun too. vitamin d is needed to help with calcium but you also need phosphorus at a ratio of 2/1 calcium to phosphorus.

vitamin c and b vits are water soluable and not stored in the body fats. you need them everyday. so if you take more than your body can absorb you are just flushing it away. antacids will also prevent correct absorbtion of b vits with need stomach acids to break down the proteins.

so eat cereals like oats and bran, fruits but more veg, oily fish, dairy, meat (especially liver), and get outside and exercise (impact exercise to help create healthy bones).

really, unless your doctor suggests it, you know whether you are eating crap or not, if not then it's highly unlikely you need suppliments. also consider that most suppliments are synthesised. yep, more crap to bombard your body with.

needles

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 2/3/2012 5:28:59 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

as for our soils being depleated of nutrients; that is utter tosh. our farmers spend thousands a year putting nitrogen back into the soil, be it with green fertilisers (easpecially lagumes) or nitrogen phosphorus. they also use alot of organis matter for spreading....at least here in the uk anyway.


Here in the US, conventional farming kills the soil with the rampant use of pesticides and herbicides. And it lasts - DDT was still found in 22% of food items sampled 30 years after it was banned.

I don't eat root vegetables unless they are organic or come from small farms that do not use this system:

Playing God in the Garden

Danny Forsyth laid out the dismal economics of potato farming for me one sweltering morning at the coffee shop in downtown Jerome, Idaho. Forsyth, 60, is a slight blue-eyed man with a small gray ponytail; he farms 3,000 acres of potatoes, corn and wheat, and he spoke about agricultural chemicals like a man desperate to kick a bad habit. ”None of us would use them if we had any choice,” he said glumly.

I asked him to walk me through a season’s regimen. It typically begins early in the spring with a soil fumigant; to control nematodes, many potato farmers douse their fields with a chemical toxic enough to kill every trace of microbial life in the soil. Then, at planting, a systemic insecticide (like Thimet) is applied to the soil; this will be absorbed by the young seedlings and, for several weeks, will kill any insect that eats their leaves. After planting, Forsyth puts down an herbicide — Sencor or Eptam — to ”clean” his field of all weeds. When the potato seedlings are six inches tall, an herbicide may be sprayed a second time to control weeds.

Idaho farmers like Forsyth farm in vast circles defined by the rotation of a pivot irrigation system, typically 135 acres to a circle; I’d seen them from 30,000 feet flying in, a grid of verdant green coins pressed into a desert of scrubby brown. Pesticides and fertilizers are simply added to the irrigation system, which on Forsyth’s farm draws most of its water from the nearby Snake River. Along with their water, Forsyth’s potatoes may receive 10 applications of chemical fertilizer during the growing season. Just before the rows close — when the leaves of one row of plants meet those of the next — he begins spraying Bravo, a fungicide, to control late blight, one of the biggest threats to the potato crop. (Late blight, which caused the Irish potato famine, is an airborne fungus that turns stored potatoes into rotting mush.) Blight is such a serious problem that the E.P.A. currently allows farmers to spray powerful fungicides that haven’t passed the usual approval process. Forsyth’s potatoes will receive eight applications of fungicide.

Twice each summer, Forsyth hires a crop duster to spray for aphids. Aphids are harmless in themselves, but they transmit the leafroll virus, which in Russet Burbank potatoes causes net necrosis, a brown spotting that will cause a processor to reject a whole crop. It happened to Forsyth last year. ”I lost 80,000 bags” — they’re a hundred pounds each — ”to net necrosis,” he said. ”Instead of getting $4.95 a bag, I had to take $2 a bag from the dehydrator, and I was lucky to get that.” Net necrosis is a purely cosmetic defect; yet because big buyers like McDonald’s believe (with good reason) that we don’t like to see brown spots in our fries, farmers like Danny Forsyth must spray their fields with some of the most toxic chemicals in use, including an organophosphate called Monitor.

”Monitor is a deadly chemical,” Forsyth said. ”I won’t go into a field for four or five days after it’s been sprayed — even to fix a broken pivot.” That is, he would sooner lose a whole circle to drought than expose himself or an employee to Monitor, which has been found to cause neurological damage.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 2/3/2012 5:35:13 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

in fact in a healthy person can get everything it needs from a good diet. anything it doesn't need just ends up down the loo.


I do have a healthy diet and tested deficient for Vitamin D in October despite spending lots of time outside in the summer - swimming, walking, gardening.

quote:

also consider that most suppliments are synthesised.


Right - be educated, learn which brands you can trust, learn what's synthetic and what's not. I've known to avoid synthetic vitamin E for 13 years.

Natural vs. Synthetic Vitamin E

On a supplement label, natural vitamin E is listed as d-alpha tocopherol, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate, or d-alpha tocopheryl succinate. In contrast, synthetic forms of vitamin E are labeled with a dl- prefix.

...Researchers have found that natural vitamin E assimilates far better than synthetic versions. Specific binding and transport proteins produced in the liver select the natural d-alpha form of vitamin E and largely ignore all other forms.

In one experiment, Japanese researchers alternately gave natural and synthetic vitamin E to seven healthy young women. It took 300 mg synthetic vitamin E to equal the blood levels achieved by a 100-mg dose of natural vitamin E. [1]

In other studies at East Tennessee State University, Johnson City, researchers gave a variety of subjects either 30 mg/day or 300 mg/day vitamin E. Each supplement contained half-natural and half-synthetic vitamin E. Both forms were chemically labeled to distinguish one from other vitamin sources.

In blood levels, natural vitamin E increased twice as much as the synthetic form in healthy subjects and pregnant women. In umbilical cords, natural vitamin E levels were three times higher than synthetic vitamin levels.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 2/3/2012 6:15:06 PM   
kalikshama


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Oh, and the study that concluded:

quote:

Selenium or vitamin E, alone or in combination at the doses and formulations used, did not prevent prostate cancer in this population of relatively healthy men.

used synthetic vitamin E.

(It took me a while to sort that due to the Alpha symbol, but the study used all rac-α-tocopheryl acetate, aka all rac-alpha-tocopheryl acetate, aka all-racemic alpha tocopheryl acetate.)

Synthetic all-racemic

Synthetic vitamin E derived from petroleum products is manufactured as all-racemic alpha tocopheryl acetate with a mixture of eight stereoisomers. In this mixture, one alpha-tocopherol molecule in eight molecules are in the form of RRR-alpha-tocopherol (12.5% of the total).[20]

The 8-isomer all-rac vitamin E is always marked on labels simply as dl-tocopherol or dl-tocopheryl acetate, even though it is (if fully written out) actually dl,dl,dl-tocopherol.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 2/3/2012 6:22:40 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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That's scary stuff.

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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 2/3/2012 7:13:55 PM   
hausboy


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I actually have been taking a multi-vitamin at the suggestion of my doctor---I spend so many hours indoors these days that my vitamin D is low.  Because I'm unable to swallow tablets (pills), I take the gummi vitamins for adults.  They are actually TOO tasty--I have to resist taking more than the required dosage.  Easy to chew, no aftertaste.  (I love anything gummi)   Haven't run another set of labs yet so I don't know if they are working or not.



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RE: Vitamins You Actually Absorb - 2/4/2012 6:11:03 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

That's scary stuff.


Before the human study Vitamin E, researchers had studied synthetic vs natural in livestock many times and always concluded that natural is better. So the use of synthetic in the human study makes me agree "it was designed to fail in order to protect the financial interests of the cancer industry, which thrives by providing very expensive toxic drugs, radiation, and surgery."

So much is derived from petroleum > petrochemicals that it's a topic for a new thread. Artificial fragrances didn't surprise me, but distilled white vinegar did. (And it won't be labeled as such.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrochemical#Petrochemicals_products

Adhesives and sealants
Agrochemicals
Construction chemicals
Corrosion control chemicals
Cosmetics raw materials
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Flavourings, fragrances, food additives
Specialty and industrial chemicals
Specialty and industrial gases
Inks, dyes and printing supplies
Packaging, bottles, and containers
Paint, coatings, and resins
Polymer additives
Specialty and life sciences chemicals
Surfactants and cleaning agents

Health care
Pharmaceutical

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